Silver Lining to CFP selections for Sun Belt

[EastHallApp]

They picked TV viewers. If it had been Texas instead of TCU/Baylor, OSU would be sitting at home.

I think this is closer to the mark. While I'm not sure it was as overt as this, I think a lot of people, from fans to pundits, are predisposed to think the brand name teams are better than the upstarts. I think if it had been Texas and Oklahoma tied for the Big XII title instead of TCU and Baylor, most likely at least one of them would have made it.

[Rick0714]

In 2011, Houston beat one P5 team (an unranked UCLA) and ran the table going into the CUSA championship game vs. Southern Miss ranked 7th in the country. They lost to Southern Miss and dropped 11 spots to 18th and played in the "Ticket City Bowl".

Great G5 teams and great P5 teams should not compete in the playoffs with each other.

On the other hand, I would LOVE to play schools like Southern Miss, Houston, SMU and Tulane in a G5 playoff system.

Well, I think we're no better than we were as FCS in that scenario. But I have said before, I think the P5 is pushing to be a separate league any way and we've moved up just to maintain "I-AA" status. Not happy about it, but money talks in "amateur" football.

[firemoose]

e2e3wd

[APPARJ]

In a four team playoff, you are correct. If they go to eight, there is absolutely no reason to believe that App, or another Sun Belt team could not crack the top 8.

It will never happen and here are four reasons.

1.) A Sun Belt team has not and never will play the kind of schedule that would be deserving of a top 8 ranking. Has a Sun Belt team every finished the year in the top ten?

2.) The powers that be will do everything they can to make sure only P5 teams make the top 8 (and rightfully so.)

3.) This is a "name" game. TCU doesn't draw as much as OSU so all things being ALMOST equal, OSU is a better pick for a playoff. In baseball, the tie goes to the runner. Here, a tie goes to the school with the most powerful name. I'm not offended by this reality but it's a reality that App State simply does not live within. All of us know this and shouldn't be hurt by it in the least.

4.) It's only a matter of time before this playoff becomes a P5 only party where G5 teams are not eligible no matter what season they had... which is why they should and will split off to form their own post season process in the near future.


One day App State will compete for a title. It just won't be against P5 schools.

I don't disagree too much with what you say. But just for grins, say App beats Clemson and runs the table next year. That would be enough to be the top ranked G5 champion, in my opinion. Under the current setup, that would give us a New Year's Day game, probably the Peach Bowl, and in an 8 team scenario would be good enough to at least get some consideration for the playoff.

I absolutely agree with your 4th point. The P5 is going to do their own thing very soon and there will be another level created yet again.

Realistically, App State beating Clemson and running the table would get us into the top 25 and a sweet Bowl, for sure. That said, TCU was a really great football team and they just got screwed for not having a OSU-type heavyweight name. App State won't push a P5 school out because of a victory over one good ACC team.

I don't know why people want a G5 school at the table in a 8-team playoff scenario. It would be such a joke. Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl on a fluke a couple of years ago and Florida State had their second string in the entire second half.

We just need to wait until the P5 gets what they want, an all P5 league, and we can go about taking care of our business.

I want us to aspire to the highest level we can attain, whatever that may be under the scenario in place at the time. It may be unrealistic, or at least highly improbable, for us to think about a spot at the table, but if that isn't what we're shooting for then we're no better off than we were in FCS.

The main way we're not better off than in the SoCon is the fact that we cannot play for a national championship. The fact that all of our fans can watch every game on ESPN3, experience better competition in the conference and at KBS and recruit better talent is all really cool.

However, I don't think I'm suggesting that we don't aspire to reach the highest level. All App State can do is win every game it plays. I hope we do that. But that doesn't change the reality of the fact that the only teams that will ever be in the CFP will be established P5 teams.

But I'm okay with that because I believe we have an opportunity to win the conference, go to a bowl and continue to lay the foundation of a strong FBS program next year.

[firemoose]

e2e3wd

What the ****. I went in to change a word and this is what I got.

