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NDSU

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by Rekdiver » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:53 am

NDSU capable of beating some FBS schools sure...but App ain’t one of them. We would drub them.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by wb247 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:08 am

MrCraig wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am
Except that App had seen sporadic success in men’s and women’s basketball as well as softball and baseball before the move up. Again, I haven’t done much research on NDSU, but I’ve never seen them mentioned in any sport other than football.
I seem to recall them from brackets a few times, recently.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by bigdaddyg » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:13 am

I watched a few bits and pieces yesterday. Those run plays that ended up as good gains due to bad tackling would not fly against App. NDSU gets 30 yards for the game against our D. Our offense would tear them to pieces. At the height of our FCS success I used to speculate about how we would have done in various G5 conferences. No doubt we would have competed with several G5 schools, beaten many (even with 65 scholarships) and finished with respectable records most seasons. We would have also played the final 4 or so games every year with lots of guys banged up or unavailable due to the step up in talent level.

I’d be interested to see where NDSU gets their players. Is the state of ND sending kids to P5 schools? Who does NDSU compete against for guys within 200 miles of that school?

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by wb247 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:14 am

wncapp78 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:09 pm
... The same reason we didn’t want New Mexico State and Idaho in SBC ...
I doubt opposition to them would have been so vocal if they weren't dead weight more often than not. Not that what I say matters, but I certainly supported NMSU for all sports, based on basketball credentials.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by Appster99 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:18 am

asu66 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:46 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:17 pm
Have to think they’d contend in the MWC immediately.
NDSU's Pres. and AD are on record for maintaining the status-quo for the foreseeable future. They've done studies on MWC travel and time away from class for all of the sports that they sponsor and the estimates, they say, are "simply out of the question." They are also not interested in any "football only" situation.
Fiscally responsible administration. Who would've thunk it? I mean that as a general comment and not a reflection on feelings one way or another towards App.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by Yosef84 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:22 am

The FCS is certainly watered down in comparison to what it once was but NDSU is legit and would have competed even in the 90's and early 2000's. No, they wouldn't have dominated as thoroughly if they had to go up against App and Georgia Southern (or Troy, WKU, Marshall if we're talking about the 90's) but they would absolutely have been in the mix. NDSU has the advantage of playing in a state with zero FBS football, so they have an inside track for recruiting. It's not a hotbed of high school football so it gets overlooked by the Big 10 to some extent. They have a very nice niche.

The fact that average fans aren't aware of the FCS championship doesn't discredit their achievement any more than it discredits ours from 2005-07).

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by wncapp78 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:49 am

North Dakota State has won six straight against P5 competition—including a win over No. 13 Iowa. Would I be excited to beat Kansas? Heck yes. The fact is, we are 0 in the P5 win column in the past eleven years, and unlike before we have had two chances at home to win, and didn’t.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by Gonzo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:54 am

NDSU would have the same record against the P5’s we played over that stint.

I respect what they’ve accomplished but I wouldn’t trade that for our body of work. No chance.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by ah59396 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:57 am

Yosef84 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:22 am
The FCS is certainly watered down in comparison to what it once was but NDSU is legit and would have competed even in the 90's and early 2000's. No, they wouldn't have dominated as thoroughly if they had to go up against App and Georgia Southern (or Troy, WKU, Marshall if we're talking about the 90's) but they would absolutely have been in the mix. NDSU has the advantage of playing in a state with zero FBS football, so they have an inside track for recruiting. It's not a hotbed of high school football so it gets overlooked by the Big 10 to some extent. They have a very nice niche.

The fact that average fans aren't aware of the FCS championship doesn't discredit their achievement any more than it discredits ours from 2005-07).
They can only beat their competition, so I agree with you there. And 7 championships in 8 seasons is a huge achievement at any level. I also agree that the FCS is watered down immensely from what it once was.

