Here is the link to the fall sports streaming schedule.

https://appstatesports.com/news/2023/8/ ... edule.aspx

Pay to Play

User avatar
TheMoody1
Posts: 6959
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:45 am
School: Appalachian State
Location: Za' New Land, NC
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 693 times

Pay to Play

Unread post by TheMoody1 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:13 pm

Pay to play?

UL looks to fund full attendance stipend for athletes
Tim Buckley, 9:11 p.m. CST February 22, 2015

When schools from the NCAA's Power Five conferences — the SEC, the ACC, the Big Ten, the Big 12 and the Pac-12 — voted last month to give student-athletes a full cost of attendance stipend on top of grant-in-aid scholarship money already received, they left it up to those from Group of Five conferences to decide for themselves if they'd do the same.

When it all comes out in the wash, what some might deem laundry money — extra cash in the pockets of student-athletes to cover personal travel and incidentals — is no cheap proposition.

In fact, doing so in full could cost the University of Louisiana at Lafayette — a member of the Sun Belt Conference, which is a Group of Five league along with Conference USA, the Mountain West, the MAC and the AAC — more than $1.2 million per year.

Where will the money come from?

For an athletic program like the Ragin' Cajuns', which battles daily to make ends meet with a budget in the $21.5 million-range last fiscal year, there are no easy answers. But the call is theirs as to whether they're willing to try to keep up with the big boys — and others from the Group of Five who intend to do the same.

"It won't require any further voting," Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson said.

Federal guidelines determine stipend amount
"It will be up to each individual university to determine at what level will they add on to the existing grant-in-aid scholarship.

"It's permissible right now," Benson added, "for UL Lafayette to go down that path, and do anything they wish up to the full cost of attendance."

So what will the Cajuns do?

They're going for it.

"We already know we're going to be one of the schools that does give a cost of attendance (stipend)," UL head football coach Mark Hudspeth said.

"You have to be able say we're doing it in order to remain competitive, because that's exactly what it's getting to," UL athletic director Scott Farmer added. "That's exactly what's sitting in living rooms with the potential student-athlete or the moms and dads (during recruiting). … They know it's coming. It's getting to that. So, yeah, in order to remain competitive we're gonna have to."

Just what is full cost of attendance?

Starting Aug. 1, schools can provide to student-athletes financial compensation — as part of full scholarships — that more accurately reflects the actual cost of going to college, as defined by the federal government and calculated by individual financial aid offices.

It applies to all student-athletes regardless of sport, and for those not on full scholarship it would be applied on a prorated basis.

According to the NCAA: "Now, in addition to tuition, fees, books, and room and board, the scholarship will also include expenses such as academic-related supplies, transportation and other similar items. The value of those benefits can differ from campus to campus."

"It also includes some expense money for supplies and laundry, traveling back and forth home — that's the where the difference can come in," Farmer said.

Hudspeth appreciates the decision by UL's administration to pay full cost of attendance, especially since not all Group of Five schools have decided to do so yet.

"It just shows their commitment to what we're doing — commitment to our student-athletes' well-being, to make sure that they have all the resources necessary," he said.

For UL, that will mean an extra $5,888 per student-athlete per year on top of a scholarship valued at roughly $18,000 to in-state students and $26,000-plus for out-of-state students.

With approximately 212 scholarships spread over the school's various athletic programs, it amounts to $1,248,256.

"That's a lot of money," Farmer said.

Which, again, prompts the question:

How will UL — which also happens to be in the silent phase of fundraising efforts to support an athletic facilities master plan capital campaign, and part of a state system searching high and low for ways to cut costs — come up with the cash?

Farmer has been busy lately discussing that very question with his coaches.

"Either we're gonna raise an extra $1.2 million," he said, "or we're gonna deduct expenses (by) $1.2 million.

"I don't know what it's gonna turn out," Farmer added. "I'm just saying there are huge options out there."

Trimming the number of students who attend summer school, Farmer suggested, is one.

