ECU among the growing number of institutions faced with eliminating one or more sports

[Saint3333]

The cost of attending is the problem. With increased enrollments we should see costs to run a university per student to decrease (or slower inflation). The dramatic increase is cost of attendance is hard to understand.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked. We are setting these kids expectations too high and giving them loans to subsidize it.

[Yosef84]

Eliminate useless majors, and stop forcing students to take useless classes. I didn't even get into the bulk of my finance major classes until I already spent thousands on World Civ, Anthropology, and Chemistry.

Inflation/Stagflation as a whole is sweeping the nation at a rapid pace. Everything costs more, with no additional benefits. Those students living in the same apartments I lived in over 10 years ago are paying much more, and I guarantee you not much has changed.

You have to be careful what you consider a "useless" class. Just that it isn't directly related to your major, does not make it "useless." A university education is supposed to represent e a certain amount of general education in addition to preparedness for a particular field of study. App State isn't just a trade school after all.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Eliminate useless majors, and stop forcing students to take useless classes. I didn't even get into the bulk of my finance major classes until I already spent thousands on World Civ, Anthropology, and Chemistry.

Inflation/Stagflation as a whole is sweeping the nation at a rapid pace. Everything costs more, with no additional benefits. Those students living in the same apartments I lived in over 10 years ago are paying much more, and I guarantee you not much has changed.

This is a disappointing take to be honest. We don't all have to love every class we had to take but I would like to think this attitude is in the extreme minority in the Appalachian family.

Going to a liberal arts school means taking a broad range of classes in multiple fields. I can carry on a better conversation about economics with the class I took in that field. I appreciate theater and music much more than I would without those classes.

I doubt any of those classes really changed how I learned physics and other sciences but I am glad I was exposed to those fields. Given how so many are falling for conspiracy theories from G5 towers causing Covid to the moon landing being rigged I suggest we need more of this liberal education and not less.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

The cost of attending is the problem. With increased enrollments we should see costs to run a university per student to decrease (or slower inflation). The dramatic increase is cost of attendance is hard to understand.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked. We are setting these kids expectations too high and giving them loans to subsidize it.

GM is making many more cars per employee than they did years ago. A lot of this is due to automation. Health care and education are not jobs that can be automated to the same degree. Yes, there is plenty of bloat and some positions could be cut. Dorms do not need to be so nice but I am not sure how much of the cost is due to a dorm that is going to last decades. In an economics class I took almost 30 years ago had a discussion on this very topic.

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

Eliminate useless majors, and stop forcing students to take useless classes. I didn't even get into the bulk of my finance major classes until I already spent thousands on World Civ, Anthropology, and Chemistry.

Inflation/Stagflation as a whole is sweeping the nation at a rapid pace. Everything costs more, with no additional benefits. Those students living in the same apartments I lived in over 10 years ago are paying much more, and I guarantee you not much has changed.

This is a disappointing take to be honest. We don't all have to love every class we had to take but I would like to think this attitude is in the extreme minority in the Appalachian family.

Going to a liberal arts school means taking a broad range of classes in multiple fields. I can carry on a better conversation about economics with the class I took in that field. I appreciate theater and music much more than I would without those classes.

I doubt any of those classes really changed how I learned physics and other sciences but I am glad I was exposed to those fields. Given how so many are falling for conspiracy theories from G5 towers causing Covid to the moon landing being rigged I suggest we need more of this liberal education and not less.

Useless doesn't mean I didn't enjoy taking the class. I enjoyed everything about Appalachian State University to the fullest. However, paying for it now with interest puts the relevance into perspective. If there was a university that offered the same degree I have, however didn't require the classes I was required to take outside of my major, we both graduate with the same degree, however mine cost much more. Fast forward and me and that other person apply for the same job, both with the same degree listed on the resume and assuming we have equivalent work experience. The only thing that separates us at that point is the interview.

[Saint3333]

The cost of attending is the problem. With increased enrollments we should see costs to run a university per student to decrease (or slower inflation). The dramatic increase is cost of attendance is hard to understand.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked. We are setting these kids expectations too high and giving them loans to subsidize it.

GM is making many more cars per employee than they did years ago. A lot of this is due to automation. Health care and education are not jobs that can be automated to the same degree. Yes, there is plenty of bloat and some positions could be cut. Dorms do not need to be so nice but I am not sure how much of the cost is due to a dorm that is going to last decades. In an economics class I took almost 30 years ago had a discussion on this very topic.

You don't need to automate jobs to reduce costs per "unit". Fixed costs/overhead per capita should shrink as enrollment grows. Education costs have grown disproportionately.

