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I think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
We have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
When you say upgrade KBS what exactly are you thinking about given the limitations of the geography?Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:51 amWe have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
Agree with all above. I have been on the lighting bandwagon for several years. Have posted about viewing an App. St game on on espn channels and EasyU playing on another ESPN channel. I flipped back to EasyU on commercial breaks. The lighting made us look like we were playing in the dark as compared to EasyU. Personally, this impacts recruiting to me as we look small school with the lighting. In addition to your above, for both home and visitors, install individual seating as UNC did. Reduces capacity but make GameDay experience so much better. For our stadium, may cause an issue as the "in between" rows are so tight. This is just theory ideas for fun. This is why I said increase capacity by 10 to 15 as this idea around seating actually reduces capacity. Most schools are seeing declining attendance. As such, gameday experience needs to make it worth the while. They can say what they want, however this is why unc went to individual seating. The other idea besides lighting that may be manageable as seating change is not with our current economic environment... Is to figure out a way to get TV cameras in place so it does not appear like game is being filmed from Howard's Knob...kornegaylw wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:08 amWhen you say upgrade KBS what exactly are you thinking about given the limitations of the geography?Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:51 amWe have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
Here are my thoughts
1. LED flood lights that can dim and flicker (This should be a priority, it's so cool)
2. Bowl in north & south endzone.
3. Lower field so seats can be closer.
4. Visitor side upper deck gets a suites
A deeper look into my 'fantasy land' as you so kindly put in.Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:51 amWe have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
I don't know why. But, I find MACtion games to be more entertaining the PAC or most Big 10 games. Perhaps it's the lack of defense (although I love a good defensive game).Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
While its all opinion or a 'fantasy land' as no one can know for sure, i would point to TCU, Utah and Louisville as good examples of how the step up is not so wild as our minds think. These 3 sides were definitively mid major programs in the mid 2000s. Louisville was solid, Utah and TCU were top teir 'g5s'. They seamlessly transitioned into the power 5 leagues as strong sides. Boise and UCF are just as good, likely stronger than any of those teams were before they moved up...I would argue App State is in that conversation of teams...just with a far weaker bowl history due to poor sunbelt tie ins.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 pmA deeper look into my 'fantasy land' as you so kindly put in.Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:51 amWe have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
I'm not sure the time frame in which you lived in LA, but in my opinion this is a very recent development. 10 years ago I would agree with you. Today? I do not. I do not think UCLA and USC athletes today would boatrace App State, UCF, Marshall, Louisiana and teams of the like. A marked difference exist than did just a short time ago. Recruiting rankings are statistically useless outside of the top 15 recruiting classes or so and plenty of strong non p5 teams (BYU, Navy, App State, San Diego State) have found niche types of players that allow there teams to far exceed recruiting rankings by seeking specific types of players that fit their scheme and culture. There are p5 programs who are not recruiting leaders AND have no winning culture (Virginia, Cal, Missouri, Kansas State, Northwestern to name a few) who are able to consistently compete at the lower to mid levels of these leagues...to think App State wouldn't be stronger? I'm not so sure.
While its all opinion or a 'fantasy land' as no one can know for sure, i would point to TCU, Utah and Louisville as good examples of how the step up is not so wild as our minds think. These 3 sides were definitively mid major programs in the mid 2000s. Louisville was solid, Utah and TCU were top teir 'g5s'. They seamlessly transitioned into the power 5 leagues as strong sides. Boise and UCF are just as good, likely stronger than any of those teams were before they moved up...I would argue App State is in that conversation of teams...just with a far weaker bowl history due to poor sunbelt tie ins.
I also believe they transitioned into more balanced and top to bottom strong leagues than the p5 has today. I think the top 5-7 g5 programs (not necessarily teams this year, but programs overall) would wreak alot more havoc in the p5 than people realize.
Just my 2 cents.
Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:34 pmWhile its all opinion or a 'fantasy land' as no one can know for sure, i would point to TCU, Utah and Louisville as good examples of how the step up is not so wild as our minds think. These 3 sides were definitively mid major programs in the mid 2000s. Louisville was solid, Utah and TCU were top teir 'g5s'. They seamlessly transitioned into the power 5 leagues as strong sides. Boise and UCF are just as good, likely stronger than any of those teams were before they moved up...I would argue App State is in that conversation of teams...just with a far weaker bowl history due to poor sunbelt tie ins.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 pmA deeper look into my 'fantasy land' as you so kindly put in.Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:51 amWe have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 amI think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
I'm not sure the time frame in which you lived in LA, but in my opinion this is a very recent development. 10 years ago I would agree with you. Today? I do not. I do not think UCLA and USC athletes today would boatrace App State, UCF, Marshall, Louisiana and teams of the like. A marked difference exist than did just a short time ago. Recruiting rankings are statistically useless outside of the top 15 recruiting classes or so and plenty of strong non p5 teams (BYU, Navy, App State, San Diego State) have found niche types of players that allow there teams to far exceed recruiting rankings by seeking specific types of players that fit their scheme and culture. There are p5 programs who are not recruiting leaders AND have no winning culture (Virginia, Cal, Missouri, Kansas State, Northwestern to name a few) who are able to consistently compete at the lower to mid levels of these leagues...to think App State wouldn't be stronger? I'm not so sure.
While its all opinion or a 'fantasy land' as no one can know for sure, i would point to TCU, Utah and Louisville as good examples of how the step up is not so wild as our minds think. These 3 sides were definitively mid major programs in the mid 2000s. Louisville was solid, Utah and TCU were top teir 'g5s'. They seamlessly transitioned into the power 5 leagues as strong sides. Boise and UCF are just as good, likely stronger than any of those teams were before they moved up...I would argue App State is in that conversation of teams...just with a far weaker bowl history due to poor sunbelt tie ins.
I also believe they transitioned into more balanced and top to bottom strong leagues than the p5 has today. I think the top 5-7 g5 programs (not necessarily teams this year, but programs overall) would wreak alot more havoc in the p5 than people realize.
Just my 2 cents.
I would be interested to know what their football budgets were prior to P5. Utah is one of the flagship universities of Utah (BYU the other.. Not much competition in state for dollars). Louisville is one of two flagship universities in Kentucky. At time of transition, I would believe that football budgets for both were significant higher with related booster support given less competition from other P5 schools in state. As it relates to TCU, a private school in crazy football state, that one I have not tracked. I would assume the booster support was more than what we have considering they are in Dallas/ Fort Worth area. Not sure these are equal comparisons.
No clue what your talking about. I did it watch a single down of the uab/mu game. So it was not me that commented or commented on that item... Could be on the thread for something else. Not arguing at all. Just my opinion. With current state of affairs (we have what we have and same level of recruits), App St is not finishing in the top 3 in PAC 12 year in and year out... Not 10 years ago, 5 years ago or today. That is mu opinion. Everybody has one.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:31 pmTbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:34 pmWhile its all opinion or a 'fantasy land' as no one can know for sure, i would point to TCU, Utah and Louisville as good examples of how the step up is not so wild as our minds think. These 3 sides were definitively mid major programs in the mid 2000s. Louisville was solid, Utah and TCU were top teir 'g5s'. They seamlessly transitioned into the power 5 leagues as strong sides. Boise and UCF are just as good, likely stronger than any of those teams were before they moved up...I would argue App State is in that conversation of teams...just with a far weaker bowl history due to poor sunbelt tie ins.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:55 pmA deeper look into my 'fantasy land' as you so kindly put in.Tbatchelor1977 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:51 amWe have one recruiting class in top 65 and we are making the biggest gains in recruiting. I love App. St. However, I lived in Lala land for 3 years and went to many UCLA and USC games. As such, was able to see opponents as well as the home team athletes. App. St. with the current talent level would not finish in top 3 year in and year out. Oregon, Stanford, Utah and even USC would win the match up year in and year out. Then the bottom half would be our competition and we maybe go. 500 at best. That puts us in the lower to bottom of conference. If we play a median to lower team in PAC 12 once a year, maybe we have an opportunity. But week in and week out, not going to happen...my opinion is based upon our current recruiting, current budget to recruit, etc. Now if we change the scenario.. give us the recruiting budgets, budgets to to some significant stadium upgrades to home and visitors side of stadium (not necessarily seat additions, we'll maybe 10 to 15K)...i would be all in on your thoughts. I believe Boone is a special place. Could sell the college town atmosphere where football rules. As of now, I cannot live I your fantasy land.Tatedc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:27 am
I think the p5/g5 gap is tremendously overstated...even by g5 fans. In recent years the biggest gains in talent have gone to the top p5s (Clemson, Alabama, LSU, ect.) And the top g5s (UCF, App State, Cincinnati, Louisiana ect.). The mid to lower p5s are worse and the lower g5s are worse.
