I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

Good luck with that one. Everts will make it a colossal mess as she has previously. Especially when you consider the west campus construction.

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

Yes the same teachers who cancel their classes on a whim or go to conferences and take time away from the kids. How will our kids ever make up the time for one class. Almost all of it can be replaced for one day online.

Most other schools with week day games cancel at least from 12 on. Heck UT cancelled that whole day to play little old App.

Goapps15 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:13 am

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

Yes the same teachers who cancel their classes on a whim or go to conferences and take time away from the kids. How will our kids ever make up the time for one class. Almost all of it can be replaced for one day online.

Most other schools with week day games cancel at least from 12 on. Heck UT cancelled that whole day to play little old App.

Going to an academic conference is a little different than cancelling class for a football game. There may be a perfectly good reason to do the latter but I don't think you can equate it with the former.

Goapps15 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:13 am

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

Yes the same teachers who cancel their classes on a whim or go to conferences and take time away from the kids. How will our kids ever make up the time for one class. Almost all of it can be replaced for one day online.

Most other schools with week day games cancel at least from 12 on. Heck UT cancelled that whole day to play little old App.

I think science labs would be about impossible to make up online. I know things have changed since I was at App but most labs require more than an internet connection. There are some simulations but that is not a replacement in most all cases.

McLeansvilleAppFan wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:09 am

Goapps15 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:13 am

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

Yes the same teachers who cancel their classes on a whim or go to conferences and take time away from the kids. How will our kids ever make up the time for one class. Almost all of it can be replaced for one day online.

Most other schools with week day games cancel at least from 12 on. Heck UT cancelled that whole day to play little old App.

I think science labs would be about impossible to make up online. I know things have changed since I was at App but most labs require more than an internet connection. There are some simulations but that is not a replacement in most all cases.

That was the reason for the almost all can be made up. Science labs are the one of the few things that cannot be.

hapapp wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:08 am

Goapps15 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:13 am

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

Yes the same teachers who cancel their classes on a whim or go to conferences and take time away from the kids. How will our kids ever make up the time for one class. Almost all of it can be replaced for one day online.

Most other schools with week day games cancel at least from 12 on. Heck UT cancelled that whole day to play little old App.

Going to an academic conference is a little different than cancelling class for a football game. There may be a perfectly good reason to do the latter but I don't think you can equate it with the former.

It was more of a point one which was I had several teachers randomly cancel class because they did not want to come up the mountain, nice/bad weather, etc. It was more meant that one class does not truly affect an entire semester.

I also stand by the academic side on the new dorms and taking away the game day atmosphere. It’s important for there to be give and take on these items between athletics and academics.

Speaking as a former high school athletic trainer and a 38 year veteran of Friday night high school football let me say two things:
1. I don't like colleges using Friday nights for their games; it takes away from the high schools' atmosphere and more importantly their bank accounts.
2. I understand the reasoning behind the colleges doing it. I just hope the academic end appreciates the loss of one class in return for the exposure.

We are talking about one night in week 11 of a 15 week semester. There is plenty of time to make contingency plans for those plans that are compromised. But by all means, let’s use that time to bitch, moan, and protest instead of coming up with a workable solution.

I think Maryland is doing the right thing with this one and App should follow suit. Prime time game on National TV against the biggest rival means a big game (maybe not in attendance numbers) and that means a desire by many for big tailgating. IGet the campus clear so the fans can park their cars and also allows the students time to get ready for a big game. Missing an afternoon class or two on a single day really isn't that big of a deal. It's not like a lot of other schools don't already do this regularly, heck, UF cancels all Friday classes every year for Homecoming.

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

I'm laughing so hard at this right now. Talk to some of the staff and you'll learn that they're never compensated for additional hours until they leave their job. From what I've learned, any OT is considered a compensation hour and they can have more than 200 of those. Think about that when you remember that each home football game is a 12+ hour day and every other home sporting event is at least 3-4 hours. You'll be swimming in compensation hours by the time Christmas hits. Not to mention that they can't just take work days off because then they can't get their job done.

I do hear that you get paid 1:1 on those OT hours when you quit though. Sounds like a great incentive to look for a new job when you realize that's the only way you can make the money you're owed.

Maybe someone who works directly for the university can confirm or deny this, but I've heard it straight from the horses mouth multiple times...