That said, if their fans are content with Frisco every year and being a big fish in a little pond, then good on them. Nothing wrong with claiming an FCS championship every year. But I look at them the same way I look at UW-Whitewater or Valdosta State, a great team in a league they are probably playing down in, that I hear about once a year.

Honestly I’d be a little depressed as a fan knowing there’s nothing left to achieve while 128 other schools around the nation are willing to risk it all for something greater. Even if we never get there, at least we were willing to go for it.
YNWA

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by wncapp78 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:42 am

I would never trade our body of work. I’ve followed our team thru thick and thin. Been to New Hampshire, Boise, Montana, more recently New Mex State, Monroe, Lala, etc. all bowl games.
And we don’t know what they would have done against our schedule or what we would have done against theirs. But until we win against some P5 it’s hard to diminish their body of work against competition against Big 10 and Big 12. They certainly have a captive audience in their state. However the entire state population of 700,000 is roughly the size of two Hickory MSAs.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:14 pm

asu66 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:46 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:17 pm
Have to think they’d contend in the MWC immediately.
NDSU's Pres. and AD are on record for maintaining the status-quo for the foreseeable future. They've done studies on MWC travel and time away from class for all of the sports that they sponsor and the estimates, they say, are "simply out of the question." They are also not interested in any "football only" situation.
Big issue for them is money. If they refuse to move up in football only and put other sports in another conference then they have to stay. They just don't have the money to function with all the other sports in the MFC or really FBS right now. It is sad because yes they are probably getting bored.

As someone else said, what they are doing is impressive but FCS is very much watered down. Go look at the final I-AA polls from say 1990-2000 and probably 1/3 of the ranked teams have moved up or no longer have football. That is 22 more scholarships for each of those schools. The top of FCS now is what FCS has always had but the bottom 60 or so teams are what D2 use to be. Add in all the schools who have started football since that time and it really is watered down.

Final TSN regular season poll from 1995: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NCAA ... l_rankings

1. McNeese State (11–0) (78)
2. Appalachian State (11–0) (4)- FBS Sun Belt
3. Troy State (11–0) (1)- FBS Sun Belt
4. Murray State (11–0)
5. Stephen F. Austin (9–1)
6. Marshall (9–2)- FBS CUSA
7. Delaware (10–1)
8. Montana (9–2)
9. Hofstra (10–1)- No longer a program
10. Eastern Kentucky (9–2)
11. Southern (9–1)
12. Eastern Illinois (10–1)
13. James Madison (8–3)
14. Jackson State (9–2)
15. Georgia Southern (8–3)- FBS Sun Belt
16. Florida A&M (8–2)
17. Idaho (6–4)
18. Northern Iowa (7–4)
19. William & Mary (7–4)
20. Richmond (7–3–1)
21. Boise State (7–4)- FBS MWC
22. Northern Arizona (7–4)
23. Connecticut (8–3)- FBS AAC
24. Indiana State (7–4)
25. Middle Tennessee State (7–4)- FBS CUSA

8 schools and 7 of the 8 are now in FBS.

Go back to other years and you have NE Louisiana in the Sun Belt, Liberty is INDY, WKU is in CUSA, Nevada is in the MWC, and Central Florida in the AAC that were ranked as well. There are others but these are some of the big names. It is very much watered down.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by ah59396 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:12 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:14 pm
asu66 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:46 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:17 pm
Have to think they’d contend in the MWC immediately.
NDSU's Pres. and AD are on record for maintaining the status-quo for the foreseeable future. They've done studies on MWC travel and time away from class for all of the sports that they sponsor and the estimates, they say, are "simply out of the question." They are also not interested in any "football only" situation.
Final TSN regular season poll from 1995: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NCAA ... l_rankings