Reducing staff, he added, is another.

"There are different options," he said, "and right now I don't like any of them, to be honest with you. But, it's a budget — and you've got to balance it."

Not paying full cost of attendance simply is not one of those options for UL.

"No," Farmer said. "We're not gonna do that — because we want to remain competitive. … We definitely are gonna remain competitive with whatever decision we make."

UL's reasoning amounts to this:

How could it possibly win a recruiting battle — against another from the Sun Belt, for instance; another from another Group of Conference, like Louisiana Tech of Conference; and even ones from Power Five conferences, which UL's football program seems to be going head-to-head with more and more lately — if the programs it is fighting are willing to offer full cost of attendance, but it is not?

"No question," said Hudspeth, whose team has had four straight 9-4 seasons, won four straight New Orleans Bowls and had four straight recruiting classes ranked No. 1 in the Sun Belt by Scout.com.

"If we're gonna continue growing as a program, and growing as an institution, and remain competitive, and take another step, we have to do it. That would be a step back if we didn't."

Some student-athletes, obviously, need cost of attendance money more than others.

Not all are even fully aware that a plan is in place for them to receive it, but everyone — including Cajun baseball players Gunner Leger and Joe Robbins — is bound to be happy to get it.

"It will be put to good use," Leger said.

"It's always nice to get something to put in your pocket after a road trip or something," Robbins added. "But we're not focused on the money that we get in our pockets. We're focused on coming out here and playing baseball and winning games."


A NEW EXPENSE

A look at how UL's decision to pay the NCAA-approved full cost of attendance stipend to student-athletes on top of usual grant-in-aid scholarships will impact the Ragin' Cajuns financially:

Annual cost per student-athlete: $5,888

Approximate number of full scholarships, all sports: 212

Extra annual expense to budget: $1,248,256

UL's 2013-14 fiscal year athletic expenses: $21,542,643

User avatar
WVAPPeer
Posts: 12260
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:14 am
School: Other
Location: Born: Almost Heaven
Has thanked: 4607 times
Been thanked: 2518 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by WVAPPeer » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:31 pm

so if I'm reading this correctly, any SBC school can choose to go this route and it doesn't require conference approval? ---
"Montani Semper Liberi"

The Dude Abides!!!

Saint3333
Posts: 13032
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 8:42 am
Has thanked: 3024 times
Been thanked: 4678 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by Saint3333 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:48 pm

The beginning of the end of college athletics as we know it has begun.

If this gets out of hand I'll have to allocate more money to the business school.

For the record I'm fine with a marginal amount of spending money, but to leave the amount up to the university and allow it to differ by sport that is where I draw the line. Very unfortunate.

bcoach
Posts: 4306
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:49 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 1254 times
Been thanked: 1376 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by bcoach » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:01 pm

As Saint said this is the beginning of the end. If it comes to that maybe the business school is a better investment for the university.

User avatar
appgrouch
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:36 pm
School: Appalachian State
Location: In my seat, waiting for people to shut up and play.
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by appgrouch » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:03 pm

At the ULL level it would be around 1.5 mil for App
That's what I do. I gripe and I know things.

User avatar
8993
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:18 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 327 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by 8993 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:06 pm

Here's how this looks to me now:

NFL - Division IA
P5 - Division IAA
G5 - Division IAAA
FCS and lower - off the charts

User avatar
T-Dog
Posts: 6561
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:35 pm
Location: Boone, NC
Has thanked: 204 times
Been thanked: 2564 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by T-Dog » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:06 pm

Letting each school decided = Not everyone agrees on it

User avatar
Gonzo
Posts: 4894
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:11 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 564 times
Been thanked: 1975 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by Gonzo » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:40 pm

Surely we'll eventually establish a standard -- at least within our conference...

This format yields itself to an in-conference bidding war for players. Are we looking at the new MLB where the richest teams are the best teams?

How much spending money do you even need in college? I had a modest work study in undergrad. It afforded me more than enough. If you spend more than $20 at a 1-2-3 night, you're not walking out of that bar.