I truly believe App State (and other top g5s) would generally finish top 3 in the Pac 12 and Big 12, top 4 in the ACC and Big 10 and 7-10 in the SEC.
Its becoming more apparent, and while the playoff committee doesn't care yet...the national media polls get it. When they show they would have no problem ranking 3 sun belt teams in a year, more strides have been made than we sometimes acknowledge.
Also...the MAC is terrible. Should be in FCS.
Merry Christmas
I'm not sure the time frame in which you lived in LA, but in my opinion this is a very recent development. 10 years ago I would agree with you. Today? I do not. I do not think UCLA and USC athletes today would boatrace App State, UCF, Marshall, Louisiana and teams of the like. A marked difference exist than did just a short time ago. Recruiting rankings are statistically useless outside of the top 15 recruiting classes or so and plenty of strong non p5 teams (BYU, Navy, App State, San Diego State) have found niche types of players that allow there teams to far exceed recruiting rankings by seeking specific types of players that fit their scheme and culture. There are p5 programs who are not recruiting leaders AND have no winning culture (Virginia, Cal, Missouri, Kansas State, Northwestern to name a few) who are able to consistently compete at the lower to mid levels of these leagues...to think App State wouldn't be stronger? I'm not so sure.
While its all opinion or a 'fantasy land' as no one can know for sure, i would point to TCU, Utah and Louisville as good examples of how the step up is not so wild as our minds think. These 3 sides were definitively mid major programs in the mid 2000s. Louisville was solid, Utah and TCU were top teir 'g5s'. They seamlessly transitioned into the power 5 leagues as strong sides. Boise and UCF are just as good, likely stronger than any of those teams were before they moved up...I would argue App State is in that conversation of teams...just with a far weaker bowl history due to poor sunbelt tie ins.
I also believe they transitioned into more balanced and top to bottom strong leagues than the p5 has today. I think the top 5-7 g5 programs (not necessarily teams this year, but programs overall) would wreak alot more havoc in the p5 than people realize.
Just my 2 cents.
I would be interested to know what their football budgets were prior to P5. Utah is one of the flagship universities of Utah (BYU the other.. Not much competition in state for dollars). Louisville is one of two flagship universities in Kentucky. At time of transition, I would believe that football budgets for both were significant higher with related booster support given less competition from other P5 schools in state. As it relates to TCU, a private school in crazy football state, that one I have not tracked. I would assume the booster support was more than what we have considering they are in Dallas/ Fort Worth area. Not sure these are equal comparisons.
Athletic Budgets year before move to P5:
Louisville - $92,000,000
Utah - $49,000,000
TCU - $21,000,000
Current Athletic Budgets
UCF - $61,000,000
Memphis - $55,000,000
Boise State - $48,000,000
App State - $38,000,000
Marshall - $31,000,000
Again, its not what our brain naturally thinks...but its comparable. Not to mention UL and Utah invested alot more into hoop ball than App does.
BTW I just realized that you were the one who noted Marshall and UAB looked to have superior athletes than USC and Oregon. At this point I think you just like to argue lol