OK - here's the question ---

AppSt94 · Unread post by **AppSt94** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:06 am

WVAPPeer wrote:
AppSt94 wrote:I do understand that strength of schedule means something but it's hard to penalize a team for who they play. FBS schedules are put together so far in advance that it is unfair to penalize a team for playing weak teams that weren't weak when you scheduled them. I doubt that OSU scheduled Va Tech thinking they would be a 6-6 team this year. They probably scheduled Kent State and Cincy for reasons other than easy wins or a quality opponent. Take NC State for example. They scheduled a game at ODU to build a presence for recruiting the area. Again I think the process is flawed and the fact that the number 3 team handled it's business and is sitting home. That is a bigger injustice to me.
That's true 94 but I see no reason Baylor had the 3 OCC they had OTHER THAN to schedule 3 easy wins - basically the same for TCU although Minnesota turned out to be a decent team but still a middle of the pack Big 10 team - they have to live with the fact now ---

TCU beat Minnesota by 23. OSU beat them by 7.

AppSt94 · Unread post by **AppSt94** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:08 am

appmaj wrote:I keep hearing people say that TCU & Baylor didn't play anyone.

Let's talk about Alabama. OOC-WVU, FAU, Southern Miss, & Western

WVU (The best OOC win-6th in the Big 12)
SoMIss (Last in CUSA)
FAU (Next to last in CUSA)
Western (3rd in the SoCon)

Alabama should not be in the playoff let alone #1.

Alabama is 5-1 against the top 25.

bigdaddyg · Unread post by **bigdaddyg** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:23 am

AppSt94 wrote:
appmaj wrote:I keep hearing people say that TCU & Baylor didn't play anyone.

Let's talk about Alabama. OOC-WVU, FAU, Southern Miss, & Western

WVU (The best OOC win-6th in the Big 12)
SoMIss (Last in CUSA)
FAU (Next to last in CUSA)
Western (3rd in the SoCon)

Alabama should not be in the playoff let alone #1.
Alabama is 5-1 against the top 25.

There will never be a perfect formula for picking the final 4, final 8 or whatever is decided for who plays for the NC. You can roll back through this thread and find several options, most of which are viable. I think that margin of victory needs to go out the window. Team A beats Team B by 20 but Team C beats Team B by 10, etc. You would have to figure in home team, weather, etc and that gets crazy. Either every BCS conference needs a conference championship or all need none. In basketball every conference, regardless of the number of teams has a post-season tournament. As far as I can tell margin of victory in games is not a factor for tournament selection.

As far as football goes you can't have a bye for the top 2 unless the top 2 don't play in bowl games. I had always thought the best way to go is to have the top 8 play the traditional 4 New Years Day Bowl games with the 4 winners advancing. It pains me to say this but allowing the top G5 team to grab the 8 spot (without truely being the #8 team) might not be the best idea. If App goes 12-1 (and wins the Sunbelt championship game) and goes to the Peach Bowl and plays a really good SEC or some other major conference 10-2 team, that would still be awesome. If App goes 13-0 with two wins over P5 OOC games and earns the #8 seed even better.

AppSt94 · Unread post by **AppSt94** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:29 am

bigdaddyg wrote:
AppSt94 wrote:
appmaj wrote:I keep hearing people say that TCU & Baylor didn't play anyone.

Let's talk about Alabama. OOC-WVU, FAU, Southern Miss, & Western

WVU (The best OOC win-6th in the Big 12)
SoMIss (Last in CUSA)
FAU (Next to last in CUSA)
Western (3rd in the SoCon)

Alabama should not be in the playoff let alone #1.
Alabama is 5-1 against the top 25.
There will never be a perfect formula for picking the final 4, final 8 or whatever is decided for who plays for the NC. You can roll back through this thread and find several options, most of which are viable. I think that margin of victory needs to go out the window. Team A beats Team B by 20 but Team C beats Team B by 10, etc. You would have to figure in home team, weather, etc and that gets crazy. Either every BCS conference needs a conference championship or all need none. In basketball every conference, regardless of the number of teams has a post-season tournament. As far as I can tell margin of victory in games is not a factor for tournament selection.

