ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed May 20, 2020 10:29 am

mikeyosef wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:40 am
GreatAppSt wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:47 pm
appst89 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:13 am
Saint3333 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:31 am
college Expenses have grown so much over the last 20 years much higher percentage increases than other sectors of the economy.

This isn’t just in sports. Quite the bubble they’ve created. Student loans have been an underlying issue that is cracking.
From my senior year at App, in-state tuition has increased 300% and out-of-state tuition has increased 370%. There is no reason for the cost of a college education to have increased like that.
Saint3333 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:39 am

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked.


It's an Arms race for the future plain and simple. ( Shang Grala's for sale http://www.highpoint.edu/ ) Spending till destruction is possible, ask the Soviets.
Yes it is an arms race. There's also been easy money to borrow and a real sales job on the difference in earning potential between college grads and those with High School diplomas. The way it's positioned going into debt to earn a degree is made out to be the smart choice and the truth is it really was very much a no brainer when I graduated in the 80s. That's allowed Colleges and Universities to justify ever increasing tuition and fees. Add to that reduced State support from our legislature, the need to offer more and more amenities to attract the best students and you have costs GROSSLY out-pacing increases in the cost of living. While education is still the best predictor of an individual's earnings and future lifestyle and APP is a fantastic value, even at today's prices, something has to give. It should be clear to everyone the cost of attending a traditional University, like the increasing cost of healthcare is NOT sustainable.

As for our athletics, I've had concern for some time that we have been right at the edge of what's possible sustainability-wise. It's been noted that a few down years in football would be detrimental to the athletic budget and we have already seen declining attendance. Don't get me wrong here, I've been for everything the department has done to date but this unprecedented recession/depression or whatever you want to call it is really going to strain our athletic department and our University. If you have the ability to donate to both, now is a good time to step up to the plate.
You did not mention it but attendance is down all across college football. It has been dropping for most schools for a while. People are seeing every game is online or on their TV set and realize the most affordable way to watch is to stay at home on the couch. When it is raining or cold and you have a family you sometimes make decisions to stay home because it is much easier than spending all day traveling and going to the game. Cost of attendance to school itself and to games is out of control. A ticket should not cost more than 40 bucks to a game unless you are in a box seat. Parking, tickets, and concessions are too much and need to be more affordable or else this generation that finished college in the last 10-15 years and the ones coming up will just stay at home more. For a family of 4 to attend a major college game it can cost say 400-500 bucks for gas, tickets, concessions, parking, and everything else for one day. That is just way too much and until these prices drop I predict you will see attendance drop more.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed May 20, 2020 12:26 pm

If you added AAC teams to the mix of possible members (I know that it isn't):

Cincy/Marshall
ODU/ECU
App/UNCC
GS/GA St.
Troy/UAB
UCF/USF

Would be a great east coast conference.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by SayYesToTheRock » Wed May 20, 2020 1:04 pm



This is the most realistic possible realignment I've seen.
Obviously in this scenario we would require a protected annual game with Georgia Southern.

Some I did some quick math on traveling distances:
Our current average travel distance in the SBC East division is 343 miles.

In the division above, it would be reduced to an average distance of 287 miles. Getting rid of that Troy trip (474 Miles) really helps.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by Saint3333 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:32 pm

Shift UAB and USA to CUSA and that's the most likely situation. Don't want to split the CFB payout 14 ways.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed May 20, 2020 1:43 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:26 pm
If you added AAC teams to the mix of possible members (I know that it isn't):

Cincy/Marshall
ODU/ECU
App/UNCC
GS/GA St.
Troy/UAB
UCF/USF

Would be a great east coast conference.
Agree. But I can’t see how you don’t include the F*U’s in with UCF and USF.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by spacemonkey » Wed May 20, 2020 7:33 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:43 pm
Saint3333 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 12:26 pm
If you added AAC teams to the mix of possible members (I know that it isn't):

Cincy/Marshall
ODU/ECU
App/UNCC
GS/GA St.
Troy/UAB
UCF/USF

Would be a great east coast conference.
Agree. But I can’t see how you don’t include the F*U’s in with UCF and USF.

This would be an awesome football conference. Cincy would be miserable from a basketball perspective.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by BTK2000 » Wed May 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Yosef84 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:41 am
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 10:37 am
Eliminate useless majors, and stop forcing students to take useless classes. I didn't even get into the bulk of my finance major classes until I already spent thousands on World Civ, Anthropology, and Chemistry.

Inflation/Stagflation as a whole is sweeping the nation at a rapid pace. Everything costs more, with no additional benefits. Those students living in the same apartments I lived in over 10 years ago are paying much more, and I guarantee you not much has changed.
You have to be careful what you consider a "useless" class. Just that it isn't directly related to your major, does not make it "useless." A university education is supposed to represent e a certain amount of general education in addition to preparedness for a particular field of study. App State isn't just a trade school after all.
I agree The classroom isn’t the issue. A sound general education is a key component of a bachelors degree.