[APPARJ]

In 2011, Houston beat one P5 team (an unranked UCLA) and ran the table going into the CUSA championship game vs. Southern Miss ranked 7th in the country. They lost to Southern Miss and dropped 11 spots to 18th and played in the "Ticket City Bowl".

Great G5 teams and great P5 teams should not compete in the playoffs with each other.

On the other hand, I would LOVE to play schools like Southern Miss, Houston, SMU and Tulane in a G5 playoff system.

Well, I think we're no better than we were as FCS in that scenario. But I have said before, I think the P5 is pushing to be a separate league any way and we've moved up just to maintain "I-AA" status. Not happy about it, but money talks in "amateur" football.

Well, we actually are better. Our players are better, our competition is better and our home games are better. The only thing missing is the "playoff" factor that leads to a national championship.

It's funny to see folks on Twitter and MMB talk about App State making a major bowl and playing with the big boys. App State did not make a move to play with Alabama, LSU and Clemson. They made a move to make sure they weren't left in DII again when the next split happened.

It's a brilliant move. We get better competition and eventually we'll get a landscape that looks similar to what we experienced at our peak in the SoCon.

It'll take time for things to shake out but App State is right where it needs to be.

[firemoose]

In 2011, Houston beat one P5 team (an unranked UCLA) and ran the table going into the CUSA championship game vs. Southern Miss ranked 7th in the country. They lost to Southern Miss and dropped 11 spots to 18th and played in the "Ticket City Bowl".

Great G5 teams and great P5 teams should not compete in the playoffs with each other.

On the other hand, I would LOVE to play schools like Southern Miss, Houston, SMU and Tulane in a G5 playoff system.

Well, I think we're no better than we were as FCS in that scenario. But I have said before, I think the P5 is pushing to be a separate league any way and we've moved up just to maintain "I-AA" status. Not happy about it, but money talks in "amateur" football.

Well, we actually are better. Our players are better, our competition is better and our home games are better. The only thing missing is the "playoff" factor that leads to a national championship.

It's funny to see folks on Twitter and MMB talk about App State making a major bowl and playing with the big boys. App State did not make a move to play with Alabama, LSU and Clemson. They made a move to make sure they weren't left in DII again when the next split happened.

It's a brilliant move. We get better competition and eventually we'll get a landscape that looks similar to what we experienced at our peak in the SoCon.

It'll take time for things to shake out but App State is right where it needs to be.

Rick and ARJ are correct. Retyping my post that disappeared:

As has been said for several years the reason we had to move was the fact that the P5 is and always has been about taking everything they can and that the rest of FBS will be the new FCS and the current FCS will be the new D II. Hobson’s Choice. This has been talked and written about in and around the college football inner sanctum for more than five years now. Wrenches have been thrown in each year that have caused things to shift a little one way and then a little the other but the long term goal of the P5 has not changed (MONEY). What form it finally takes is yet to be seen but the fact that something is going to happen still is said to be when, not if. Until I hear a change in tone of this narrative I'm just sitting back and waiting to see where we finally wind up.

Personally I would rather be in FBS, even if it does become the new FCS, and be playing peer schools than in the new D II playing with 50 scholarships. People talk about us being the best we can be. App will never be in a P5 conference. So going on that fact playing schools that are closer to our level and working to beat them is the way to be the best we can be.

[newtoasu]

I don't know why people want a G5 school at the table in a 8-team playoff scenario. It would be such a joke. Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl on a fluke a couple of years ago and Florida State had their second string in the entire second half.

We just need to wait until the P5 gets what they want, an all P5 league, and we can go about taking care of our business.

Try telling that to Boise State and Oklahoma. I seem to remember a G5 winning the Fiesta Bowl a few years ago. Oklahoma was not laughing.

[APPARJ]

I don't know why people want a G5 school at the table in a 8-team playoff scenario. It would be such a joke. Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl on a fluke a couple of years ago and Florida State had their second string in the entire second half.

We just need to wait until the P5 gets what they want, an all P5 league, and we can go about taking care of our business.