As far as football goes you can't have a bye for the top 2 unless the top 2 don't play in bowl games. I had always thought the best way to go is to have the top 8 play the traditional 4 New Years Day Bowl games with the 4 winners advancing. It pains me to say this but allowing the top G5 team to grab the 8 spot (without truely being the #8 team) might not be the best idea. If App goes 12-1 (and wins the Sunbelt championship game) and goes to the Peach Bowl and plays a really good SEC or some other major conference 10-2 team, that would still be awesome. If App goes 13-0 with two wins over P5 OOC games and earns the #8 seed even better.

I agree with most everything that your saying. I do believe that margin of victory did play a role in what happened yesterday. If OSU would have beat Wisconsin 10-0 with a 3rd string QB, you still think they would have been chosen over TCU?

clayton · Unread post by **clayton** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:49 am

I think the committee was told to pick the four teams people would sell the most tickets and get the highest ratings.

If the Big 12 co-champions were Texas and Oklahoma, one would probably get in. TCU and Baylor were penalized more for being TCU and Baylor than for not playing in a conference championship game.

So, if they are in contention for a spot, I'd expect the Bamas, Ohio States, and Notre Dames to get slight edges over the TCUs, Utahs, and other non-traditional powers.

App91 · Unread post by **App91** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:56 am

AppSt94 wrote:Is the problem a lack of a CCG or the way teams are picked? TCU started the weekend #4 and beat #9 yesterday. OSU started the week ranked lower, beat #13 and moved past TCU. I don't see where TCU should have been moved out. The system is still a sham.

This one is easy, all about the $$. Baylor and TCU are 2 smaller private univ's, with smaller fan bases. tOSU is a huge public univ with a huge fanbase. one that can travel to the 2 bowl games and sell lots of tix. Another money grab, but the CFB playoffs are not affiliated with the NCAA, just like the BCS was not.
Private Cartel.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:57 am

I'd like to see an 8 team playoff with the 5 P5 champs, top G5, and 2 at-large teams. I doubt the P5 would give the G5 an automatic spot since they have autonomy now, but the last two championship systems had provisions for the non-P5 schools to get in. Maybe they could revert back to the BCS rule of a G5 being rated in the top 12 or something. It has happened a few times.

AppSt94 · Unread post by **AppSt94** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:02 am

Sound good but they would just manipulate the polls to keep the G5 out of the top 12.

APPARJ · Unread post by **APPARJ** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:04 am

AppSt94 wrote:Sound good but they would just manipulate the polls to keep the G5 out of the top 12.

And they should. G5 schools don't belong in a playoff with P5 schools.

clemmonsapp · Unread post by **clemmonsapp** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:13 am

It is probably just a coincidence that the four most influential conferences ended up with the four spots.

If there was any way possible to get the big Teneleventwelve into the playoff it was going to happen. The team with the least impressive wins and by far the worst loss is in because of politics.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:14 am

So Boise State, TCU, and Utah didn't belong in the BCS games they played in? You could say their wins directly lead to TCU and Utah being asked to join the P5.

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:21 am

Good discussions and I will continue to participate as well - but in your responses try to include your answer to my initial question ---

Will the Big 12 expand to 12?
OR
Will the NCAA drop the number for a CCG to 10?
Just interested in hearing others take on this ---

APPARJ · Unread post by **APPARJ** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:30 am

JTApps1 wrote:So Boise State, TCU, and Utah didn't belong in the BCS games they played in? You could say their wins directly lead to TCU and Utah being asked to join the P5.

That's because TCU and Utah and P5-esque programs who were playing in G5 conferences. The same way App State was a Sun Belt-esque school playing in the SoCon.

The G5 should not get a seat at the table for a P5 playoff. The G5 should have it's own playoff. That would be awesome.

Saint3333 · Unread post by **Saint3333** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:39 am

APPARJ wrote:
JTApps1 wrote:So Boise State, TCU, and Utah didn't belong in the BCS games they played in? You could say their wins directly lead to TCU and Utah being asked to join the P5.
That's because TCU and Utah and P5-esque programs who were playing in G5 conferences. The same way App State was a Sun Belt-esque school playing in the SoCon.

The G5 should not get a seat at the table for a P5 playoff. The G5 should have it's own playoff. That would be awesome.

It would probably we written as the 5 P5 champions, the highest ranked G5 member (if ranked in the top 12), and 2-3 at larges depending if there was a qualified G5 member.

