Should the Sun Belt look North?

[SayYesToTheRock]

Ignoring the AAC, which at this stage is a pipe dream...

My ideal conference looks something like this:

[EastHallApp]

Ignoring the AAC, which at this stage is a pipe dream...

My ideal conference looks something like this:

I like it. Personally I’d take either UAB or Troy and leave JMU in FCS, but otherwise this is the ideal.

[ah59396]

Yep, all of this is connected. NIU is shrinking because the state is shrinking. App and other NC universities are growing because NC is growing.

NC was the 9th largest state in the last census . If you combine NC and SC we are the 5th largest in the country. NC was 4th in overall increase in population over the past decade, only behind Texas, Florida, and California, with no slow down in slight.

NC will likely be the 5th or 6th most populated state in 10 years. Insane. Most of our universities will struggle to keep up with the demand, and will ultimately become more competitive as a result.

I imagine I will see App at 25k to 30k in my lifetime.

I’m trying to imagine where we put 10k more students!

I never thought I’d see the day we have 20k. We have an exceptionally forward thinking administration. I love this school.

[VNova]

Yep, all of this is connected. NIU is shrinking because the state is shrinking. App and other NC universities are growing because NC is growing.

NC was the 9th largest state in the last census . If you combine NC and SC we are the 5th largest in the country. NC was 4th in overall increase in population over the past decade, only behind Texas, Florida, and California, with no slow down in slight.

NC will likely be the 5th or 6th most populated state in 10 years. Insane. Most of our universities will struggle to keep up with the demand, and will ultimately become more competitive as a result.

I imagine I will see App at 25k to 30k in my lifetime.

I’m trying to imagine where we put 10k more students!

I never thought I’d see the day we have 20k. We have an exceptionally forward thinking administration. I love this school.

Now if we can only get the state dollars per student increase we so desperately need.

[ah59396]

Yep, all of this is connected. NIU is shrinking because the state is shrinking. App and other NC universities are growing because NC is growing.

NC was the 9th largest state in the last census . If you combine NC and SC we are the 5th largest in the country. NC was 4th in overall increase in population over the past decade, only behind Texas, Florida, and California, with no slow down in slight.

NC will likely be the 5th or 6th most populated state in 10 years. Insane. Most of our universities will struggle to keep up with the demand, and will ultimately become more competitive as a result.

I imagine I will see App at 25k to 30k in my lifetime.

I’m trying to imagine where we put 10k more students!

I never thought I’d see the day we have 20k. We have an exceptionally forward thinking administration. I love this school.

Now if we can only get the state dollars per student increase we so desperately need.

We’d probably have to bend the knee and rename ourselves UNC-Boone for that to happen.

[AppInDC]

MAC schools will step down to FCS before the Sunbelt voluntarily absorbs 4 of their programs.

Restructuring as an FCS conference probably isn't a bad idea for them. Get their games back on Saturdays, don't have to suckle at the ESPN teat anymore, fans actually get excited again, alumni return to campus, enrollment increases.

I don't think football has much to do with their enrollment issues. NIU in-state tuition, cheapest on campus housing/meal plan, and fees amounts to $102,000 for four years. That's not including books, cost of travel, etc. Eastern Michigan costs $99,250 over 4 years with everything. Kent State is about $108,000 with everything.

For comparison, App State is about $64,000 for four years now.

If you can't afford to go to the school, football isn't going to help much. With that said, a drop to FCS could help drive down costs of attendance and at least stabilize enrollment.

I didn't say bad football = drop in attendance. I said good football = increase in attendance. It's exactly what took App State from 12,000 students in 2006 to almost 20,000 in 2020.

I'm sure the increasing visibility of the football program has drawn some students but I'd be cautious about chalking all of App's enrollment gains to sports. Western Carolina has an awful football program and they have increased from 8-9k to close to 12k in the same time period.

I suspect App's enrollment gains are more closely related to more people going to college plus being located in a fast growing state.

I believe that the state has been running a tuition reduction program at Western to induce students to attend. This is anecdotal but several really strong students from the school where my wife teaches ended up attending Western because it's super cheap to go there now.
Your assertion may be correct but I'd be curious to see how the number of applications compare when looking pre-first national championship (or at least pre-Michigan) to after. My perception is that it's much more competitive now as you have more students applying for the limited open slots. An App professor told me that the state has basically mandated that App reach 20,000 students, which we're close to now.
So, the football success may not be the sole, or main driver, to the increase in the total student population (ie the state mandate) but I believe the quality of students that are now attending has strengthened significantly because of the higher number of applicants (football notoriety) and many strong students seem to be increasingly listing App as their first choice. Most of the kids at my wife's school identified App as having a beautiful campus and great football...

Perhaps true and I'd have to do more research. But anecdotally I know many people ranging from Ivy Leaguers to people who went to non-flagship state schools who say they don't think they could get into the same school today. I'd like to see more data before declaring how sizable an impact the football program is to App's growth.

[hotrod2001]

Nah, The MAC is like its own little world and too far north.

If the Sun Belt were to expand, it'd probably bring up another FCS program or two like JMU, EKU and A&T. That or push UT Arlington to bring their program back, something they've toyed with for a few years now.

That’s fair.

Do you think the MAC will survive as an FBS football conference?