1. McNeese State (11–0) (78)
2. Appalachian State (11–0) (4)- FBS Sun Belt
3. Troy State (11–0) (1)- FBS Sun Belt
4. Murray State (11–0)
5. Stephen F. Austin (9–1)
6. Marshall (9–2)- FBS CUSA
7. Delaware (10–1)
8. Montana (9–2)
9. Hofstra (10–1)- No longer a program
10. Eastern Kentucky (9–2)
11. Southern (9–1)
12. Eastern Illinois (10–1)
13. James Madison (8–3)
14. Jackson State (9–2)
15. Georgia Southern (8–3)- FBS Sun Belt
16. Florida A&M (8–2)
17. Idaho (6–4)
18. Northern Iowa (7–4)
19. William & Mary (7–4)
20. Richmond (7–3–1)
21. Boise State (7–4)- FBS MWC
22. Northern Arizona (7–4)
23. Connecticut (8–3)- FBS AAC
24. Indiana State (7–4)
25. Middle Tennessee State (7–4)- FBS CUSA

8 schools and 7 of the 8 are now in FBS.

Go back to other years and you have NE Louisiana in the Sun Belt, Liberty is INDY, WKU is in CUSA, Nevada is in the MWC, and Central Florida in the AAC that were ranked as well. There are others but these are some of the big names. It is very much watered down.
That FCS actually looks exciting and competitive to be in. Especially when you would add in NDSU and EWU.

Look at the top 25 this year. https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/ ... aches-poll

Teams like Colgate, Princeton, Dartmouth, Stony Brook, INCARNATE WORD??? Some real football powerhouses there...

Reads like a D2 ranking.

Now it’s tiny public schools and 2000 student private institutions. It’s a shell of what it once was. I’m glad we moved up into a leave with our peers.
YNWA

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by appstatealum » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:22 pm

Good facts above. I'm not discounting what NDSU has done at that level, but saying they would be that dominant back at our heights of the FCS is really discounting how good a lot of the FCS programs were back then
The entire football landscape has elevated and parity is prevelant across the "meat" of the FBS level. Due to NDSUs unique program/location, they are experiencing the parity that G5 schools are, but at the FCS level. With the popularity of football at an all time high, the talent coming out of high school is more than what will fit on a P5 roster. This is why schools like App, UCF. SF. Boise etc compete consistently. With the above average talent, the right coach, running the right system, these teams can compete any given Saturday. This is relatively new though. Back 10 years ago, there was more talk about "cupcake" games and a huge gap between the Top P5s and the rest of college football. App (v. Michigan and the seamless move to FBS) and Boise were really the pioneers who illustrated the shift in college football power. There is still your "kings of the Mountain" , but the gap is closing rapidly.

NDSU has a quality coach with quality talent running a unique offense, they would be an average to above average G5, but they are definitely playing down to competition.
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Re: NDSU

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:07 pm

ah59396 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:12 pm
AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:14 pm
asu66 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:46 pm
EastHallApp wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:17 pm
Have to think they’d contend in the MWC immediately.
NDSU's Pres. and AD are on record for maintaining the status-quo for the foreseeable future. They've done studies on MWC travel and time away from class for all of the sports that they sponsor and the estimates, they say, are "simply out of the question." They are also not interested in any "football only" situation.
Final TSN regular season poll from 1995: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NCAA ... l_rankings

1. McNeese State (11–0) (78)
2. Appalachian State (11–0) (4)- FBS Sun Belt
3. Troy State (11–0) (1)- FBS Sun Belt
4. Murray State (11–0)
5. Stephen F. Austin (9–1)
6. Marshall (9–2)- FBS CUSA
7. Delaware (10–1)
8. Montana (9–2)
9. Hofstra (10–1)- No longer a program
10. Eastern Kentucky (9–2)
11. Southern (9–1)
12. Eastern Illinois (10–1)
13. James Madison (8–3)
14. Jackson State (9–2)
15. Georgia Southern (8–3)- FBS Sun Belt
16. Florida A&M (8–2)
17. Idaho (6–4)
18. Northern Iowa (7–4)
19. William & Mary (7–4)
20. Richmond (7–3–1)
21. Boise State (7–4)- FBS MWC
22. Northern Arizona (7–4)
23. Connecticut (8–3)- FBS AAC
24. Indiana State (7–4)
25. Middle Tennessee State (7–4)- FBS CUSA

8 schools and 7 of the 8 are now in FBS.