Try telling that to Boise State and Oklahoma. I seem to remember a G5 winning the Fiesta Bowl a few years ago. Oklahoma was not laughing.

The exception. Not the rule. Let's not kid ourselves. App State will never be on the same level as the top P5 Programs. And so what? I challenge anyone to tell me I had LESS fun in 2007 because App wasn't a BCS team. Being a Mountaineer is bigger that P5 or G5. Those are just details.

I'll take being an App State grad over any SEC school.

[WVAPPeer]

I don't know that being 12-0 would be good enough to be ranked ahead of another G5. Marshall was 11-0 and the knock on them was their CUSA schedule was weak. So how would a 11-0 SB record be perceived? Beating Clemson would help our case but unless we are just blowing the doors off everyone then we may still have the same problem as Marshall.

A 13-0 Marshall team absolutely gets the G5 bid over a two loss Boise St. team. If App runs its table next year they absolutely beat out any G5 conference champ with 2 losses.

Really? Are you sure about that? Marshall was 11-0 going into the WKU game and was still behind a 2 loss Boise St. team.

You are correct 94 - I watched several panels of "experts" say that the only way for Marshall to get in was to go 13-0 and Boise not win their championship - Marshall was not even close ---

[Yosef]

8 Team playoff using the top 7 bowls. Rotate bowls so each has a Nat Champ game each 7 years. Payouts are the same for each bowl except the LOSER gets the highest payout except for the Nat Champ game, that way each team, win or lose, makes more money than the current system. 5 P5 champs (however that conf decides a champ, their choice), highest ranked G5, and 2 at-large.

Ex: Lets just say each bowl pays $10M and normally goes $4M to loser and $6M to winner, now if you lose first game, you get $2M more. If someone wins first round and loses 2nd, they get $10M total. If you win 1st two and lose Nat Champ, you get $12M and if you win you get $14M. Everybody gets more money and that's ALL ANYONE seems to care about anyway.

I reposted because I still think this is a do-able scenario because everyone gets what they want ...money. I don't see how anyone could say FSU was the weakest of anything. They were the only team in the conversation that played 12 games against P5 competition, and they won. OSU's loss against VT was the worst of the bunch. Big 12 was a bit overrated this year but I still think the conference was better than the Big 10. Only two head-2-head's was Iowa St beating Iowa and WVU beating Maryland.

What your scenario effectively does is take the last few teams selected for a bowl and kicks them out of bowl games and gives their money to the top 8. Nothing wrong with it but I wouldn't say everyone gets what they want. This actually negatively impacts App more than it helps us (unless they add on more bowls) as our likelihood of being in the top 8 is slim to none.

[AppSt94]

8 Team playoff using the top 7 bowls. Rotate bowls so each has a Nat Champ game each 7 years. Payouts are the same for each bowl except the LOSER gets the highest payout except for the Nat Champ game, that way each team, win or lose, makes more money than the current system. 5 P5 champs (however that conf decides a champ, their choice), highest ranked G5, and 2 at-large.

Ex: Lets just say each bowl pays $10M and normally goes $4M to loser and $6M to winner, now if you lose first game, you get $2M more. If someone wins first round and loses 2nd, they get $10M total. If you win 1st two and lose Nat Champ, you get $12M and if you win you get $14M. Everybody gets more money and that's ALL ANYONE seems to care about anyway.

I reposted because I still think this is a do-able scenario because everyone gets what they want ...money. I don't see how anyone could say FSU was the weakest of anything. They were the only team in the conversation that played 12 games against P5 competition, and they won. OSU's loss against VT was the worst of the bunch. Big 12 was a bit overrated this year but I still think the conference was better than the Big 10. Only two head-2-head's was Iowa St beating Iowa and WVU beating Maryland.

What your scenario effectively does is take the last few teams selected for a bowl and kicks them out of bowl games and gives their money to the top 8. Nothing wrong with it but I wouldn't say everyone gets what they want. This actually negatively impacts App more than it helps us (unless they add on more bowls) as our likelihood of being in the top 8 is slim to none.