I just don't like it. I know professors and instructors miss class and sickness is nothing to hold against anyone. My Calculus I professor had a brain tumor and though she was away for medical care the class did not miss a beat. For extended illness their are ways to hold class (and some of that has changed over the years with technology.) Most conferences of a post-secondary academic nature tend to be before semesters generally start (I know AAPT does this for their winter meeting, and their summer meeting is in the summer.) With modern technology there are things that can be done online for some classes. The state AAPT meeting is a Friday evening and Saturday.

The ultimate mission of any university should be academics. If a university dropped every intercollegiate competition I doubt their accreditation would be harmed or even threatened. I imagine intramural athletics would be good enough for accreditation.

Now I will admit to not missing a mid-week or Friday game yet in football going back to Wofford and I have even been able to work out some presentations to physics classes on game day at a time I could finish my own teaching and drive to Boone. So I know I am part of the problem in a way, and as strong as I feel about this issue I might should stay away in protest. I do like to support App in all manners, but I like to have App keep their priorities straight as well. If App cancelled classes all day I most likely would not be in the stands, at least I hope I would stay away in protest. I don't mind the mid-week game in and of itself, but classes should continue until 5 pm if not all day into the evening. I am not sure how late labs run at App now but I would not be surprised if they ran until the evening. Astronomy is an 8-10 pm or 10 pm-12 am lab and has a bank of rainy-day/cloudy labs that could be done and some of those could be done away from class. I could live with a professor making class optional,maybe a paper lab in Astronomy could work, but forcing classes to be cancelled is what gets me.

But I just don't like it. I don't like it as a taxpayer, I don't like it as a parent having to pay off student loans of an App alumna, I don't like it as what may one day be the father-in-law of an App alumnus, I don't like it as am alumnus myself, I don't like it as a spouse of an alumna. I do not like forced class cancellations for athletics.

And the compromise is never to have ticker holders park away from campus, or just not tailgate one game. It really is never a compromise at all but academics shutting down, faculty and staff being forced to leave campus to give up their parking and then athletics getting what they want.

At best it is just terrible optics in my view, and at worse it does damage the educational process.

I should just save this and paste into a thread as we will have this same discussion every year going forward unless the TV market falls off the cliff and mid-week games stop. I don't see that happening for many years.

Finally, shame on Maryland for doing this.

If as a university your going to schedule the games I think you have to find a way to accommodate the fans. That may not mean closing all day but it will probably mean some time taken from class. I agree that the focus should be academics but this is a choice the university is making. I’m perfectly fine with no mid week games. But truth is, if the TV money is available we will have mid week games and I will go.

BooneKarate wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:28 am

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

I'm laughing so hard at this right now. Talk to some of the staff and you'll learn that they're never compensated for additional hours until they leave their job. From what I've learned, any OT is considered a compensation hour and they can have more than 200 of those. Think about that when you remember that each home football game is a 12+ hour day and every other home sporting event is at least 3-4 hours. You'll be swimming in compensation hours by the time Christmas hits. Not to mention that they can't just take work days off because then they can't get their job done.

I do hear that you get paid 1:1 on those OT hours when you quit though. Sounds like a great incentive to look for a new job when you realize that's the only way you can make the money you're owed.

Maybe someone who works directly for the university can confirm or deny this, but I've heard it straight from the horses mouth multiple times...

I'm not talking about OT. I come from a long line of state employees. If the admin says "the university is closed for classes, only mandatory and event staff should report", then everyone that is not one of those 2 classes has/should stay home. Unless the Board of Governors exempts it, anyone that can't/isn't approved to worked from home is REQUIRED to take Vacation Leave, Sick Leave, Comp Time, or Time Off W/O Pay. Rarely, if approved, they can work 3 x 10 hour days and a 11 hour day to "Make Up" the time. When the Univ is "closed" between Christmas and New Years, everyone has to take their time off.

Again, Only the Board of Governors can declare a closure that doesn't require employees to make up or use time.

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:15 pm

BooneKarate wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:28 am

appgrouch wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:08 am

Appstate88 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am

I would recommend App State leadership follow suit on the Halloween Night game against Stink.

I would recommend the BOG investigate App State for failing to do their jobs if they do.

Also, Athletics would need to compensate all the staff that have to use their vacation time to take off because the tailgaters, that won't show up until at least 2pm anyway, that need to be able to park starting a 6am.