Out of curiosity what grade and subjects do you teach?

[APPdiesel]

On the topic of regional realignment from ECU’s perspective, joining a newly formed league or joining/rejoining Sunbelt/C-USA can’t look like a viable option. Regardless of travel savings the drop off in league revenue distribution would be so great it would stop that conversation in its tracks. Would some of their fans like being in a league with Marshall, App, ODU, and Charlotte? Sure, but unless this mythical league X came out of the gate with a fat TV check they wouldn’t be able to afford to leave the AAC.

For them it would have to be “regionalize all sports but football. Leave that where it is”

Some would. It’s not difficult to summizs that the slice of AAC pie is replacing ticket revenue and not adding to it. They have gone from 22k season tickets as a CUSA member to a current <5k for the coming season.

Oh no doubt. I'm sure there are much smarter people than I who are crunching numbers, calculating travel savings, predicting single game ticket sales and season ticket sales in league "x" vs where they are now.

[appst89]

The cost of attending is the problem. With increased enrollments we should see costs to run a university per student to decrease (or slower inflation). The dramatic increase is cost of attendance is hard to understand.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked. We are setting these kids expectations too high and giving them loans to subsidize it.

GM is making many more cars per employee than they did years ago. A lot of this is due to automation. Health care and education are not jobs that can be automated to the same degree. Yes, there is plenty of bloat and some positions could be cut. Dorms do not need to be so nice but I am not sure how much of the cost is due to a dorm that is going to last decades. In an economics class I took almost 30 years ago had a discussion on this very topic.

You don't need to automate jobs to reduce costs per "unit". Fixed costs/overhead per capita should shrink as enrollment grows. Education costs have grown disproportionately.

Out of curiosity what grade and subjects do you teach?

I read an excellent article about Purdue and this very subject. Their president has mandated that in-state tuition will not exceed $10,000 per year, and they've held that line for several years in a row. All the while, they have increased enrollment and added academic programs and faculty. It can be done, there just isn't the will to do it.

[Yosef84]

I'm not going to copy any particular post because I'm not trying to discredit or counter any of the points being made, however it does seem important to inject that App State is one of the most affordable universities in the country, especially when considering the quality of the education. There are always things that could be improved and costs of education certainly continue to rise but App has done better than most at controlling this issue.

[GregPercussion]

#GivetoYosefClub

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

The cost of attending is the problem. With increased enrollments we should see costs to run a university per student to decrease (or slower inflation). The dramatic increase is cost of attendance is hard to understand.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked. We are setting these kids expectations too high and giving them loans to subsidize it.

GM is making many more cars per employee than they did years ago. A lot of this is due to automation. Health care and education are not jobs that can be automated to the same degree. Yes, there is plenty of bloat and some positions could be cut. Dorms do not need to be so nice but I am not sure how much of the cost is due to a dorm that is going to last decades. In an economics class I took almost 30 years ago had a discussion on this very topic.

You don't need to automate jobs to reduce costs per "unit". Fixed costs/overhead per capita should shrink as enrollment grows. Education costs have grown disproportionately.

Out of curiosity what grade and subjects do you teach?

My area of expertise, if I have one, is physics. I teach a lot of chemistry due to physics enrollment at every school I have every been at versus other subjects. I also teach earth/environmental science to mostly ninth graders. I try and stay away from the life sciences. I know I don't know enough about those fields to do them justice. Technically I think I could teach mathematics due to having a mathematics minor but I have luckily have never had to do that.

It would be nice to see why and where the growth in jobs at the university level has occurred since I left App State in 1992. Is the increase in student facing jobs or deep behind the scenes?

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Eliminate useless majors, and stop forcing students to take useless classes. I didn't even get into the bulk of my finance major classes until I already spent thousands on World Civ, Anthropology, and Chemistry.

Inflation/Stagflation as a whole is sweeping the nation at a rapid pace. Everything costs more, with no additional benefits. Those students living in the same apartments I lived in over 10 years ago are paying much more, and I guarantee you not much has changed.

This is a disappointing take to be honest. We don't all have to love every class we had to take but I would like to think this attitude is in the extreme minority in the Appalachian family.

Going to a liberal arts school means taking a broad range of classes in multiple fields. I can carry on a better conversation about economics with the class I took in that field. I appreciate theater and music much more than I would without those classes.

I doubt any of those classes really changed how I learned physics and other sciences but I am glad I was exposed to those fields. Given how so many are falling for conspiracy theories from G5 towers causing Covid to the moon landing being rigged I suggest we need more of this liberal education and not less.