I don't disagree with your idea. My only objection would be playing these games in bowl cities.. If you are an Alabama fan, is it fiscally possible for a large contingent of fans to travel to three different cities on three consecutive weekend? Also, the bowl game itself is the crescendo to a week' long party so I doubt the bowls would want to give up the festivities. I propose a 24 team tourney played at the highest ranked teams house. The NCAA keeps all gate receipts and pays out travel for visiting team and game day operations. You do this until the semis which can be played using two bowls played on New Years Day and the Championship the following week. Schools are still generally out so minimal loss of class time. For those teams that would have classes they can take an online African American Studies class from UNC that would transfer.

[AppSt94]

8 Team playoff using the top 7 bowls. Rotate bowls so each has a Nat Champ game each 7 years. Payouts are the same for each bowl except the LOSER gets the highest payout except for the Nat Champ game, that way each team, win or lose, makes more money than the current system. 5 P5 champs (however that conf decides a champ, their choice), highest ranked G5, and 2 at-large.

Ex: Lets just say each bowl pays $10M and normally goes $4M to loser and $6M to winner, now if you lose first game, you get $2M more. If someone wins first round and loses 2nd, they get $10M total. If you win 1st two and lose Nat Champ, you get $12M and if you win you get $14M. Everybody gets more money and that's ALL ANYONE seems to care about anyway.

I reposted because I still think this is a do-able scenario because everyone gets what they want ...money. I don't see how anyone could say FSU was the weakest of anything. They were the only team in the conversation that played 12 games against P5 competition, and they won. OSU's loss against VT was the worst of the bunch. Big 12 was a bit overrated this year but I still think the conference was better than the Big 10. Only two head-2-head's was Iowa St beating Iowa and WVU beating Maryland.

What your scenario effectively does is take the last few teams selected for a bowl and kicks them out of bowl games and gives their money to the top 8. Nothing wrong with it but I wouldn't say everyone gets what they want. This actually negatively impacts App more than it helps us (unless they add on more bowls) as our likelihood of being in the top 8 is slim to none.

I don't disagree with your idea. My only objection would be playing these games in bowl cities.. If you are an Alabama fan, is it fiscally possible for a large contingent of fans to travel to three different cities on three consecutive weekend? Also, the bowl game itself is the crescendo to a week' long party so I doubt the bowls would want to give up the festivities. I propose a 24 team tourney played at the highest ranked teams house. The NCAA keeps all gate receipts and pays out travel for visiting team and game day operations. You do this until the semis which can be played using two bowls played on New Years Day and the Championship the following week. Schools are still generally out so minimal loss of class time. For those teams that would have classes they can take an online African American Studies class from UNC that would transfer.

[APPARJ]

My only objection would be playing these games in bowl cities.. If you are an Alabama fan, is it fiscally possible for a large contingent of fans to travel to three different cities on three consecutive weekend?

This is the biggest problem with the playoffs regardless of FBS or FCS. It's why we would only turn out 15-18K for home playoff games.

[EastHallApp]

I don't know why people want a G5 school at the table in a 8-team playoff scenario. It would be such a joke. Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl on a fluke a couple of years ago and Florida State had their second string in the entire second half.

We just need to wait until the P5 gets what they want, an all P5 league, and we can go about taking care of our business.

Try telling that to Boise State and Oklahoma. I seem to remember a G5 winning the Fiesta Bowl a few years ago. Oklahoma was not laughing.

The exception. Not the rule. Let's not kid ourselves. App State will never be on the same level as the top P5 Programs.

Fact: In the BCS era, G5 teams were 5-2 vs. P5 teams in BCS bowls.

Your Northern Illinois example is both cherry-picked and exaggerated IMO. For one, FSU did not have "their second string in for the entire second half"; the score was 17-10 at the end of the 3rd quarter. More importantly, Northern Illinois just wasn't a very deserving team. As you said, they were there on a fluke.There isn't an elite G5 team every year - but some years, there is.

