One Big Reason No LU in the Belt

[hapapp]

https://pilotonline.com/sports/columnis ... e2474.html

The question is whether all those resources result in success for t h e Flames.

[firemoose]

Guess there was no reason for this post. My bad.

[t4pizza]

Most surprising part of that article for me was this quote, "ODU’s football team opens in 2018 at Liberty, and the Monarchs will be paid a $1.32 million guarantee". They will be able to get good fbs teams to come to Liberty if they can pay that kind of money for them. Currently it seems we can only offer money games to FCS opponents. That is a huge scheduling advantage for Liberty right out of the gate.

[Yosef84]

I am sure we will butt heads with LU from time to time but I would be surprised if they become a huge factor to App recruiting. Because of the campus culture, I think LU appeals to a "niche" type of athlete. Facilities are a great selling point but I just don't see it raising them above other competitors if the culture isn't a fit. There will be some overlap of course. I guess we'll see.

[Rekdiver]

Wonder if they have a special offering during services for the mission of Athletics?

[rbarthle17]

I see the big "issue" for any other area school being that Liberty is an actual national brand of university. Evangelicals from across the nation will go to Liberty over more local options. Their funding, and recruiting, base is the entirety of the USA. But that is a coin with two sides when it comes to recruiting. LU is not going to get recruits that don't align themselves with their religious beliefs, so from a local standpoint I don't see any other area school having much to worry about. But LU could draw in athletes from other parts of the nation, like BYU does, but those kids were never going to be targets for area schools to begin with. It's almost like we would have different recruiting grounds from each other.

[EastHallApp]

I am sure we will butt heads with LU from time to time but I would be surprised if they become a huge factor to App recruiting. Because of the campus culture, I think LU appeals to a "niche" type of athlete. Facilities are a great selling point but I just don't see it raising them above other competitors if the culture isn't a fit. There will be some overlap of course. I guess we'll see.

It's a bit of a concern for me, at least potentially, in that our coaches seem to use the overt influence of religion as part of their recruiting pitch and seemingly part of the program culture. Whether you think that's good, bad or indifferent, I could see at least some recruits (and their families) who are particularly motivated by that choosing Liberty when they might have chosen App.

Of course, most teenagers, religious or not, would probably prefer the more "traditional" college experience of App over what Liberty offers. But some more restrictive parents might push their kids toward Liberty.

[AppfaninCAALand]

I'm often in Lynchburg for work unrelated to LU, (will be tomorrow in fact) and I'll tell you, that university, warts and all, really is an impressive operation. Construction everywhere, students driving around with tags from all 50 states causing horrible traffic jams, and Lynchburg is not a dying mill town like other Appalachia towns it's size. They are really excited about the direction, there are billboards and signs in every business in Lynchburg advertising the 2018 football schedule/seaaon tickets, and a general buzz around town of the coming move. l'm confident they will achieve their goal of becoming an Envangelical version of Notre Dame or BYU both athleticly and in other aspects as well.

That I think they will be successful is why I was opposed to them in the SBC.

As for an effect on App, I suspect the 7 FBS schools in the 4 state area from DC to FL over the last 5 years (us included) is a bigger threat than Liberty specifically. Look how ECU has tanked during that time.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Per usual, here is my basic objection to Liberty, both in the Sun Belt and for that matter why they are even have SACS accreditation, but they do

http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-libert ... eationists

[WVAPPeer]

Per usual, here is my basic objection to Liberty, both in the Sun Belt and for that matter why they are even have SACS accreditation, but they do

http://www.thedailybeast.com/how-libert ... eationists

As I am pushing the 70s I just cannot comprehend why so many continue to deny so much - I really don't understand the increasing "dumbing down of America" ---

On the football recruiting topic, I don't see them as any more than a minimal factor per APP - Some WILL want to go there because of the religious environment, some WILL NOT want to go there because of the religious environment and MOST WILL WANT TO GO WHERE THEY CAN WIN AND BE SUCCESSFUL !!! --- APP STATE !!!

[Stonewall]

We compete with them on the recruiting trail now.

[WVAPPeer]

We compete with them on the recruiting trail now.

