Discussion with App alums

[huskie3]

I would divide alums into 4 groups. 1/4 who feel strongly positive about the move up; 1/4 who feel strongly negative; 1/4 who want what is best for ASU; and 1/4 who do not care. Of the last 1/4 I would also guess many have not set foot back on Appalachian campus since they left.

[JTApps1]

Out of the 15 or so people I've spoken with about the move there has only been one that was totally against it. There were a couple who were unsure at first, but excited after I was able to explain to them reasons for moving. The rest were all very positive about the move. A good number of people from other schools have approached me and all said this was overdue for App. Several coworkers that are App alums who never talk about sports came to me to say how excited they are.

[appst89]

Birds of a feather flock together, people. No surprise that all your buddies share your point of view.

I will simplify it even more and go as far to say is that there is a strong correlation between knowledge of the situation and approval of the move. You have the most knowledgable people of all, Cobb and Peacock, as your strongest supporters. On the other side of the line graphe, you've got comment posters on Appfan.com. They don't know their own arse from a hole in the ground and their opinion of our institutional progress is very negative.

Don't know if you were replying to me or not, but these are not my buddies I am talking about. My group of friends is grouped between accepting and supportive. Most of the folks I have talked to that are not my friends come around to at least accepting the move after they hear the reasons for it.

[asutrnr81]

In my humble opinion a similar group of people who do not want this move would be similar to a group who would not want a med school at ASU since there are already "3-4" in the state.

People are usually against things they do not understand.

[Kgfish]

i would love to know the correlation between those who aren't in favor of the move and dollars donated and games attended.

My money is on the figure being at least 75% don't give a penny or buy season tickets. Think if they make it to one game a year they are big supporters. IMO, they have little or no say in the matter. If you aren't investing in the program keep your trap shut.

So we're back to, "the ones who give a lot should have contol over he gets hired and who gets fired."

You're right. The person who graduated 20 years ago, has never given a dime to Yosef, comes to Homecoming every 4-5 years and bought a cap during the national championship run DOES NOT have just as much say so as those who are regular Yosef contributors, buys season tickets, attends away games and wears App apparel every where they go. If you can't comprehend that I don't know what to say.

[Kgfish]

There's obviously no empirical evidence to draw from, but I think Rob is probably right. My experience thus far has been most people are moderately to extremely unfavorable to this move until I explain the reasons for it.

That is the key. Those I have spoken to against it continue to spout rhetoric from Laney's era. Most are completely uninformed why the move is being made how it can be beneficial to ASU. Once they hear the positives, most - not all - have done an about face.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I think another question along this line is how many students support this move.

To be perfectly frank...why should it matter what the current quadrant of students think? They're all going to be gone in 4-5 years! Not that I don't value their contribution, but we all seem to view "students" as this monolithic group...but it literally turns over every 5 years. By the time we are fully FBS, 3 of the 4 classes (Seniors aside) will have no experience with FCS, SoCon, Playoffs, etc. They will know only Sun Belt & FBS football.

They (students) are the ones paying student fees that they may/may not see any value in having free admission. That is why it should matter. I know a lot of students attend the games, but they are forced to pay the fees. And it has become an event now, and I like that myself, even if some students don't stay the entire game. Overall it is a positive the number of students that do come out to the games. However, I think a real measure of student support would be" pay the fee and get in games free, or don't pay the fee and pay to get in the game." I wonder how many would balk at the fees and the games. Hopefully not many, but I am sure there are some (maybe many) students that don't care one bit for athletics and would just as soon have the fees back for movies, parties, or whatever, maybe food and rent even.

I am pro-SB overall. I actually finally gave to the Yosef Club this year, and at some level it may have been due to the impending move. I gave very little, but more than zero. I still have mixed feelings about it. That little donation could have gone to a deserving student truly in need of financial aid and very deserving based on academics. Instead I gave some to Yosef and a smaller amount to the academic side this year. I only have so much to give. I try and support ASU in a variety of ways. I gave some to the academic side, and in the past I have given to the athletic side, but I asked for something in return in the past, a ticket to the event, or here is some money, now give me a drink or a bag of popcorn. Or here is $70, now stream some games on GoASU. In the reality of things I know the $ some give will buy some influence even if not on an official level. I also know my budget and realize I can't get to every game. Even if I could afford season tickets, I can't afford the gas and food, etc getting there as much as I would like. Should someone in my position be completely ignored as if not a stakeholder? I would hope not, not completely ignored.

[appbio91]

I think another question along this line is how many students support this move.

To be perfectly frank...why should it matter what the current quadrant of students think? They're all going to be gone in 4-5 years! Not that I don't value their contribution, but we all seem to view "students" as this monolithic group...but it literally turns over every 5 years. By the time we are fully FBS, 3 of the 4 classes (Seniors aside) will have no experience with FCS, SoCon, Playoffs, etc. They will know only Sun Belt & FBS football.

This has to be the most short sighted post in this entire thread.

[Rekdiver]

I think another question along this line is how many students support this move.

To be perfectly frank...why should it matter what the current quadrant of students think? They're all going to be gone in 4-5 years! Not that I don't value their contribution, but we all seem to view "students" as this monolithic group...but it literally turns over every 5 years. By the time we are fully FBS, 3 of the 4 classes (Seniors aside) will have no experience with FCS, SoCon, Playoffs, etc. They will know only Sun Belt & FBS football.

This has to be the most short sighted post in this entire thread.