You are correct that App State will never be on the level of the top P5 programs - and yet, there's one G5 spot guaranteed in the major bowls every year. Why not us? Not necessarily in 2015, but eventually.

As far as Boise being the exception to the rule - of course they are. Any highly successful program is. That's the goal for everyone - to be exceptional.

.

[APPARJ]

I don't know why people want a G5 school at the table in a 8-team playoff scenario. It would be such a joke. Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl on a fluke a couple of years ago and Florida State had their second string in the entire second half.

We just need to wait until the P5 gets what they want, an all P5 league, and we can go about taking care of our business.

Try telling that to Boise State and Oklahoma. I seem to remember a G5 winning the Fiesta Bowl a few years ago. Oklahoma was not laughing.

The exception. Not the rule. Let's not kid ourselves. App State will never be on the same level as the top P5 Programs.

Fact: In the BCS era, G5 teams were 5-2 vs. P5 teams in BCS bowls.

Your Northern Illinois example is both cherry-picked and exaggerated IMO. For one, FSU did not have "their second string in for the entire second half"; the score was 17-10 at the end of the 3rd quarter. More importantly, Northern Illinois just wasn't a very deserving team. As you said, they were there on a fluke.There isn't an elite G5 team every year - but some years, there is.

You are correct that App State will never be on the level of the top P5 programs - and yet, there's one G5 spot guaranteed in the major bowls every year. Why not us? Not necessarily in 2015, but eventually.

As far as Boise being the exception to the rule - of course they are. Any highly successful program is. That's the goal for everyone - to be exceptional.

.

Okay so clearly you'd rather wait for that once in a decade moment when we MIGHT could be in a P5 playoff spot. I, on the other hand, know it's a waste of time and energy.

Speaking of cherry picking... How many of those 5 wins from G5 schools are still G5 schools today? I know Utah and TCU are now P5 (as they should be) and Boise has 2 of those wins and we all know they're in a different league.

App is not and never will be a P5 school. To pretend that it would be a worthy effort to strive for a P5 playoff appearance is ludicrous.

But it doesn't matter. In the near future we'll be in a position to experience post-season play with peer institutions and all of this talk of making a P5 playoff appearance will be ancient history.

[bigdaddyg]

We all knew the deal when the decision was made to move up. We all also know that nothing with conference affiliation is etched in stone and year by year everthing is subject to change. From a simple numbers standpoint App may never contend for a NC. Scroll down the list of P5 and G5 schools and realistically look at the household names who will, more than likely never contend for a NC (including UNC and NCSU). I have wondered if a G5 NC would be viable. Some contend that if this were to happen it would be a glorified FCS setup. Guess the argument can go either way. Would a Northern Illinois v App G5 NC make any noise whatsoever nationally like an Alabama v Oregon NC will? Of course not. Do we REALLY wish we were still in the FCS playoffs, other than because we are Jonesing for some football? If we are completely honest, the answer has to be no. Go right now to ESPN.com on the college football page and look for any news regarding the FCS playoffs- nothing! Winning the NC's was awesome and many of us thumped our chests and said "we can beat so and so in the FBS!" Truth is we hit the ceiling. Now we have lots of goals to attain.

[bcoach]

I don't know why people want a G5 school at the table in a 8-team playoff scenario. It would be such a joke. Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl on a fluke a couple of years ago and Florida State had their second string in the entire second half.

We just need to wait until the P5 gets what they want, an all P5 league, and we can go about taking care of our business.

Try telling that to Boise State and Oklahoma. I seem to remember a G5 winning the Fiesta Bowl a few years ago. Oklahoma was not laughing.

The exception. Not the rule. Let's not kid ourselves. App State will never be on the same level as the top P5 Programs.

Fact: In the BCS era, G5 teams were 5-2 vs. P5 teams in BCS bowls.