Useless doesn't mean I didn't enjoy taking the class. I enjoyed everything about Appalachian State University to the fullest. However, paying for it now with interest puts the relevance into perspective. If there was a university that offered the same degree I have, however didn't require the classes I was required to take outside of my major, we both graduate with the same degree, however mine cost much more. Fast forward and me and that other person apply for the same job, both with the same degree listed on the resume and assuming we have equivalent work experience. The only thing that separates us at that point is the interview.

I do agree there should and could be some other options where one can learn what is needed for a job, but I would not want to give it the same degree title if the course work is not comparable and if you cut out 40 or 50 hours I don't think it would be comparable. If the perspective employer is OK with those other credentials then all the better and if not then so be it. There is a difference between a BA and BS degree, at least in the sciences, and that is fine. Most places of employment would not care which degree you hold and maybe some world, but there is that option as a student. You make a valid point but it needs to be a different degree. Maybe something between an Associates and Bachelors and I think that is a fine idea.

[/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09]

Eliminate useless majors, and stop forcing students to take useless classes. I didn't even get into the bulk of my finance major classes until I already spent thousands on World Civ, Anthropology, and Chemistry.

Inflation/Stagflation as a whole is sweeping the nation at a rapid pace. Everything costs more, with no additional benefits. Those students living in the same apartments I lived in over 10 years ago are paying much more, and I guarantee you not much has changed.

This is a disappointing take to be honest. We don't all have to love every class we had to take but I would like to think this attitude is in the extreme minority in the Appalachian family.

Going to a liberal arts school means taking a broad range of classes in multiple fields. I can carry on a better conversation about economics with the class I took in that field. I appreciate theater and music much more than I would without those classes.

I doubt any of those classes really changed how I learned physics and other sciences but I am glad I was exposed to those fields. Given how so many are falling for conspiracy theories from G5 towers causing Covid to the moon landing being rigged I suggest we need more of this liberal education and not less.

Useless doesn't mean I didn't enjoy taking the class. I enjoyed everything about Appalachian State University to the fullest. However, paying for it now with interest puts the relevance into perspective. If there was a university that offered the same degree I have, however didn't require the classes I was required to take outside of my major, we both graduate with the same degree, however mine cost much more. Fast forward and me and that other person apply for the same job, both with the same degree listed on the resume and assuming we have equivalent work experience. The only thing that separates us at that point is the interview.

I do agree there should and could be some other options where one can learn what is needed for a job, but I would not want to give it the same degree title if the course work is not comparable and if you cut out 40 or 50 hours I don't think it would be comparable. If the perspective employer is OK with those other credentials then all the better and if not then so be it. There is a difference between a BA and BS degree, at least in the sciences, and that is fine. Most places of employment would not care which degree you hold and maybe some world, but there is that option as a student. You make a valid point but it needs to be a different degree. Maybe something between an Associates and Bachelors and I think that is a fine idea.

I didn't mean to ruffle feathers, just speaking from a personal angle of the situation.

[GreatAppSt]

college Expenses have grown so much over the last 20 years much higher percentage increases than other sectors of the economy.

This isn’t just in sports. Quite the bubble they’ve created. Student loans have been an underlying issue that is cracking.

From my senior year at App, in-state tuition has increased 300% and out-of-state tuition has increased 370%. There is no reason for the cost of a college education to have increased like that.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked.

It's an Arms race for the future plain and simple. ( Shang Grala's for sale http://www.highpoint.edu/ ) Spending till destruction is possible, ask the Soviets.

[Yosef10]

Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?

Football wise we could compete in the AAC. Not as confident about other sports. Financially I don't think we're close to being ready for that step.

I'm all in for a realignment to create regional conferences. It would reduce travel costs and possibly increase revenue for gameday with more away teams fans traveling to attend.

Competing with the AAC in football isn’t the issue. Would you sell more tickets? ECU set a goal of 16k for season tickets for next season, they reduced that goal to 10k and have sold less than half that to date. According to their 24/7 site.

But there’s context to that. 5 losing seasons and a pandemic that is clouding the certainty of a football season. They had around 14k for the 2019 season.

[AppSt94]

Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?

Football wise we could compete in the AAC. Not as confident about other sports. Financially I don't think we're close to being ready for that step.

I'm all in for a realignment to create regional conferences. It would reduce travel costs and possibly increase revenue for gameday with more away teams fans traveling to attend.

Competing with the AAC in football isn’t the issue. Would you sell more tickets? ECU set a goal of 16k for season tickets for next season, they reduced that goal to 10k and have sold less than half that to date. According to their 24/7 site.

