http://msn.foxsports.com/college-footba ... ers-012814

Too many bad outcomes in this scenario to even imagine it could be successful. Heard a discussion of this on the radio with a little more detail. The proposed union would only cover FBS football programs and D1 basketball programs. Imagine the nightmare for an FCS football school whose basketball players are part of the union and the football players are not. Just one of numerous unintended consequences I can see arising if this thing gets legs. I don't believe there is any chance of the NLRB certifying this, but in today's crazy world, who really knows?

Where will the money come from to support the union?

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/308643/

An interesting read and a good history lesson on the impact of TV and commercial influences on the NCAA sports. The NCAA, college football and basketball coaches, and athletic administrators all seem to be benefiting very nicely from the growing commercialization of college athletics, while little has changed for the athletes. You get the feeling things could start to unwind as some of these pending court cases work their way through the system. At what point does a judge call B.S. on the NCAA and decide that the term "student-athlete" is a ruse and players are really representatives and employees of the school? At what point does a judge decide that college athletes should have control of, and be able to benefit from the use of, their own image? The thought that athletes are asked to sign away rights to their own image in perpetuity is hard to fathom. Apparently Oscar Robertson isn't so crazy about the idea either, with the realization that his image is still used after all of these years.

As to the question, where will the money come from... it looks like a number of schools are running $100MM sports enterprises. This equates to conference revenues of over $1B for the SEC and for the Big 10. Wow!.

http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/ ... t-revenues

DoubleA wrote:http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/308643/

An interesting read and a good history lesson on the impact of TV and commercial influences on the NCAA sports. The NCAA, college football and basketball coaches, and athletic administrators all seem to be benefiting very nicely from the growing commercialization of college athletics, while little has changed for the athletes. You get the feeling things could start to unwind as some of these pending court cases work their way through the system. At what point does a judge call B.S. on the NCAA and decide that the term "student-athlete" is a ruse and players are really representatives and employees of the school? At what point does a judge decide that college athletes should have control of, and be able to benefit from the use of, their own image? The thought that athletes are asked to sign away rights to their own image in perpetuity is hard to fathom. Apparently Oscar Robertson isn't so crazy about the idea either, with the realization that his image is still used after all of these years.

As to the question, where will the money come from... it looks like a number of schools are running $100MM sports enterprises. This equates to conference revenues of over $1B for the SEC and for the Big 10. Wow!.

http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/ ... t-revenues

I am not fond of paying college athletics, but the revenue is coming in and the atheletes deserve a say in matters. It may not be a typical CBA, but given the $ involved, they need someone on their side, and they need a voice. Now with so many schools running a deficit in athletics I don't care to see other students paying more in fees, but cut some of the coaches salaries and maybe some of the AD staff as well. Some non-profits with unpaid staff have CBAs. There are models out there that don't always involve money but still allows for procedures to be in place to give a voice to various parties.

Yes the schools are making the money but if if the players unionize. I would assume that they will need to pay some sort of dues to the union. Where will that money come from? The players would be asked to use stipend money to pay for monthly dues.

Eventually student athletes won't exist. Students will be accepted to a school as a student and then hired as an employee to be an athlete and represent the school. If they are going to pay athletes, which they will its only a matter of time, then they schools should remove the idea of an athletic scholarship and just give the athletes a set salary for each sport. The NCAA could set the standards. The athletes would have to pay for their schooling on their own whether through the money paid to them by the school or through other means. The NCAA could set up percentages even where say you get paid tuition price + 30%= player salary for that seasons contract. Each season it could go up a certain percentage. It could keep the prices of players equal across the boards to allow smaller schools to still compete.

My biggest fear is if they ever let the salary of players become a free for all like major league baseball has become. THAT will be the end of college athletics as we know it.

None of this applies to us. We are a NC public school in a Right to Work state. There are long standing laws about state employees unionizing that will prevent this as it currently stands. As it stands even if they were successful it would only apply to private schools (Yes SmallCon we are looking at you).

appgrouch wrote:None of this applies to us. We are a NC public school in a Right to Work state. There are long standing laws about state employees unionizing that will prevent this as it currently stands. As it stands even if they were successful it would only apply to private schools (Yes SmallCon we are looking at you).

NCAE? You can start unions in NC.

I don't believe you can prevent people from forming a union, freedom of association. The law, however, can prevent collective bargaining.

appdaze wrote:

appgrouch wrote:None of this applies to us. We are a NC public school in a Right to Work state. There are long standing laws about state employees unionizing that will prevent this as it currently stands. As it stands even if they were successful it would only apply to private schools (Yes SmallCon we are looking at you).

NCAE? You can start unions in NC.

