The Carolina Way (Cont'd)

[WVAPPeer]

again, I will post this quote ---

"Ten of the 15 players on North Carolina's 2005 national championship men's basketball team were AFAM majors. North Carolina coach Roy Williams told investigators he was "uncomfortable" early on about his players' heavy use of AFAM classes, but he denied knowing the paper classes existed without an instructor."

[moonshine]

What fully funded program (psychology maybe???) did App have rejected by the BOG not to long ago? Funny how App proposes to add a real educational program only to be denied while the Heels have run a shadow curriculum for nearly 2 decades. Might be a good time for Chancellor Everts to try and strike a new deal!

On another note, while a lot of other programs have suspended players due to academics or even had their programs hit by the APR, UNC skates by cheating and is only able to muster 3 National Titles in b-ball and were unable to win the weak ACC once in football. When you cheat, you're suppose to win!!!

[Black Saturday]

Interesting Stuff!!!

http://www.carolinasucks.com/pn/html/index.php

[DoubleA]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarsha ... e-scandal/

This scathing piece from Forbes Magazine gets to the heart of the matter;

[iRather than the Wainstein report being the final word on UNC academic fraud — a result that the school’s beleaguered Chancellor, Carol Folt, would surely welcome — it, instead, should be the starting point for a merciless third-party review. Such an investigation would hopefully not sugar-coat its findings under the Pablum that infects the Wainstein report, which white-washes the “higher levels of the University” on the grounds that they had “insufficient appreciation of the scale of the problem.”

Here’s a possible alternate narrative: UNC did not want to know the scale of the problem because there was too much money at stake from its hugely profitable sports programs. Moreover, a deeper dive might reveal Paterno-esque culpability by the school’s sacrosanct coaching legends. Such a revelation would not only eviscerate UNC’s brand value in the eyes of donors and recruits, but it might also net Penn-State-level sanctions, including the voiding of UNC’s men’s national championships from 1993, 2005 and 2009.
][/i]

[appbio91]

I think most coaches really do not know the specifics of courses their athletes take. They have an academic department with tutors and advisers who handle those things. Are they aware that some of the courses are independent/individual study courses, yes they are for the most part (especially those sports that involve a lot of travel). I think the big elephant in the room that limited over site is the department involved. The AFAM was designed with minority students in mind (recruitment and social relevance), therefore many were afraid to complain when it became obvious that things were not as they should be.
No, I am not a closet tar heel fan, I have always been open about my ties to the UNC Women's Basketball so don't start ripping.

Most people would be afraid to agree with you also. But you might be on to something.

[asu66]

Why do I think Tom Ross and Carol Folt will soon be ordering truckload after truckload of whitewash in 55 gallon drums?

DeCock: UNC experience raises old questions about compatibility of college athletics, academics


Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/1 ... rylink=cpy

[WVAPPeer]

Pat Kennedy - former FSU head coach ---
"Pat Kennedy said "Gary Williams will tell you this, most of the coaches in the ACC felt that Carolina was a fraud in that they walked around like they were Stanford or Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but they weren't, they were not even Duke. They took the most exceptions the last few years of Dean Smith's career they took the most exceptions of any school in the ACC. Meaning kids that would not normally get accepted into the university, that were accepted to the university to play sports. I remember one year at Carolina they had five exceptions starting on their men's basketball team. So they were taking guys with very low level qualifications and then they would keep them eligible. By putting them in these courses. So if a guy was close to not being eligible and his GPA was a 1.8 he would then take a couple of these courses and his GPA would be up to 2.4 and then everybody took a deep breath and they did it again"

"And the thing about the coaches not knowing about it in football it's possible because the coaches at different positions would know about it, but it may not get to the head coach. But in basketball the head coach would know about it because he would have to approve dropping classes and getting into another class to stay eligible for graduation."

"Coaches and athletic directors, you go to NCAA meetings and there is a lot of squabbling and coaches and ADs start pointing fingers. When I first got to the ACC I had a problem with a few coaches and a few of the other guys said 'well do you really want to be the guy to turn Dean Smith in?' and you know as a young coach I said 'I guess not'."

[BeauFoster]

Got a link to that WV? I'd
love to read it

[appbio91]

Pat Kennedy - former FSU head coach ---
"Pat Kennedy said "Gary Williams will tell you this, most of the coaches in the ACC felt that Carolina was a fraud in that they walked around like they were Stanford or Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but they weren't, they were not even Duke. They took the most exceptions the last few years of Dean Smith's career they took the most exceptions of any school in the ACC. Meaning kids that would not normally get accepted into the university, that were accepted to the university to play sports. I remember one year at Carolina they had five exceptions starting on their men's basketball team. So they were taking guys with very low level qualifications and then they would keep them eligible. By putting them in these courses. So if a guy was close to not being eligible and his GPA was a 1.8 he would then take a couple of these courses and his GPA would be up to 2.4 and then everybody took a deep breath and they did it again"

"And the thing about the coaches not knowing about it in football it's possible because the coaches at different positions would know about it, but it may not get to the head coach. But in basketball the head coach would know about it because he would have to approve dropping classes and getting into another class to stay eligible for graduation."