Administrative bloat, luxury dorms, dinning halls and exorbitant student recitation are the issue. That’s coming from someone who had a degree in recreation mgmt from app.


Why are UNC system schools adding costs to one up each other in amenities? Westerns climbing wall had to be a foot taller than apps. Why is the state not contributing to capital expenditures for core academic needs like the Sanford hall renovation? It’s funded through a bond and not state appropriations for some reason. Why does every classroom need a $12k podium and sound system? Apparently you can’t Learn without the latest interconnected tech. The cost of college has exploded because universities have never had to answer for the cost. People can always get a loan to cover it and no matter what the school charges.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by BeauFoster » Thu May 21, 2020 9:33 am

BTK2000 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 9:33 pm

I agree The classroom isn’t the issue. A sound general education is a key component of a bachelors degree.

Administrative bloat, luxury dorms, dinning halls and exorbitant student recitation are the issue. That’s coming from someone who had a degree in recreation mgmt from app.


Why are UNC system schools adding costs to one up each other in amenities? Westerns climbing wall had to be a foot taller than apps. Why is the state not contributing to capital expenditures for core academic needs like the Sanford hall renovation? It’s funded through a bond and not state appropriations for some reason. Why does every classroom need a $12k podium and sound system? Apparently you can’t Learn without the latest interconnected tech. The cost of college has exploded because universities have never had to answer for the cost. People can always get a loan to cover it and no matter what the school charges.
I agree with the majority of what you say, but I do believe that bringing in the latest (proven) tech (don't be a frickin beta tester) is of great value to all students. There are so many things that I use on a daily basis that students can learn about and be prepared with in college. That knowledge will be valuable to many (not all). Sound systems are not necessary, but collaboration tools are the future.


Give 'em hell!

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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by BTK2000 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:37 am

I’ll concede the tech point. We did use the podium most every day in class and there is a lot of value in classroom tech. Those things are just expensive and they are constantly upgraded. When I look back on the stuff/ services I had access to in college it was awesome but man was it expensive. I just think higher ed needs to do some serious cost benefit Analysis like I have to do in my job now. When you have 20k people paying for all the administrators, buildings and services it’s not too bad. If attendance ever significantly drops/ the federal gov stops backing or issuing loans, that stuff is gonna get real expensive real fast.

I also think we need “useless”, as they we called in this thread before, degrees because the creation of knowledge is fueled by both purely academic majors and professional majors alike. Sociology research plays a large roll in identifying The tourism and business trends I studied in school. That research can have direct impact on professional industries. I think you need to know going into it, that graduating with a sociology degree is going to give you a great world perspective but not the same marketable skills a bachelors in business will.

I feel bad having a bachelors but not supporting a federal or state program for free university education. For the most part I think post high school education is a more complex subtle issue that the blanket funding of bachelor degrees won’t solve. This statement does not take take the complex issues surrounding equal access to higher education because of different social or financial barriers many students face. I do know for sure that colleges would take the blank check and run out the door with it because they have already proven they will with the current setup.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by BeauFoster » Thu May 21, 2020 11:04 am

BTK2000 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:37 am
I’ll concede the tech point. We did use the podium most every day in class and there is a lot of value in classroom tech. Those things are just expensive and they are constantly upgraded. When I look back on the stuff/ services I had access to in college it was awesome but man was it expensive. I just think higher ed needs to do some serious cost benefit Analysis like I have to do in my job now. When you have 20k people paying for all the administrators, buildings and services it’s not too bad. If attendance ever significantly drops/ the federal gov stops backing or issuing loans, that stuff is gonna get real expensive real fast.

I also think we need “useless”, as they we called in this thread before, degrees because the creation of knowledge is fueled by both purely academic majors and professional majors alike. Sociology research plays a large roll in identifying The tourism and business trends I studied in school. That research can have direct impact on professional industries. I think you need to know going into it, that graduating with a sociology degree is going to give you a great world perspective but not the same marketable skills a bachelors in business will.

I feel bad having a bachelors but not supporting a federal or state program for free university education. For the most part I think post high school education is a more complex subtle issue that the blanket funding of bachelor degrees won’t solve. I do know for sure that colleges with take the blank check and run out the door with it because they have already done it.
Agree with you 100% - higher ed needs to be cost conscious, and has to balance the frills. Some of these things are somewhat necessary to keep up with the Jones and attract the best possible students (not just academically, but well rounded people). I mean, the majority of us chose App because we loved the school and area. There will always be kids who do that. But there are also kids who will chose based on how pretty the dorms are (whether they have A/C!) and stuff like that. College isn't what it was back when we were there - now get off my lawn!


Give 'em hell!

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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by appsfan » Thu May 21, 2020 7:44 pm

ECU announced today that they are dropping Men's & Women's Tennis and M/W Swimming/Diving.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by WASU 93 » Thu May 21, 2020 8:12 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:29 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:45 am
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:30 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:17 am
Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?
Football wise we could compete in the AAC. Not as confident about other sports. Financially I don't think we're close to being ready for that step.