I'm laughing so hard at this right now. Talk to some of the staff and you'll learn that they're never compensated for additional hours until they leave their job. From what I've learned, any OT is considered a compensation hour and they can have more than 200 of those. Think about that when you remember that each home football game is a 12+ hour day and every other home sporting event is at least 3-4 hours. You'll be swimming in compensation hours by the time Christmas hits. Not to mention that they can't just take work days off because then they can't get their job done.

I do hear that you get paid 1:1 on those OT hours when you quit though. Sounds like a great incentive to look for a new job when you realize that's the only way you can make the money you're owed.

Maybe someone who works directly for the university can confirm or deny this, but I've heard it straight from the horses mouth multiple times...

I'm not talking about OT. I come from a long line of state employees. If the admin says "the university is closed for classes, only mandatory and event staff should report", then everyone that is not one of those 2 classes has/should stay home. Unless the Board of Governors exempts it, anyone that can't/isn't approved to worked from home is REQUIRED to take Vacation Leave, Sick Leave, Comp Time, or Time Off W/O Pay. Rarely, if approved, they can work 3 x 10 hour days and a 11 hour day to "Make Up" the time. When the Univ is "closed" between Christmas and New Years, everyone has to take their time off.

Again, Only the Board of Governors can declare a closure that doesn't require employees to make up or use time.

Oh, I understand how it is supposed to work. I'd love to see it actually work that way though. Go find someone who is a necessity on an event night (communications, video production, marketing, game ops etc.) and is paid hourly (most likely the low of the totem pole). They're all racking up the OT and it's completely expected of them and never comes with any special approval. It's just more compensation hours on a time sheet.

The way it "should be" and it "outlined" only works if the managers follow it.

Tennessee closed when they played us on Thursday night.

College is every bit as much for learning and growing socially and emotionally, as it is academically. People go to college for a degree and the experience. Taking an afternoon off to socialize and support a team sport at that university is not going to inhibit either of those ultimate goals/achievements.

Many students don't have Friday classes anyway, and if they do, they are often over with early in the day.

Can't speak for the University, but for local government employees, if offices are closed due to inclement weather, they do not have to use any form of personal time off. I don't see why the university can't do something similar in this instance.

FYI- A direct quote from the Chancellor's mouth was: "That 30 second spot that runs during nationally televised games does more for App than any amount of advertising that we could afford to do."

So before we get so bent out of shape and think that cancelling classes all day or half a day is going to ruin App, think about the big picture for the University.

The adverse weather guide from HR Web Site as a guide (A football Game would be about a Cond 2):

Under current policy, campus chancellors have discretion to determine the operational status appropriate to maintain essential operations and provide for employee safety, based on winter weather conditions. These options include:

Condition 1 (Reduced Operations): The University remains open, but certain non-mandatory operations may be reduced due to more limited staffing. Mandatory employees must report to or remain at work. All other employees have the option to report late, leave early, or not work at all; however, the employee is responsible for informing his/her supervisory chain in a timely manner of all such decisions. Employees must code available leave or may be allowed to make up any work time missed during a Condition 1 event, unless the supervisor authorized off-site work arrangements or the Governor issues an Executive Order permitting leave with pay for any missed work time.
Condition 2 (Suspended Operations): The University remains open on a very limited basis, but has formally suspended all but mandatory operations due to minimal staffing levels. Employees designated or temporarily assigned as mandatory must report to work as directed; all other employees may not report to work or must leave the workplace when this status takes effect. Employees must code available leave or may be allowed to make up any work time missed during a Condition 2 event, unless the supervisor authorized off-site work arrangements or the Governor issues an Executive Order permitting leave with pay for any missed work time.
Condition 3 (Closure): Due to significant and sustained emergency conditions, University facilities are closed; this can apply to the entirety of the University or one or more specific buildings based on the type of incident involved. All or only a limited number of mandatory employees may be directed to remain at or report to work under this condition. This is intended to assure an orderly shutdown of campus facilities and to sustain only the most critical campus utilities and services. All other employees, including those who are otherwise designated as mandatory but not needed for the particular event, are not permitted to report to or remain at work. Employees shall not be required to charge leave or make-up any work time missed during a Condition 3 event, unless the duration of the event necessitates a differing decision by direction of the President or by Executive Order of the Governor.
Note that campus chancellors may not declare Condition 3 at the time of an adverse weather event. If an adverse weather event actually results in sufficiently severe conditions, we may appeal to UNC General Administration to apply the paid leave provisions applicable to Condition 3 after the fact.