The Carolina Way (Cont'd)

[Saint3333]

Where does this scandal rank between to SMU paying players (two year of no team) and Penn State hiding a child rapist (slap on the wrist). I say UNC-CH needs the "death penalty" but doubt they'd get more than a post season ban for both sports and maybe some vacated wins (or maybe MBB titles).

Nothing tops abusing children, nothing.

When deciding between paying players or cheating academically, I believe academic fraud is worse. The purpose of college is to educate first and foremost. Academic fraud cheapen the mission statement of the university.

[appdaze]

Where does this scandal rank between to SMU paying players (two year of no team) and Penn State hiding a child rapist (slap on the wrist). I say UNC-CH needs the "death penalty" but doubt they'd get more than a post season ban for both sports and maybe some vacated wins (or maybe MBB titles).

Nothing tops abusing children, nothing.

When deciding between paying players or cheating academically, I believe academic fraud is worse. The purpose of college is to educate first and foremost. Academic fraud cheapen the mission statement of the university.

Its hard to compare penn state to the other issues because the players werent a part of that. That was a coaching staff and administration thing as well as the worst criminal act exposed in ncaa history. SMU and UNC are more comparable. UNC deserves the death penalty but they make too much money for the powers that be so I doubt a death penalty will happen.

[MAD Doctor]

From CNN.com:

Gerald Gurney, president of the Drake Group, whose mission is "to defend academic integrity in higher education from the corrosive aspects of commercialized college sports," said the findings should provide fodder for the NCAA to levy one of its most severe charges against UNC: lack of institutional control.

"I can safely say that the scope of the 20-year UNC fraud scandal easily takes the prize for the largest and most nefarious scandal in the history of NCAA enforcement. The depth and breadth of the scheme -- involving counselors, coaches, academic administrators, faculty, athletic administrators, et cetera -- eclipses any previous case," Gurney said.

[appbio91]

Where does this scandal rank between to SMU paying players (two year of no team) and Penn State hiding a child rapist (slap on the wrist). I say UNC-CH needs the "death penalty" but doubt they'd get more than a post season ban for both sports and maybe some vacated wins (or maybe MBB titles).

UNC-Pembroke will get two years probation and Elizabeth City St. will lose some of their recruiting budget.

This has a greater chance of happening than any meaningful NCAA sanctions against the baby blue poster child.

[fjblair]

Where does this scandal rank between to SMU paying players (two year of no team) and Penn State hiding a child rapist (slap on the wrist). I say UNC-CH needs the "death penalty" but doubt they'd get more than a post season ban for both sports and maybe some vacated wins (or maybe MBB titles).

Nothing tops abusing children, nothing.

When deciding between paying players or cheating academically, I believe academic fraud is worse. The purpose of college is to educate first and foremost. Academic fraud cheapen the mission statement of the university.

Nothing tops child abuse but that is not indicative of the problem with college athletics. The Penn State scandal was one man who is a perverted predator, it is a fluke. The press can get much more mileage out of that type of scandal than one like UNC. It makes for seedy CNN coverage and offends the sensibilities of people who have never watched a college football or basketball game. The UNC thing is institutionalized and exposes much more of the underbelly of big time college sports than the Sandusky story and in the long run does much more damage to the NCAA and the higher education system in general.

[JTApps1]

I believe the standard has been set through many NCAA rulings over the years that any serious academic scandal results in vacating all wins during the year of the infraction. With that in mind UNC-CH should have to forfeit every win in football and basketball dating back to 1993. Add to that some scholarship reductions for several seasons. It probably won't happen but that punishment would certainly fit the crime.

[moehler]

before the report came out yesterday, Chapel Hill was pretty much in the clear, both them and the NCAA just wanted this to go away, now that the story has gone national, NBC, ESPN ran a piece today, the NCAA has no choice but to punish them severely, if for no other reason, just to save their reputation. They will not get the death penalty, but because of the time frame involved, 18 plus years, and over 3000 students, they have to hit them pretty hard.

[WVAPPeer]

I just don't think they will levy any wrong-doing against the basketball program (other than some strong words) - Roy has covered his butt pretty good on this and maybe he didn't know as I will not pass judgment - The top holes would take a bullet before they would see the basketball team get tarnished - None will want to be known with the legacy of taking down the BB team - Nobody really gives a big hoot about football - it's hard to take something away that was never obtained - not even a conference championship for what - 33 years ---

[moehler]

Roy's problem is for many years he had no problem with his kids taking the bogus classes, then, if you believe him, he just woke up one day, and for no apparent reason, decided the steer his kids away from those classes. Why? He is going to get asked that question, should be a really interesting answer. But, I do agree with you, the basketball program will be protected at all costs, Roy will be protected at all costs, and if a program is to be sacrificed it will be the football

[AppfaninCAALand]

Thousands of students over two decades. How many degrees were awarded with credits from fraudulent classes? Could the university actually be facing an accreditation issues? As much as I hate the Tar Holes, that would still be bad.