User avatar
yosef13
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:13 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 302 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by yosef13 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:42 pm

Number of living alumni 114,142 x $13.14 = $1,500,000 annually.

Simple.

User avatar
firemoose
Posts: 8026
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:20 am
School: Appalachian State
Location: Boone, NC
Has thanked: 865 times
Been thanked: 3648 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by firemoose » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:45 pm

Not a surprise at all. This has been coming on for a while. Just a matter of what final form it takes. Talks have been going on behind closed doors ever since this was thrown into the mix at the P5 level. And expect this to be one of the first things our new AD will have to tackle. Aside from cutting sports (and also keeping the NCAA happy with Title IX), which, unless someone cuts a major sport and that's not going to happen too often, doesn't save very much anyway, the easiest way to save money in the budget (other than not giving G5 coaches huge salaries, some of which are nuts considering that the only step up for them is to the P5 level and those jobs are finite) is to cut travel expenses. Word will leak out soon enough that conferences are not only having internal discussions but also between the other G5 conferences. Those schools that are willing to try and keep up as much as possible with the Joneses (aka G5) will be looking at ways to cut expenses. Word floating around is that a combination of all of these is being looked at. When the next moves come these will be the reasons given. It's been said before but hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Last edited by firemoose on Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EastHallApp
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:34 pm
School: Appalachian State
Location: Raleigh
Has thanked: 3214 times
Been thanked: 2805 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by EastHallApp » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:48 pm

Honestly, I kind of think the "beginning of the end" rhetoric is a little hyperbolic. There's more and more recognition that the "amateurism" model is a sham, and this is a small step to at least offer a little more compensation for the people who are generating billions in revenue.

Anyway, regardless of how you feel about it, I think the ULL quotes are on point - this is going to become the standard cost of operating if you want to be competitive.

Also, in case there was any doubt of the importance of fundraising prowess for App's next AD, this should underscore that point.

Saint3333
Posts: 13032
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 8:42 am
Has thanked: 3024 times
Been thanked: 4678 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by Saint3333 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:07 pm

TV has ruined college athletics.

We cannot compete long-term is a "market" environment.

Next they will raise the scholarship limit north of 85.

Many G5 programs will then fall back into "1-AA".

This isn't hyperbole, this is reality.

User avatar
App91
Posts: 3786
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:28 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 633 times
Been thanked: 451 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by App91 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:19 pm

Saint3333 wrote:TV has ruined college athletics.

We cannot compete long-term is a "market" environment.

Next they will raise the scholarship limit north of 85.

Many G5 programs will then fall back into "1-AA".

This isn't hyperbole, this is reality.
As I recall, wasn't this the idea for moving up anyway. We knew this was coming down the pike, that the P5 will have their own deal, the G5 who wish and some upper echelon FCS will have a division then FCS, II and III divided into some scholly and non scholly. Hasn't been even in a long time.

User avatar
firemoose
Posts: 8026
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:20 am
School: Appalachian State
Location: Boone, NC
Has thanked: 865 times
Been thanked: 3648 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by firemoose » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:21 pm

Gonzo wrote:Surely we'll eventually establish a standard -- at least within our conference...

This format yields itself to an in-conference bidding war for players. Are we looking at the new MLB where the richest teams are the best teams?
I think the one thing that keeps this from going full on MLB in the P5's are the lower level P5 teams in each conference. There is already a gap between the top tier and lower tier inside each P5 conference. And those schools, who do have a vote at the table in all this, will not want to see that gap widen any further than it already is. If they want to have any chance at all against the top teams in their respective conferences then those lower level teams will fight like hell to cap it at a certain amount to keep it from getting out of control. We can only hope they succeed or it could get ugly for everyone in D-1.

User avatar
8993
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:18 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 327 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by 8993 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:26 pm

App could offer pay-to-play... if it weren't for the fact that we are traveling to the Gulf Coast and Texas on a regular basis, with trips to Idaho and New Mexico still occurring in the fall.