I'm all in for a realignment to create regional conferences. It would reduce travel costs and possibly increase revenue for gameday with more away teams fans traveling to attend.
Competing with the AAC in football isn’t the issue. Would you sell more tickets? ECU set a goal of 16k for season tickets for next season, they reduced that goal to 10k and have sold less than half that to date. According to their 24/7 site.
We'd sell more individual game tickets but I don't think you'd see season tickets jump too much. Committing to season tickets goes beyond who we are playing, and is more of the personal ability to commit to 6 games or physical and mental ability to freeze your ass off for a mid to late season game in Boone.
That is where a half season ticket package makes a lot of sense. Since becoming a season ticket holder four years ago, I have not missed a home game and don't intend to.

With youth sports and other commitments for those with School Aged Kids (or even Young Alumni who are on the travel and wedding gauntlet for the first five years out of school), a two or three game package makes a lot of sense. I know the fear is that you will lose some of your full season ticket holders, but I am confident that your would grow your overall season ticket holder base, especially if you use parking as a lure for the 2 and 3 games packages and the premium lots for the full season.



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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by AppinVA » Thu May 21, 2020 8:40 pm

WASU 93 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:12 pm
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:29 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:45 am
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:30 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:17 am
Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?
Football wise we could compete in the AAC. Not as confident about other sports. Financially I don't think we're close to being ready for that step.

I'm all in for a realignment to create regional conferences. It would reduce travel costs and possibly increase revenue for gameday with more away teams fans traveling to attend.
Competing with the AAC in football isn’t the issue. Would you sell more tickets? ECU set a goal of 16k for season tickets for next season, they reduced that goal to 10k and have sold less than half that to date. According to their 24/7 site.
We'd sell more individual game tickets but I don't think you'd see season tickets jump too much. Committing to season tickets goes beyond who we are playing, and is more of the personal ability to commit to 6 games or physical and mental ability to freeze your ass off for a mid to late season game in Boone.
That is where a half season ticket package makes a lot of sense. Since becoming a season ticket holder four years ago, I have not missed a home game and don't intend to.

With youth sports and other commitments for those with School Aged Kids (or even Young Alumni who are on the travel and wedding gauntlet for the first five years out of school), a two or three game package makes a lot of sense. I know the fear is that you will lose some of your full season ticket holders, but I am confident that your would grow your overall season ticket holder base, especially if you use parking as a lure for the 2 and 3 games packages and the premium lots for the full season.
We could even have a “Saturday Only” package for...well, you know where I’m going with this.


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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri May 22, 2020 9:06 am

AppinVA wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:40 pm
WASU 93 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 8:12 pm
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:29 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:45 am
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:30 am


Football wise we could compete in the AAC. Not as confident about other sports. Financially I don't think we're close to being ready for that step.

I'm all in for a realignment to create regional conferences. It would reduce travel costs and possibly increase revenue for gameday with more away teams fans traveling to attend.
Competing with the AAC in football isn’t the issue. Would you sell more tickets? ECU set a goal of 16k for season tickets for next season, they reduced that goal to 10k and have sold less than half that to date. According to their 24/7 site.
We'd sell more individual game tickets but I don't think you'd see season tickets jump too much. Committing to season tickets goes beyond who we are playing, and is more of the personal ability to commit to 6 games or physical and mental ability to freeze your ass off for a mid to late season game in Boone.
That is where a half season ticket package makes a lot of sense. Since becoming a season ticket holder four years ago, I have not missed a home game and don't intend to.

With youth sports and other commitments for those with School Aged Kids (or even Young Alumni who are on the travel and wedding gauntlet for the first five years out of school), a two or three game package makes a lot of sense. I know the fear is that you will lose some of your full season ticket holders, but I am confident that your would grow your overall season ticket holder base, especially if you use parking as a lure for the 2 and 3 games packages and the premium lots for the full season.
We could even have a “Saturday Only” package for...well, you know where I’m going with this.
Maybe we could market it to the New Apps out there. We get New Apps as fans every year. Just like we shorten to AppState sometimes with the on-field logo we could do this with this package and call it the "NewApp" ticket package.


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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri May 22, 2020 9:11 am

Commentary in today's Greensboro News and Record. Page C1 and from the Raleigh News and Observer so it was most likely in that paper a few days ago. This is from the e-edition so it may be behind a paywall.

https://www.greensboro.com/eedition/pag ... 11670.html

Basically stating ECU shot themselves in the foot with the firing of McNeill and the numbers may not all add up.


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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by Gonzo » Tue May 26, 2020 1:36 pm




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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by AppinVA » Tue May 26, 2020 1:46 pm

Brace for impact.


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Re: ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

Unread post by ah59396 » Tue May 26, 2020 2:04 pm

Horrible news. Figured something like this was coming.


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