Go back to other years and you have NE Louisiana in the Sun Belt, Liberty is INDY, WKU is in CUSA, Nevada is in the MWC, and Central Florida in the AAC that were ranked as well. There are others but these are some of the big names. It is very much watered down.
That FCS actually looks exciting and competitive to be in. Especially when you would add in NDSU and EWU.

Look at the top 25 this year. https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/ ... aches-poll

Teams like Colgate, Princeton, Dartmouth, Stony Brook, INCARNATE WORD??? Some real football powerhouses there...

Reads like a D2 ranking.

Now it’s tiny public schools and 2000 student private institutions. It’s a shell of what it once was. I’m glad we moved up into a leave with our peers.
Agreed! I just wish Montana, Delaware, NDSU, JMU, Jacksonville State, and a couple others could move up and then it would be like we are in a better version of the 1990 I-AA with a couple new programs.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:14 pm

appstatealum wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:22 pm
Good facts above. I'm not discounting what NDSU has done at that level, but saying they would be that dominant back at our heights of the FCS is really discounting how good a lot of the FCS programs were back then
The entire football landscape has elevated and parity is prevelant across the "meat" of the FBS level. Due to NDSUs unique program/location, they are experiencing the parity that G5 schools are, but at the FCS level. With the popularity of football at an all time high, the talent coming out of high school is more than what will fit on a P5 roster. This is why schools like App, UCF. SF. Boise etc compete consistently. With the above average talent, the right coach, running the right system, these teams can compete any given Saturday. This is relatively new though. Back 10 years ago, there was more talk about "cupcake" games and a huge gap between the Top P5s and the rest of college football. App (v. Michigan and the seamless move to FBS) and Boise were really the pioneers who illustrated the shift in college football power. There is still your "kings of the Mountain" , but the gap is closing rapidly.

NDSU has a quality coach with quality talent running a unique offense, they would be an average to above average G5, but they are definitely playing down to competition.
Powers have really shifted. Instead of about 30-40 teams at top and it seemed like you could not break in the top 25 there seem to be 2 teams with a gape and then maybe 5-8 and another gap and then huge parity for the rest for most part. FCS is definitely watered down.

I think you have to give them credit because we started to see some arrogance settle in our program at times and NDSU has not seen that from their coaches, players, staff, etc. Winning 6 straight at any level is insanely impressive. Nobody had ever done it. Would they have been able to win 6 straight in the 90s or 2000s? Maybe not but nobody thought they would do so when they did so you never know.

I would love to see a game between this 2018 NDSU team against one of those GSU, YSU, App, Marshall, etc. teams. I think it would be interesting for sure. One of those things we can debate endlessly and never be able to settle on the field lol

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by wncapp78 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:17 pm

Things in FCS ARE different now. But for 2 of their NCs we were still active and lost to Maine and Illinois State.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by ah59396 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:35 pm

wncapp78 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:17 pm
Things in FCS ARE different now. But for 2 of their NCs we were still active and lost to Maine and Illinois State.
I have little doubt that NDSU would have won multiple championships regardless of if we had departed or not. I will say those last two years the fan base had grown apathetic and all the conversation was surrounding “when are we moving up?”


The debate isn’t “is NDSU that good?”. It’s “what is NDSU doing in the watered down FCS?”.

Go look on Anygivensaturday right now. There’s a 4 page thread regarding NDSU being in the FCS making it boring for all the other teams. Other FCS teams are tired of big NDSU beating up on the little guys. They have no business being on the same field as Incarnate Word or Stony Brook.