Sure, but we compete with Elon and Presbyterian and Charlotte now - who have we lost to Liberty?

[EastHallApp]

We compete with them on the recruiting trail now.

I'm sure we have somewhere, but I can't remember the last recruit who listed App and Liberty among his final group, including the 2018 cycle.

[bcoach]

I'm often in Lynchburg for work unrelated to LU, (will be tomorrow in fact) and I'll tell you, that university, warts and all, really is an impressive operation. Construction everywhere, students driving around with tags from all 50 states causing horrible traffic jams, and Lynchburg is not a dying mill town like other Appalachia towns it's size. They are really excited about the direction, there are billboards and signs in every business in Lynchburg advertising the 2018 football schedule/seaaon tickets, and a general buzz around town of the coming move. l'm confident they will achieve their goal of becoming an Envangelical version of Notre Dame or BYU both athleticly and in other aspects as well.

That I think they will be successful is why I was opposed to them in the SBC.

As for an effect on App, I suspect the 7 FBS schools in the 4 state area from DC to FL over the last 5 years (us included) is a bigger threat than Liberty specifically. Look how ECU has tanked during that time.

Many keep underestimating them. They have failed at exactly nothing they have put their mind to. I have been watching them for about 20 years now and what they have done is astounding. Don't get me wrong I am not a supporter or a detractor just an observer. AppfaninCAALand is correct. The building just does not stop. I am very sure that going down the road a couple years if they can lengthen the runway of THEIR airport they will have a private university plane to fly teams. You just have to see the place to understand the impact they have.

[1ASU78]

I don't get all the hate for LU. I guess they teach stuff like any other university to be accredited. Their belief of how we got here may or may not be the same belief as others. If you want to believe we slithered out of the mud that's you. I don't. That's me. But when our tolerance for each other hinges on "I will be tolerant if you agree with me" that's not tolerance it's I'm right you're wrong. So far my view is based in faith and a belief, the other is based in theory that its practitioners are working tirelessly to prove. In the midst of all this who is right who is wrong? Does anyone have to be right or wrong? It seems that no matter the issue if humans are involved we can loose perspective and turn things into something it should have never been to begin with.

I think some kids at LU drink beer, do the hoo-chi coo-chi, 420 and go to movies, and may even go to church. While there probably plenty of biblically conservative kids I think most are having a pretty normal college life. So they very well may begin to go after the same recruits we do BUT they aren't Appalachian State University

[hapapp]

I don't get all the hate for LU. I guess they teach stuff like any other university to be accredited. Their belief of how we got here may or may not be the same belief as others. If you want to believe we slithered out of the mud that's you. I don't. That's me. But when our tolerance for each other hinges on "I will be tolerant if you agree with me" that's not tolerance it's I'm right you're wrong. So far my view is based in faith and a belief, the other is based in theory that its practitioners are working tirelessly to prove. In the midst of all this who is right who is wrong? Does anyone have to be right or wrong? It seems that no matter the issue if humans are involved we can loose perspective and turn things into something it should have never been to begin with.

I think some kids at LU drink beer, do the hoo-chi coo-chi, 420 and go to movies, and may even go to church. While there probably plenty of biblically conservative kids I think most are having a pretty normal college life. So they very well may begin to go after the same recruits we do BUT they aren't Appalachian State University

Granted LU is not Jerry Falwell Sr.'s Liberty Baptist College but college life there is different. If someone chooses to go there knowing that, that's their choice and I'm fine with that. But, I don't that's the normal college life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ans ... d0c33d32db

Count me as someone living in thejr shadow who is not a fan of much of what they do but my reason for opposing their being in the Belt has to do with the resources available to them. As Bcoach has said, one look at how that campus has changed in ten years tells you all you need to know. I admit to some jealousy with regard to their athletic facilities.