Your Northern Illinois example is both cherry-picked and exaggerated IMO. For one, FSU did not have "their second string in for the entire second half"; the score was 17-10 at the end of the 3rd quarter. More importantly, Northern Illinois just wasn't a very deserving team. As you said, they were there on a fluke.There isn't an elite G5 team every year - but some years, there is.

You are correct that App State will never be on the level of the top P5 programs - and yet, there's one G5 spot guaranteed in the major bowls every year. Why not us? Not necessarily in 2015, but eventually.

As far as Boise being the exception to the rule - of course they are. Any highly successful program is. That's the goal for everyone - to be exceptional.

.

I am very happy with the turnaround we had this year. We did a great job. With that said if we are ever going to get that one spot, the SB is going to have to get a lot stronger. The simple truth is that two FCS transitional teams placed in the top three of the conference. Running the table in this conference as it is today is not going to get you there. So in addition to what has already been stated, If we are going to get into a playoff I am afraid it is going to be after the split.

[APPARJ]

We all knew the deal when the decision was made to move up. We all also know that nothing with conference affiliation is etched in stone and year by year everthing is subject to change. From a simple numbers standpoint App may never contend for a NC. Scroll down the list of P5 and G5 schools and realistically look at the household names who will, more than likely never contend for a NC (including UNC and NCSU). I have wondered if a G5 NC would be viable. Some contend that if this were to happen it would be a glorified FCS setup. Guess the argument can go either way. Would a Northern Illinois v App G5 NC make any noise whatsoever nationally like an Alabama v Oregon NC will? Of course not. Do we REALLY wish we were still in the FCS playoffs, other than because we are Jonesing for some football? If we are completely honest, the answer has to be no. Go right now to ESPN.com on the college football page and look for any news regarding the FCS playoffs- nothing! Winning the NC's was awesome and many of us thumped our chests and said "we can beat so and so in the FBS!" Truth is we hit the ceiling. Now we have lots of goals to attain.

Question, what does the lack of FCS news on ESPN's CFB page have to do with anything?

ESPN doesn't cover the G5 either regardless of their playoff/bowl status.

But a playoff system with the G5 would be much more appealing than FCS. Instead of Maine, Coastal and South Carolina State we might play Marshall, UCF and ECU. That would be really cool.

[bigdaddyg]

We all knew the deal when the decision was made to move up. We all also know that nothing with conference affiliation is etched in stone and year by year everthing is subject to change. From a simple numbers standpoint App may never contend for a NC. Scroll down the list of P5 and G5 schools and realistically look at the household names who will, more than likely never contend for a NC (including UNC and NCSU). I have wondered if a G5 NC would be viable. Some contend that if this were to happen it would be a glorified FCS setup. Guess the argument can go either way. Would a Northern Illinois v App G5 NC make any noise whatsoever nationally like an Alabama v Oregon NC will? Of course not. Do we REALLY wish we were still in the FCS playoffs, other than because we are Jonesing for some football? If we are completely honest, the answer has to be no. Go right now to ESPN.com on the college football page and look for any news regarding the FCS playoffs- nothing! Winning the NC's was awesome and many of us thumped our chests and said "we can beat so and so in the FBS!" Truth is we hit the ceiling. Now we have lots of goals to attain.

Question, what does the lack of FCS news on ESPN's CFB page have to do with anything?

ESPN doesn't cover the G5 either regardless of their playoff/bowl status.

But a playoff system with the G5 would be much more appealing than FCS. Instead of Maine, Coastal and South Carolina State we might play Marshall, UCF and ECU. That would be really cool.

Only point about the lack of any story echos that FCS playoffs don't move the needle outside of the cities where they happen. Just a reality (and I loved the playoffs). A G5 playoff with the possible scenario you suggest would be great and might carry some interest if played up. But it probably won't happen for a long time.

Interesting attendance stats from last Saturday's FCS playoffs (home team):

New Hampshire- 4,021
Chatty- 8,419
Coastal- 5,601
Jacksonville St- 10,832
Illinois St- 5,575
ND State- 18,113 (of course)
E Wash- 7,919
Villanova- 3,113 (wow).