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:05 am

OK - here is a common opponent for 3 teams --- WVU
1. Alabama beat WV - 33-23
2. WV beat Baylor - 41-27
3. TCU beat WV - 31-30

AppSt94 · Unread post by **AppSt94** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:02 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:Good discussions and I will continue to participate as well - but in your responses try to include your answer to my initial question ---

Will the Big 12 expand to 12?
OR
Will the NCAA drop the number for a CCG to 10?
Just interested in hearing others take on this ---

Yes the BigXII will be forced to expand as the NCAA will not change their rules. Here is what I think will happen and a speculations of what it means for our situation.

I think that the BigXII will go after Colorado St. and Cincinnati. If that happens, it will leave the AAC with 10 teams and the MWC with 11. I think the MWC will go after New Mexico St. That will leave the SB with 10.

appmaj · Unread post by **appmaj** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:13 pm

WVAPPeer wrote:
appmaj wrote:I keep hearing people say that TCU & Baylor didn't play anyone.

Let's talk about Alabama. OOC-WVU, FAU, Southern Miss, & Western

WVU (The best OOC win-6th in the Big 12)
SoMIss (Last in CUSA)
FAU (Next to last in CUSA)
Western (3rd in the SoCon)

Alabama should not be in the playoff let alone #1.
Show me a team that played a stronger conference schedule? - If their is a playoff and the SEC champion is not included then you don't have one of the two best teams in the country - are you serious about Alabama shouldn't even be in the playoffs??? -
Also WVU was the team Baylor lost to ---

My Alabama hate is showing. The real point I am trying to make is all the talk about weak schedules should include Bama.

bigdaddyg · Unread post by **bigdaddyg** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:16 pm

appst89 wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:
appst89 wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:You guys really think having a computer pick 2 teams is better than a committee picking 4? --- anyway, I see this going to 8 teams with the 5 conference champions and 3 at large teams ---
I thought the committee would be better. Turns out, I was wrong.
So which 2 teams should be playing in your mind? ---
Well, I like four better than two, so I'm not saying it should be two. But I think the committee screwed up worse than the computer ever did.

If there were only 2 like last year and year's before who would it be? Is FSU a lock or does Oregon bump them? Is Alabama a slam dunk. Thank goodness it is 4 because the arguments would be insane for the #3 that was booted. I don't think anyone would argue OSU in the top 2.

Black Saturday · Unread post by **Black Saturday** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:17 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
WVAPPeer wrote:"The Big 12 commissioner says the conference will reconsider how to declare its champion after being left out of the four-team college football playoff.

In a phone interview on the College Football Playoff Selection Show, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby told ESPN's Rece Davis: "It's clear that we were penalized for not having a postseason championship game. It would have been nice to have been told that ahead of time."

"We have to weigh whether this is substantial enough to add institutions. ... It's certainly a major consideration."

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, right, said the league will reconsider how to declare its champion after being left out of the four-team college football playoff.

The Big 12 would need to add two teams or have the NCAA approve a waiver to have a conference championship game. The Big 12 has 10 teams, and a conference must have 12 teams to have a conference championship game."
If that is true and I believe that it could be a punishment then the current system is no better than what we had. I don't see it stopping there. 5 conferences playing for 4 spots in an invitational tournament will lead to another format.

Any way they can figure out how to get more blood from the turnip, they'll do it.

JTApps1 · Unread post by **JTApps1** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:36 pm

Saint3333 wrote:
APPARJ wrote:
JTApps1 wrote:So Boise State, TCU, and Utah didn't belong in the BCS games they played in? You could say their wins directly lead to TCU and Utah being asked to join the P5.
That's because TCU and Utah and P5-esque programs who were playing in G5 conferences. The same way App State was a Sun Belt-esque school playing in the SoCon.

The G5 should not get a seat at the table for a P5 playoff. The G5 should have it's own playoff. That would be awesome.
It would probably we written as the 5 P5 champions, the highest ranked G5 member (if ranked in the top 12), and 2-3 at larges depending if there was a qualified G5 member.

That is pretty much what I had in mind Saint.

As for a G5 playoff I think it would be good from a competition stand point, but create even more of a divide between P5 and G5. I know there is already a big gap, but some G5 members will have a tough time signing off on that. Just imagine telling ECU, Boise, UCF, ,Cincy, ect that now you not only have a stigma that you are below those teams, but clear cut rules excluding you from any chance at joining them in the post season. That could get ugly very quickly.

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