He has a point. The current students will be worrying about healthcare and taxes in a few years. The class of 2019 won't know anything about The PrivateCon or FCS. They are sophomores in High school now.

[MountainMan]

For the life of me, I can't understand the so-called logic that says students' opinions should largely be ignored. That has to be about the craziest thing I've heard. While it's true they should not the the only decision makers, they are sort of why the school exists! Students : University; get it? And, it is not the same students -- yes, they turn over every 4-5 or 6 years, but they have relatively similar likes and dislikes, face many of the same issues, like or don't like athletics, etc. And, in case you nay-sayers have not noticed, they make up the biggest and loudest section at every home game. And, oh yeah, they and their families foot the bill for a big portion of athletics.
No, I'm not a student. Just an old guy that remembers that college students have pretty decent brains about stuff like this. And, from what I see, the mix of students that support an FBS move or not is probably fairly similar to the general fan base -- and maybe skewed just a bit more in favor of it.
JMO.

[MountainMan]

It all comes back to the Gonzo, three-pronged list of characteristics, at least one of which is displayed by every single anti-progress App fan remaining.

1. Secondary allegiance to another FBS school.
2. General ignorance about conference realignment and the current state of the FCS.
3. Selfish reasons ie. not wanting to pay more for a stadium spot or travel farther.

Hopefully he jumps off the bandwagon. We don't need that kind of secondary support. His breed (the Tar Hole/App fan) is an endangered species now-a-days. Let's hope for a full extinction eventually.

BINGO. This list pretty much nails the real thinking behind most of the anti-move folks.

I am very understanding of folks that line up with No. 2 (and find a good percentage of them become more positive about the move, the more they think about it), and have some sympathy for folks at No. 3 (especially the really long-term old-time fans that may not have the same time frame for seeing success that younger folks do), but for folks at the No. 1 slot, meh, that dog just don't hunt with me.

[AppState89]

i would love to know the correlation between those who aren't in favor of the move and dollars donated and games attended.

I'm in favor of the move now..., but I think we had to move up...I'm still giving the same and will be at all the El Cid game as of now....If I'm not busy that weekend, I might make the trip anyway...

I know you said those who AREN'T, but since I was more at first, thought I would post...

[Kgfish]

We all paid student fees for things we did not agree with and for services or activities we never participated in. That's the way it is. If someone balks at paying the athletic fee fine, tell them to transfer to another school with no athletic programs. If memory serves me well there were over 12,000 wanting the 3,000 or so freshman spots. It won't be a big problem replacing those who do not want to ante up. Don't want to pay the fee, get out of line because the person behind you doesn't have an issue with it. It's simple supply and demand.

[appmaj]

One of my fraternity brothers (who was a starter on the football team in the early '00's) commented when I posted the link on Facebook. He is very much not in favor of the move. His comment surprised me, a) because I don't think I have seen him in 8-10 years, b) he has never commented on anything, and c) with him being a former player I expected he would love the move up in competition.

[Rekdiver]

I can't imagine any athlete not wanting to play at the highest level possible. I guess your friend was upset when we scheduled Michigan. That won't be the kind of young man we will be recruiting anymore.

[hapapp]

I think it unfair to characterize as stupid or naive those who hold a different view on the move up from most of us here. It is too simple to pass them off as people who want to be able to drive up 10 minutes before the game, get their spot in the stadium lot, and slip into their seats without a hassle. Or to suggest they aren't folks who give to Yosef. Or who don't care about ASU's future. While I disagree with them, it doesn't mean their opinion is necessarily irrational. We need to acknowledge that quite a few of our fellow fans and alums are not in favor of the move. I doubt we convince them of the soundness of the decision by denigrating them.

[Saint3333]

My prior post was not an assumption that they aren't Yosef Club members or ticket holders, it was a question to understand if they were, I still haven't received an answer.

Everyone gets a say, it is American, but if they were a casual fan that didn't come to games or involved as a Yosef Club member ($1 or $10,000, doesn't matter) I personally don't give their opinion as much weight. Right or wrong that is how I personally feel. If they weren't an active fan before I'm not sure how they had an impact on ASU athletics.

I don't give my opinion on many things that I haven't shown an interest in or done my research. If I commented on the direction the school of the arts was going people should not value my opinion on those matters because I'm not close to that program.

Students do get a say though as over 50% come to games and do pay athletic fees. No taxation without representation still means something to me. They should have a vested interest in the long-term however and be able to articulate their points, vs. I don't think we should pay any athletic fee, that isn't realistic.

[rbarthle17]

Rob of these dozen friends, how many have season tickets? How many are Yosef Club members?

I don't know for certain about YC membership, but if I had to guess I would be surprised if 3 of them were NOT YC members. I know those 3 try and get up for 2-3 games a year on average.

[appbio91]

We all paid student fees for things we did not agree with and for services or activities we never participated in. That's the way it is. If someone balks at paying the athletic fee fine, tell them to transfer to another school with no athletic programs. If memory serves me well there were over 12,000 wanting the 3,000 or so freshman spots. It won't be a big problem replacing those who do not want to ante up. Don't want to pay the fee, get out of line because the person behind you doesn't have an issue with it. It's simple supply and demand.

Not simple supply and demand. They accepted the best 3000. We want to continue to raise the bar on academics. No where in Appalachian State University's mission or vision statements is football mentioned. Students are the most important assets of any university.

[appbio91]

Mm