But there’s context to that. 5 losing seasons and a pandemic that is clouding the certainty of a football season. They had around 14k for the 2019 season.

For reference, does anyone know where we are this year in comparison to last year?

[Yosef10]

Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?

What they are saying is they’re going to have around a $10M loss this year, to be sustainable in the AAC they believe they need to get the loss down to 4-6M/year to be sustainable. If we’re being honest, the AAC didn’t put ECU into the situation they are currently. Jeff Compher did. There’s a long laundry list of things he did that hurt ECU, but perhaps the dumbest one was to build a $60M press box/luxury suites. In 2018 he projected that tower to bring in $43M over the next 30 years. New projections now have that tower losing them over $6M over the next 30 years. The biggest financial questions as it pertains to App joining the AAC is paying exit/entry fees to the conferences and then keeping up with the rest of the conference with the budget we have, which could be tough.

[Yosef10]

Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?

Football wise we could compete in the AAC. Not as confident about other sports. Financially I don't think we're close to being ready for that step.

I'm all in for a realignment to create regional conferences. It would reduce travel costs and possibly increase revenue for gameday with more away teams fans traveling to attend.

Competing with the AAC in football isn’t the issue. Would you sell more tickets? ECU set a goal of 16k for season tickets for next season, they reduced that goal to 10k and have sold less than half that to date. According to their 24/7 site.

But there’s context to that. 5 losing seasons and a pandemic that is clouding the certainty of a football season. They had around 14k for the 2019 season.

For reference, does anyone know where we are this year in comparison to last year?

So we had about 7500 last year, they have about 4500 now. I can’t imagine we’re much further past 4500 if we even are.

[mikeyosef]

college Expenses have grown so much over the last 20 years much higher percentage increases than other sectors of the economy.

This isn’t just in sports. Quite the bubble they’ve created. Student loans have been an underlying issue that is cracking.

From my senior year at App, in-state tuition has increased 300% and out-of-state tuition has increased 370%. There is no reason for the cost of a college education to have increased like that.

The luxury dorms, bloated staffing, student centers that provide every service. Often times it takes students a dozen years to achieve the standard of living they enjoy while attending college in the real world, if ever achieved.

The 10 x 10 cinder block wall of Coltrane worked.

It's an Arms race for the future plain and simple. ( Shang Grala's for sale http://www.highpoint.edu/ ) Spending till destruction is possible, ask the Soviets.

Yes it is an arms race. There's also been easy money to borrow and a real sales job on the difference in earning potential between college grads and those with High School diplomas. The way it's positioned going into debt to earn a degree is made out to be the smart choice and the truth is it really was very much a no brainer when I graduated in the 80s. That's allowed Colleges and Universities to justify ever increasing tuition and fees. Add to that reduced State support from our legislature, the need to offer more and more amenities to attract the best students and you have costs GROSSLY out-pacing increases in the cost of living. While education is still the best predictor of an individual's earnings and future lifestyle and APP is a fantastic value, even at today's prices, something has to give. It should be clear to everyone the cost of attending a traditional University, like the increasing cost of healthcare is NOT sustainable.

As for our athletics, I've had concern for some time that we have been right at the edge of what's possible sustainability-wise. It's been noted that a few down years in football would be detrimental to the athletic budget and we have already seen declining attendance. Don't get me wrong here, I've been for everything the department has done to date but this unprecedented recession/depression or whatever you want to call it is really going to strain our athletic department and our University. If you have the ability to donate to both, now is a good time to step up to the plate.

[AppStFan1]

Something of interest from their 24/7 Board, the meeting of the BoT spoke of the costs attributing to the deficit were occurred from being in the AAC. I believe that amount to be north of $4 million. If accurate, that begs to address two questions; 1) does this change ones desire to join the AAC? And 2) does EZU look to bolt for a more regional conference to reduce expenses?

I still want to join the AAC if things were to stay the same but things can't stay the same. All 5 leagues need to look to be regional. There is no reason why App State should not be in the same conference today as Marshall, Georgia Southern, East Carolina, MTSU, Charlotte, Troy, ODU, UAB, etc type schools. Having all of the G5 schools get together and realign in a major way so travel and other expenses would drop just makes too much sense. App, ECU, Charlotte, etc have no business having to go play UTEP, Texas State, etc in football or any other sport. In fact, for sports like soccer, field hockey, tennis, volleyball, golf, etc we should be in a conference made up of schools only from NC, SC, VA, GA, and east TN or southeastern KY if possible. I have thought this for years and I hope the COVID-19 situation will force these schools to actually make decisions that are 20 years overdue.