[T-Dog]

Thousands of students over two decades. How many degrees were awarded with credits from fraudulent classes? Could the university actually be facing an accreditation issues? As much as I hate the Tar Holes, that would still be bad.

That might end up being a bigger issue than anything the NCAA does. I bet SACS isn't happy.

[firemoose]

Thousands of students over two decades. How many degrees were awarded with credits from fraudulent classes? Could the university actually be facing an accreditation issues? As much as I hate the Tar Holes, that would still be bad.

That might end up being a bigger issue than anything the NCAA does. I bet SACS isn't happy.

Been wondering where they have been in all this myself. They crawled into every crevice and all over App for several weeks with a magnifying glass and a microscope last year before finally giving reaccreditation. I know at least one College that has to flag and report any class that has more than 25% of the students who are athletes. Reaccreditation is done every 10 years so CH has to have had at least one reaccreditation since all this was going on.

SACS has to investigate this. And if they knew of this and did nothing then they need to be investigated themselves.

[AppinVA]

Nice front by the News and Record, today.

http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages ... p_id=NC_NR

[DoubleA]

Although it made me sick to the stomach to learn the extent and duration of UNC's misdeeds, I found certain parts of the report to be comical. I was in stiches when reading the part about AFAM independent study classes making their way into the frat circles; and then the culprits became concerned that growing popularity of AFAM courses was leading to swelling course demand, and threatened to crowd out those most in need (athletes) of a "GPA boost". The culprits went so far as to deny enrollment to those viewed as slackers, and not necessarily in academic need. One fraternity brother reportedly took so many AFAM courses, he inadvertently ended up with an AFAM minor. Ha! Hate it when that happens! Then there was the poor Morehead Scholar, who found himself on the GPA fence, in danger of losing his scholarship, and turned to AFAM for the much needed GPA boost. Priceless!

[tjpappy]

I just don't think they will levy any wrong-doing against the basketball program (other than some strong words) - Roy has covered his butt pretty good on this and maybe he didn't know as I will not pass judgment - The top holes would take a bullet before they would see the basketball team get tarnished - None will want to be known with the legacy of taking down the BB team - Nobody really gives a big hoot about football - it's hard to take something away that was never obtained - not even a conference championship for what - 33 years ---

It will be interesting to see what happens to Men's BB. Although there were perhaps four times as many football players than basketball players taking these classes, based on the vast difference in size of roster, a larger proportion of the BB players may have taken these classes than FB players. Therefore the basketball roster may have been benefited from this even more than football.

These were the findings by a UNC-initiated investigation. It does seem that pains were taken in the official statements to distance Men's BB from the scandal. I wonder if NCAA is going to dig deeper and interview former players who may be willing to talk.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Nice front by the News and Record, today.

http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages ... p_id=NC_NR

Tim Rickard does the graphics for the N&R and did the black-eye ram. He also does Brewster Rockit comic strip, which I really enjoy.

http://www.gocomics.com/brewsterrockit

Off the topic of the UNC-CH scandal, but wanted to mention Tim Rickard.

[Black Saturday]

What gets lost is how racist this whole thing is as well.

Reverse discrimination.

There is no such thing, it is just called discrimination.

google reverse discriminination

there are many entries

reverse discrimination


noun1.
Reverse discrimination is defined as engaging in actions that have a negative impact or that disfavor someone who was traditionally in a majority position.

An example of reverse discrimination is when a school system automatically lets in women instead of men, even when the men are far more qualified in terms of grades and credentials.

YourDictionary definition and usage example. Copyright © 2014 by LoveToKnow Corp

[ASUMountaineer]

I not sure if its raciest, the classes were taken not only by athletes, but also normal students with no ties to the athletic dept, they didn't break the numbers down, but it looks like it was the "little secret around campus", need a quick A, take these courses. The lead independent investigator said he found absolutely no evidence the administration knew what was going on. This is amazing to me, either they were really good at covering it up, or, they were total idiots, who had lost control over the depts. Its hard to believe that over a 10 period, and that many students taking the courses that word didn't get to the upper administration about what was going on. Either way this is a national embarrassment to them.

The administration, athletic department, and coaches not knowing that rampant academic fraud was going on sounds like the NCAA's famed "lack of institutional control" to me.

[appbio91]

Then there was the poor Morehead Scholar, who found himself on the GPA fence, in danger of losing his scholarship, and turned to AFAM for the much needed GPA boost. Priceless!

This truly makes me want to puke. My hatred of UNC is solidified.

[huskie3]

I think most coaches really do not know the specifics of courses their athletes take. They have an academic department with tutors and advisers who handle those things. Are they aware that some of the courses are independent/individual study courses, yes they are for the most part (especially those sports that involve a lot of travel). I think the big elephant in the room that limited over site is the department involved. The AFAM was designed with minority students in mind (recruitment and social relevance), therefore many were afraid to complain when it became obvious that things were not as they should be.
No, I am not a closet tar heel fan, I have always been open about my ties to the UNC Women's Basketball so don't start ripping.