[appstate77]

As a minister who has watched LU since their inception, I have many concerns. Old timers remember when they produced the weekly SoCon roundup as a way to buy their way into the SoCon. They have tried to get into the Belt in a fashion that is similiar, but have met resistance due to their reputation and their stone age academics. LU has a motive that make regular evangelicals look positively docile. Their mission is comes from an uber Calvinism that believes it is their destiny to be God's true and eternal lamp post for the world, and their athletic dept. is part of this mission. The comparison has been made to BYU who makes no attempt to hide that their mission is to be the beacon of Mormonism. They see success on the field and court as evidence of God's blessings on their correctness. My instinct tells me LU carries the same philosophy. If this is the case, them it becomes dangerous. As the Liberty Way is seen as the exclusive way and all other ways, including traditional expressions of Christianity are wrong. This is why I do not want to schedule LU. Doing so feeds that spiritual superiority complex.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I don't get all the hate for LU. I guess they teach stuff like any other university to be accredited. Their belief of how we got here may or may not be the same belief as others. If you want to believe we slithered out of the mud that's you. I don't. That's me. But when our tolerance for each other hinges on "I will be tolerant if you agree with me" that's not tolerance it's I'm right you're wrong. So far my view is based in faith and a belief, the other is based in theory that its practitioners are working tirelessly to prove. In the midst of all this who is right who is wrong? Does anyone have to be right or wrong? It seems that no matter the issue if humans are involved we can loose perspective and turn things into something it should have never been to begin with.

I think some kids at LU drink beer, do the hoo-chi coo-chi, 420 and go to movies, and may even go to church. While there probably plenty of biblically conservative kids I think most are having a pretty normal college life. So they very well may begin to go after the same recruits we do BUT they aren't Appalachian State University

I don't care, within some very broad limits, what they teach as long as they just label it correctly. They need to call their creationism class a religion class and not a science type course. I have never posted about other colleges and universities be they "Bible Colleges", seminary schools, or public or private universities that are honest in their approach. LU is not being honest here in what science is to the vast, vast majority of people that study science around the world.

Anyone has every right to call out ignorance and in this case intentional spreading of ignorance exactly what it is. That does not make me or anyone calling this out intolerant. If someone said that 2+2=5 I would call them out on it. That does not make me intolerant of someone's views on math.

The issue with their view of creationism, besides the fact it goes contrary to so much evidence based science, in so many fields of science, is their view that by creationism they really mean Genesis based creationism. It they were trying to approach this as a science they would equally explore the World Turtle/Serpent/Elephant theories of various groups around the world, and so many other creation stories and myths. Instead they already have the answer and they have to fit everything into that belief system. That is NOT science, and it is NOT intolerant to say as such. It is religion, just call it that.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

From their Doctrinal Statement-
https://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/?PID=6907

We affirm that the return of Christ for all believers is imminent

I do have to ask the question, how does building such fine athletic programs prepare for the imminent return of Christ?

It is hard not to discuss religion when discussing LU, and I do try to focus on other aspects of LU than their belief system, but the above really does seem contradictory in the statement and their actions.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I don't get all the hate for LU. I guess they teach stuff like any other university to be accredited. Their belief of how we got here may or may not be the same belief as others. If you want to believe we slithered out of the mud that's you. I don't. That's me. But when our tolerance for each other hinges on "I will be tolerant if you agree with me" that's not tolerance it's I'm right you're wrong. So far my view is based in faith and a belief, the other is based in theory that its practitioners are working tirelessly to prove. In the midst of all this who is right who is wrong? Does anyone have to be right or wrong? It seems that no matter the issue if humans are involved we can loose perspective and turn things into something it should have never been to begin with.

I think some kids at LU drink beer, do the hoo-chi coo-chi, 420 and go to movies, and may even go to church. While there probably plenty of biblically conservative kids I think most are having a pretty normal college life. So they very well may begin to go after the same recruits we do BUT they aren't Appalachian State University

Granted LU is not Jerry Falwell Sr.'s Liberty Baptist College but college life there is different. If someone chooses to go there knowing that, that's their choice and I'm fine with that. But, I don't that's the normal college life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ans ... d0c33d32db

Count me as someone living in thejr shadow who is not a fan of much of what they do but my reason for opposing their being in the Belt has to do with the resources available to them. As Bcoach has said, one look at how that campus has changed in ten years tells you all you need to know. I admit to some jealousy with regard to their athletic facilities.

According to Homer you are envious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmx1jpqv3RA