Not a union, it is an employment association. Doesn't have the same powers.
There are some unions in NC, but no one can be required to join as a condition of employment.

hapapp wrote:I don't believe you can prevent people from forming a union, freedom of association. The law, however, can prevent collective bargaining.

I think to be an "union" you have to be able to have collective bargaining.

Virginia is a right to work state but we have teachers who are members of AFT rather than the NEA. You can't legally prevent people from joining a union. However, the law can prevent the union from representing you if you are a public employee. I'm pretty sure the State Employees Association of North Carolina is a union but does not have bargaining rights. I believe it is a member of the SEIU.

The point of my original post, as it stand right now, even if the NWern union went through, it would not effect App.

The idea that I read today that was more interesting was that if the major sport athletes became "employees" and you basically created sub-"departments" of football, basketball, and baseball, would that take those "employees" and "departments" out of the equation for Title IX issues?

appgrouch wrote:The point of my original post, as it stand right now, even if the NWern union went through, it would not effect App.

The idea that I read today that was more interesting was that if the major sport athletes became "employees" and you basically created sub-"departments" of football, basketball, and baseball, would that take those "employees" and "departments" out of the equation for Title IX issues?

My opinion I'd have to say yes because as employers everything now falls under the equal opportunity employment laws. So I would think theoretically that if a school only wanted say girls/guys basketball, baseball, softball, and football while having nothing else I would think they would be allowed to do that as they are choosing what sports to employ.

What a disaster. If they become employees then tuition and any salary also becomes taxable income. The schools will also have to pay FICA and unemployment insurance. Then hiring and firing would also come under employment laws. During an in-home you better be careful of what questions you ask. They are no longer a potential student they are a potential employee. If they are in a union and they are smoking weed can you fire them? Oh baby they are looking at big problems. If they don't like what the coach is doing that day do they run to their union rep?

bcoach wrote:What a disaster. If they become employees then tuition and any salary also becomes taxable income. The schools will also have to pay FICA and unemployment insurance. Then hiring and firing would also come under employment laws. During an in-home you better be careful of what questions you ask. They are no longer a potential student they are a potential employee. If they are in a union and they are smoking weed can you fire them? Oh baby they are looking at big problems. If they don't like what the coach is doing that day do they run to their union rep?

It will just be minor league NFL. Run just like the NFL except the players will probably have set salaries across the board.

hapapp wrote:Virginia is a right to work state but we have teachers who are members of AFT rather than the NEA. You can't legally prevent people from joining a union. However, the law can prevent the union from representing you if you are a public employee. I'm pretty sure the State Employees Association of North Carolina is a union but does not have bargaining rights. I believe it is a member of the SEIU.

I am president of an AFT local in the Triad of NC, so we are around this state as well. And yes, SEANC merged with SEIU about a decade ago I think. There is also UE 150 that goes after more blue collar employees amongst NC state employees. The UE in Va has Local 160 doing the same in that state.

I heard a judge (now retired from the federal bench) speak to this issue today. In summary, he said that even a left-leaning, Obama appointed, NLRB would never buy into this can of worms. And if it ever somehow got as far as the Supreme Court--there was no way Jose' that the high court would go for it.

appdaze wrote:

bcoach wrote:What a disaster. If they become employees then tuition and any salary also becomes taxable income. The schools will also have to pay FICA and unemployment insurance. Then hiring and firing would also come under employment laws. During an in-home you better be careful of what questions you ask. They are no longer a potential student they are a potential employee. If they are in a union and they are smoking weed can you fire them? Oh baby they are looking at big problems. If they don't like what the coach is doing that day do they run to their union rep?

It will just be minor league NFL. Run just like the NFL except the players will probably have set salaries across the board.

Yes and all the above applies because they are still employees. We, along with the vast majority of schools could never afford to do it. Again it is a disaster but like ASU66 said it will never happen.

bcoach wrote:

appdaze wrote:

bcoach wrote:What a disaster. If they become employees then tuition and any salary also becomes taxable income. The schools will also have to pay FICA and unemployment insurance. Then hiring and firing would also come under employment laws. During an in-home you better be careful of what questions you ask. They are no longer a potential student they are a potential employee. If they are in a union and they are smoking weed can you fire them? Oh baby they are looking at big problems. If they don't like what the coach is doing that day do they run to their union rep?

It will just be minor league NFL. Run just like the NFL except the players will probably have set salaries across the board.

Yes and all the above applies because they are still employees. We, along with the vast majority of schools could never afford to do it. Again it is a disaster but like ASU66 said it will never happen.

It may not happen for the next decade or so but it will happen eventually. Greed will eventually completely take over and that will be it.