"Coaches and athletic directors, you go to NCAA meetings and there is a lot of squabbling and coaches and ADs start pointing fingers. When I first got to the ACC I had a problem with a few coaches and a few of the other guys said 'well do you really want to be the guy to turn Dean Smith in?' and you know as a young coach I said 'I guess not'."

I pray winning never becomes so important to App.

[WVAPPeer]

Got a link to that WV? I'd
love to read it

no - it was from a radio interview in the DC area and the link wouldn't connect - if it shows up later I will post it ---

[NewApp]

Pat Kennedy - former FSU head coach ---
"Pat Kennedy said "Gary Williams will tell you this, most of the coaches in the ACC felt that Carolina was a fraud in that they walked around like they were Stanford or Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but they weren't, they were not even Duke. They took the most exceptions the last few years of Dean Smith's career they took the most exceptions of any school in the ACC. Meaning kids that would not normally get accepted into the university, that were accepted to the university to play sports. I remember one year at Carolina they had five exceptions starting on their men's basketball team. So they were taking guys with very low level qualifications and then they would keep them eligible. By putting them in these courses. So if a guy was close to not being eligible and his GPA was a 1.8 he would then take a couple of these courses and his GPA would be up to 2.4 and then everybody took a deep breath and they did it again"

"And the thing about the coaches not knowing about it in football it's possible because the coaches at different positions would know about it, but it may not get to the head coach. But in basketball the head coach would know about it because he would have to approve dropping classes and getting into another class to stay eligible for graduation."

"Coaches and athletic directors, you go to NCAA meetings and there is a lot of squabbling and coaches and ADs start pointing fingers. When I first got to the ACC I had a problem with a few coaches and a few of the other guys said 'well do you really want to be the guy to turn Dean Smith in?' and you know as a young coach I said 'I guess not'."

Dean Smith? This is blasphemy.

[WVAPPeer]

yep - this could get really ugly ---

[AppfaninCAALand]

If the Holes get the death penalty, it's too bad old Dean won't have the capacity to know what was happening.

[AppDawg]

Some very interesting reading here. A data dump from the recent investigation of e-mails - 900 pages, supposedly this is just a portion of all that has been released as exhibits to the Wainstein report. Helps connect the dots and tells the rest of the story not included in the glossy report issued earlier this week. The devil is in the details and after a quick flip through the first 200 pages, it is amazing at just how orchestrated and deep this thing goes. On the surface it appears it wasnt just contained to the AFAM department but other majors with independent studies as well such as Philosphy and a Feminism class.

There is documentation in here where advisors opening tell professors or admin assistants certain players need an A or B to stay eligible.

Instances where players submited a single paper and got credit for 2 classes.

There is an e-mail where they openly admit they don't like having classes with just athletes because that is too much of a red flag, So before opening a class for registration they have to identify some non-athletes to fill some seats.

I find interesting it was around 2006/2007 when 'Ol Roy "raised concerns". Coincidentally, that was when the Auburn scandal hit the NY Times. The e-mails within clearly document them scrambling the cover their tracts.

I seriously couldn't have thought this stuff up in my wildest dreams. Simply unreal the amout and level of corruption.

http://3qh929iorux3fdpl532k03kg.wpengin ... EMENTS.pdf

[Black Saturday]

Pat Kennedy - former FSU head coach ---
"Pat Kennedy said "Gary Williams will tell you this, most of the coaches in the ACC felt that Carolina was a fraud in that they walked around like they were Stanford or Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but they weren't, they were not even Duke. They took the most exceptions the last few years of Dean Smith's career they took the most exceptions of any school in the ACC. Meaning kids that would not normally get accepted into the university, that were accepted to the university to play sports. I remember one year at Carolina they had five exceptions starting on their men's basketball team. So they were taking guys with very low level qualifications and then they would keep them eligible. By putting them in these courses. So if a guy was close to not being eligible and his GPA was a 1.8 he would then take a couple of these courses and his GPA would be up to 2.4 and then everybody took a deep breath and they did it again"

"And the thing about the coaches not knowing about it in football it's possible because the coaches at different positions would know about it, but it may not get to the head coach. But in basketball the head coach would know about it because he would have to approve dropping classes and getting into another class to stay eligible for graduation."