Let’s face it, App, Georgia Southern and NDSU are all heavyweight boxers. The only difference is two of the three are in the appropriate weight division while the other collects belts knocking out middleweights.
YNWA

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:35 pm

bigdaddyg wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:13 am
I watched a few bits and pieces yesterday. Those run plays that ended up as good gains due to bad tackling would not fly against App. NDSU gets 30 yards for the game against our D. Our offense would tear them to pieces. At the height of our FCS success I used to speculate about how we would have done in various G5 conferences. No doubt we would have competed with several G5 schools, beaten many (even with 65 scholarships) and finished with respectable records most seasons. We would have also played the final 4 or so games every year with lots of guys banged up or unavailable due to the step up in talent level.

I’d be interested to see where NDSU gets their players. Is the state of ND sending kids to P5 schools? Who does NDSU compete against for guys within 200 miles of that school?
Signed several 3-star players: https://247sports.com/college/north-dak ... l/Commits/

They beat out some G5 schools for kids. Their top guy was expected to sign with Kansas State

https://247sports.com/player/luke-weerts-46052068/

This one they just beat out FCS schools: https://247sports.com/player/hunter-poncius-46057198/

But this one they beat out Air Force, Cincinnati, and some other G5s from the MAC, etc: https://247sports.com/player/reed-ryan-46043075/

Another one who chose them over Air Force but the rest were FCS: https://247sports.com/player/will-mostaert-46054864/

I think we beat these guys but it is a good game and depth is what does it for us. I would be curious to see what the line is. Computers seem to rank them pretty high on them. Sagarin would favor them.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:37 pm

ah59396 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:35 pm
wncapp78 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:17 pm
Things in FCS ARE different now. But for 2 of their NCs we were still active and lost to Maine and Illinois State.
I have little doubt that NDSU would have won multiple championships regardless of if we had departed or not. I will say those last two years the fan base had grown apathetic and all the conversation was surrounding “when are we moving up?”


The debate isn’t “is NDSU that good?”. It’s “what is NDSU doing in the watered down FCS?”.

Go look on Anygivensaturday right now. There’s a 4 page thread regarding NDSU being in the FCS making it boring for all the other teams. Other FCS teams are tired of big NDSU beating up on the little guys. They have no business being on the same field as Incarnate Word or Stony Brook.


Let’s face it, App, Georgia Southern and NDSU are all heavyweight boxers. The only difference is two of the three are in the appropriate weight division while the other collects belts knocking out middleweights.
I agree they should move up but money is the problem. Would the MAC be willing and able to take them? I truly believe that NDSU would be a top 3 team in the MAC just about every year and probably win it 2-3 times out of a 5 year span.

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Re: NDSU

Unread post by ah59396 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:12 pm

AppStFan1 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:37 pm
ah59396 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:35 pm
wncapp78 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:17 pm
Things in FCS ARE different now. But for 2 of their NCs we were still active and lost to Maine and Illinois State.
I have little doubt that NDSU would have won multiple championships regardless of if we had departed or not. I will say those last two years the fan base had grown apathetic and all the conversation was surrounding “when are we moving up?”


The debate isn’t “is NDSU that good?”. It’s “what is NDSU doing in the watered down FCS?”.

Go look on Anygivensaturday right now. There’s a 4 page thread regarding NDSU being in the FCS making it boring for all the other teams. Other FCS teams are tired of big NDSU beating up on the little guys. They have no business being on the same field as Incarnate Word or Stony Brook.


Let’s face it, App, Georgia Southern and NDSU are all heavyweight boxers. The only difference is two of the three are in the appropriate weight division while the other collects belts knocking out middleweights.
I agree they should move up but money is the problem. Would the MAC be willing and able to take them? I truly believe that NDSU would be a top 3 team in the MAC just about every year and probably win it 2-3 times out of a 5 year span.
They would immediately be a top 10-15 G5 program with us, Boise State, UCF, etc. which is my point. They are a top tier G5 program winning FCS nattys.
YNWA

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