I am so grateful for the Sun Belt. They chose us after CUSA turned the other cheek for UNC-Charlotte, but realistically, the Sun Belt is not always going to work for us. To remain competitive, we will have to start handing out stipends to our student-athletes, and with higher-than-ever travel expenses, something will have to give.

What will give? Will it be us losing recruits to the likes of Georgia Southern and ULL? Will it be us having to cut sports to not go into drastic debt? Will it be us having to allocate our funds elsewhere? There are a lot of unknowns here, and this "pay-to-play" opens up another can of worms.

If the leadership within the G5 conferences is smart, they will start to advocate for regional footprints. Not only will this save each and every school money in travel time, but it will put more money back into the pockets of the athletic departments that wish to hand out these stipends. Arkansas State? Georgia State? ULM? They're in good shape, as they are in the middle of whatever footprint they are in (i.e. CUSA or the Sun Belt), but App is not in the same scenario. We are an outlier right now, and it will show in the money that we are spending.

What's the solution? I hope our next AD has something up his/her sleeves.

User avatar
firemoose
Posts: 8026
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:20 am
School: Appalachian State
Location: Boone, NC
Has thanked: 865 times
Been thanked: 3648 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by firemoose » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:28 pm

App91 wrote:
Saint3333 wrote:TV has ruined college athletics.

We cannot compete long-term is a "market" environment.

Next they will raise the scholarship limit north of 85.

Many G5 programs will then fall back into "1-AA".

This isn't hyperbole, this is reality.
As I recall, wasn't this the idea for moving up anyway. We knew this was coming down the pike, that the P5 will have their own deal, the G5 who wish and some upper echelon FCS will have a division then FCS, II and III divided into some scholly and non scholly. Hasn't been even in a long time.
Pretty much. The choice was to stay in the current FCS and see it become the new D-II with 50 or ships or move up knowing that when the Power conferences got their way we would again be in the true second tier, except with schools that are a closer match to us.

There are still many changes to come until all this settles out. But you had to be on the dance floor or risk getting locked out of the dance hall completely.

User avatar
APPARJ
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:19 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 293 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by APPARJ » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:00 pm

This is so stupid.

This is a great example of messing something up that needed no fixing.

Being a football player in college is extremely hard... which is why their tuition is paid for.

So sad that it has come to this.
Image ImageImage
ImageImage

User avatar
Gonzo
Posts: 4894
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:11 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 564 times
Been thanked: 1975 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by Gonzo » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:08 pm

During my last semester of college at Appalachian I had a interpersonal communications class where we had team debates every week or so. I actually argued against paid play for NCAA football players. Who argued for you asked? Steven Miller after his first season in Black and Gold.

appbanker
Posts: 434
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:26 am
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 153 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by appbanker » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:16 pm

With the idea of going to regional G5 conferences requiring a lot of cooperation between the current conferences, do you think we will ever see a scenario where the G5 work together to become the 6th member of the P5? We kind of have that now with the current playoff/bowl system with the top G5 getting an opportunity at a major bowl. With some kind of combined G5, could we negotiate a better TV contract across the board? Would it give us more bargaining power with the P5 to possibly get more teams into the bigger bowl games? Maybe a G5 championship game to get into a major bowl?

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out and what becomes of the current DI conferences.

User avatar
asu66
Posts: 26902
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 1:21 pm
School: Appalachian State
Has thanked: 1963 times
Been thanked: 2016 times

Re: Pay to Play

Unread post by asu66 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:05 pm

What are the chances that Chancellor Everts is being updated on this mess with factual and unbiased info? What are the chances that she understands/or will shortly come to understand the short term and long term implications this has for her/our university. What are the chances that she will think longer and harder about her choice for our new AD?

This just emphasizes even more roachgone's statement that whomever is chosen, "we'd better get this AD decision right."
If it happens to the Apps, it happens to me!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Other Schools' Athletics”