"Coaches and athletic directors, you go to NCAA meetings and there is a lot of squabbling and coaches and ADs start pointing fingers. When I first got to the ACC I had a problem with a few coaches and a few of the other guys said 'well do you really want to be the guy to turn Dean Smith in?' and you know as a young coach I said 'I guess not'."

I'd like to see an undoctored statistic about the percentage of admittance "exceptions" for athletes at UNC. I'd be willing to bet that more than 75% do not make the same SAT or GPA as that of normally admitted students. Heck that varies within the normally accepted population too.Of the 16 UNC schools UNC is the most difficult to gain admittance.

[DoubleA]

I'd like to see an undoctored statistic about the percentage of admittance "exceptions" for athletes at UNC. I'd be willing to bet that more than 75% do not make the same SAT or GPA as that of normally admitted students. Heck that varies within the normally accepted population too.Of the 16 UNC schools UNC is the most difficult to gain admittance.

It depends on how you define "exception". Committee cases or those that simply fall below admission norms, below the average admission profile. UNC has basically shut down admittance of committee case athletes, as well they should. Committee cases tend to be so low, off the chart, they have a snowball's chance of making it in the classroom at UNC. Given an average SAT score of about 1300 and about 96% had a high school GPA of 3.75 or higher, your assertion seems reasonable that over 75% of athletes were below average for UNC.

Universities, ASU included, should set minimum admission standards, athlete or not, that may below the student body average profile, but should be at least somewhat representative of the overall student population. In fact, one could argue that given time and energy demands of college sports, athletes should possess academic qualifications equal to, or exceeding that of the general student population. If we indeed expect athletes to truly compete in the classroom, then they need to bring a base level skill set in terms of academic preparation. While it is unreasonable to expect a rec level basketball player to find success playing in the ACC, likewise, it is unreasonable to expect a kid in the bottom third of his high school class to thrive in the classroom at an elite research university. Minimums should vary by school, be set by the universities as appropriate, according to the general profile of the student population. Roughly speaking, the average SAT score at UNC is about 1300, approximately 80% of applicants graduate in the top 10% of their high school class, and 98% had a high school GPA over 3.5. So perhaps set minimum requirements that include an SAT score in the range of 1100-1150 (their bottom quartile is 1200), a minimum GPA in the range of 3.25-3.5 and at least require athletes to have finished in the top third of their class. Of course there's no way UNC would ever go along with this, as standards like these would eliminate the great majority of FB and men's BB blue chip athletes.

[DoubleA]

[bSome very interesting reading here.][/b]

Supporting documents to The Wainstein report included a number of emails and letters sent by Waintein and his legal staff to former employees who are now at other universities, including Everett Withers at JMU and Cynthia Reynolds at Cornell. Wainstein and his staff really pushed the envelope and are an aggressive bunch! In the cases of Withers and Reynolds, both indicated they did not have time to meet due to current job duties, or in the case of Ms. Reynolds, were simply not interested in discussing. In Withers case, he was previously interviewed during the Martin inquiry and is now busy as the head coach at JMU. So what did Wainstein do? He followed up with letters to their employers at JMU and Cornell. In both cases, this resulted in terse letters from legal counsel, letters that rightly called out Wainstein for harassing tactics. Unbelievable!

[StumpyCulbreath]

Sisemi kwamba wao ni bado cheating, lakini wao ni wito michezo yao katika swahili.

[WVAPPeer]

From the N&O ---
"This is where the report becomes troublesome. The public is asked to believe that this abuse occurred without the knowledge of coaches who are or were the keepers of the university’s most precious athletic asset, its men’s basketball program. The proposition is that a succession of head coaches connected by the close bonds of the Carolina family – Dean Smith; his longtime assistant and successor, Bill Guthridge; Matt Doherty, and now Roy Williams – were not aware of sham classes that helped keep basketball players eligible.

Williams says he was “dumbfounded” by the report’s findings. The numbers in the report suggest that such cluelessness among the basketball coaches would have required utter indifference to what their players were doing academically. Under Smith, there were 54 enrollments in AFAM independent study classes; under Guthridge, 17 in three years; under Doherty, 42 in three years, and under Williams, 136 since he took over in 2003. Ten players on the 2005 national championship team were AFAM majors.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/25/ ... rylink=cpy

[appst89]

As much evidence as there is, I won't believe they will receive any punishment from the NCAA until I see it.

I have read that the SACS folks are watching them closely. Academic sanctions could be coming, and I don't think SACS is intimidated by who they are.