Probably. They're the only lower-tier FBS conference in that region of the country. Not everyone can be in the B1G. Unless that entire region goes the way of Detroit, I'd think they'd be fine. Trends change, programs change.

[Appstate88]

Ignoring the AAC, which at this stage is a pipe dream...

My ideal conference looks something like this:

I like it. Personally I’d take either UAB or Troy and leave JMU in FCS, but otherwise this is the ideal.

I like it.... What would the Divisions look like? Who would you put in each division?

[EastHallApp]

I like it.... What would the Divisions look like? Who would you put in each division?

If we're talking the version with an Alabama team (let's say Troy for this exercise), they divide pretty neatly:

North
Marshall
WKU
ODU
MTSU
App
Charlotte

South
Coastal
GS
GSU
Troy
FAU
FIU

Make App and GS primary partners so they play annually.

If you go with the JMU version in the map, it gets slightly trickier, but maybe:

North
Marshall
WKU
JMU
ODU
MTSU
App


South
Charlotte
Coastal
GS
GSU
FAU
FIU

App/UNCC wouldn't play every year because App already has a cross-divisional rival in GS. You could do it a couple other ways by moving around some combination of MTSU, Charlotte, App and/or Ga. State.

[Appstate88]

Good breakdown.What if we divided the divisions so only one from each state can be in each division?

[Appstate88]

Kick Ass Division
App
WKU
Marshall
Coastal
JMU
GS
FAU

Whimpy Division
EKU
ODU
UNC Concord
MTSU
Ga St
MTSU or Troy
FIU

[EastHallApp]

Good breakdown.What if we divided the divisions so only one from each state can be in each division?

You could do it non-geographically (as the ACC does), but that would kind of defeat the purpose of creating this league I think.

[SayYesToTheRock]

I like it. Personally I’d take either UAB or Troy and leave JMU in FCS, but otherwise this is the ideal.

I only wonder if the Alabama schools (Troy/UAB/S.Alabama) would prefer to stay with each other in a Gulf Coast centric conference, which is why JMU is there.



If Troy did want to stay with the East Coast schools, that would be great though.

[Saint3333]

Drop the FXU’s

Marshall, WKU, MTSU, ODU, App

UNCC, GS, GA St, CCU, Troy

Have two permanent partners. App gets GS and UNCC.

[APPdiesel]

Ignoring the AAC, which at this stage is a pipe dream...

My ideal conference looks something like this:

I like it. Personally I’d take either UAB or Troy and leave JMU in FCS, but otherwise this is the ideal.

I like it.... What would the Divisions look like? Who would you put in each division?

North/South divisions. Send Charlotte north and App South

[AppDawg]

I don't get the desire to add south florida schools. I thought the mantra was to reduce the mileage between schools. The F_U's are nearly equidistant with LaLa & Monroe. Give me the Bama schools, Troy/UAB - even South Bama before the F_U's.

[AppStFan1]

I don't get the desire to add south florida schools. I thought the mantra was to reduce the mileage between schools. The F_U's are nearly equidistant with LaLa & Monroe. Give me the Bama schools, Troy/UAB - even South Bama before the F_U's.

I was about to say I love what was proposed except I don't want the FL schools just for travel. Maybe Marshall, JMU, ODU, App State, East Carolina, Charlotte, MTSU, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, Western Kentucky, and Troy.

It could divide into a North and South Division.

North
Marshall, JMU, ODU, App State, ECU, WKU

South
Charlotte, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, MTSU, CCU, and Troy.

We would have Ga Southern as our locked in south opponent. This way Marshall, ECU, and Ga Southern would always be on our schedule. We would play Charlotte every 2 years.

[SayYesToTheRock]

I don't get the desire to add south florida schools. I thought the mantra was to reduce the mileage between schools. The F_U's are nearly equidistant with LaLa & Monroe. Give me the Bama schools, Troy/UAB - even South Bama before the F_U's.

I was about to say I love what was proposed except I don't want the FL schools just for travel.

Travel to and from the Florida Adjective Universities isn't ideal. But the closest G5s (outside the AAC) to them are Georgia Southern, Georgia State, and Troy. If the Sun Belt and C-USA split along regional lines, the F_Us would almost certainly be in the newly-formed eastern conference with us. It makes the most sense.

The upside is, with the F_Ss in an opposite division from App, trips to Miami and Boca would be infrequent. Plus it would give App increased access to Florida for recruiting.

[AppStFan1]

I don't get the desire to add south florida schools. I thought the mantra was to reduce the mileage between schools. The F_U's are nearly equidistant with LaLa & Monroe. Give me the Bama schools, Troy/UAB - even South Bama before the F_U's.

Football isn’t the issue. We ideally need a league where we eliminate trips that far for secondary sports and basketball. Our other sports will have to go every year.

I was about to say I love what was proposed except I don't want the FL schools just for travel.

Travel to and from the Florida Adjective Universities isn't ideal. But the closest G5s (outside the AAC) to them are Georgia Southern, Georgia State, and Troy. If the Sun Belt and C-USA split along regional lines, the F_Us would almost certainly be in the newly-formed eastern conference with us. It makes the most sense.

The upside is, with the F_Ss in an opposite division from App, trips to Miami and Boca would be infrequent. Plus it would give App increased access to Florida for recruiting.

[JMappfan5]

Hope we never let JMU in our Conference!!!