Sun Belt to Discuss Our Membership March 9th

[GoApps70]

Could be wrong, but think the SB had already agreed on App State and then Friday or Saturday agreed to take Georgia Southern before this meeting they had yesterday morning. Seems there was an agreement between the West and East SB schools to take NMSU if they voted us and GaSo in. That either wasn't the deal as solid as the West schools thought it was, or one of the East schools, I believe Troy, decided to bring up other options because of the distance to NMSU and their poor football team. My thinking is that was when Sam Houston and Liberty was brought up. There are SB factions in that meeting that strongly object to both those schools, so that pretty much set off a verbal exchange. Some schools have actually made remarks that they would leave if either were added to their fans.

Imagine Benson wants NMSU in due to his past association with them as WAC commissioner, and that he will work the Eastern SB presidents for a compromise to let them into the SB.

Sounds as if JMU turned down the SB, or did not aggressively pursue a SB invite like us last year, due to them being taken out of the equation - just a guess.

Believe a better idea of the situation can be gained by listening to the full media conference of Karl Benson yesterday, but think of it as listening to double speak. A link follows.

http://www.sunbeltondemand.com/#!/view/ ... nce-3-9-13

[mtnjax]

Gotta finish getting ready for church; but didn't find it in two run-throughs. Wasn't aware you could completely delete a post there! Will do a more through search this pm.

from Turnbury79 (an App State grad) on the SunBeltbbs...

Appalachian is in fact a done deal.......have known that for just under three weeks. When the conference office announces the invitations I have no idea. I do know that the Appalachian has already started the process of gearing up and would not have done this unless they knew they would be transitioning.

Due to professional responsibility, I cannot say how I obtained this information or who I have spoken to. I can just say that I know people on both sides of the ledger very well.

It makes sense to pair Georgia Southern with Appalachian for a number of reasons beyond their both having supporting administrations and aggressive athletic departments with the desire and financial ability to meet and surpass the criteria for FCS inclusion. First, they do not expand the conference footprint very much and choosing them would insure that all member institutions are from the same "athletic culture". That is more of a factor than most imagine. Many people I speak to in my practice see that, as time goes by, as becoming a problem for the conferences that have overly large footprints.

As for travel, athletic departments have to look at that very closely, more so for Olympic sports than the major ones. With the cost of travel rising quickly, and no end to those increases in sight, that expenditure not only dramatically impacts the financial welfare of athletic departments but at some point will create problems with Title IX compliance. If the University of West Virginia is already complaining, even with their large media rights revenue, about the cost of their travel as a member of the Big 12, you know it is a serious point of concern for institutions in G5 conferences. In short, with NMSU well outside of the defined SBC footprint, their inclusion under normal circumstances would be difficult to argue. Furthermore, NMSU being a current FBS member is not as important a factor as many posters have stated. The Sun Belt and the situation the WAC faced recently are not in any manner the same. But, as I noted earlier, other factors are at play that are unique to this situation. I do think that a case will be made by the conference office to add NMSU and, depending on how strong that case is made and how well it is delivered, that they will be invited despite the fact that their inclusion will increase travel related costs for all member institutions. It is up in the air if NMSU brings any net gain financially to the conference. Clearly, that is not the case in football as it would be difficult to argue, looking at their total football history, that they have only been going through a couple of lean years in that sport.

I can say that I am not talking about any dictate from the NCAA to add NMSU. The NCAA has enough troubles without adding something like that to their list. Clearly, no one would stand for that as it would set a precedent that goes nowhere but to a federal courtroom.

A quick note, although I am an Appalachian graduate from the mid 70's, I am not, as many call, "pimping" for my alma mater. I practice in areas associated with both media law and college sports, so in my work I have to look at issues based in reality and weigh the facts as I see them. That is what I try to do when I post.

When all is said and done, Appalachian, and probably Georgia Southern, will be where they should be and, I hope, that they stay there for a very long time and can help the conference grow and prosper. Appalachian is very similar to the current member institutions in countless ways......not just in athletics. I also think fans of the other institutions will enjoy a road trip to Boone in the fall. The mountains are beautiful and you will find that the people are more than accommodating. I personally look forward to the opportunity to enjoy games at the Sun Belt member institutions that I have never had chance to visit.

Chuck, is his post still there? I can't find it.

The quote did not come from the SunBeltBBS board. It came from the conference realignment section of the BBS. I believe the subject is "Appalachian, Tulsa, and WKU will have new conference homes" or something to that effect.

Thread link:

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=622877

[Maddog1956]

I got two things out of COMMISSIONER KARL BENSON PRESS CONFERENCE.

1) First he is herding cats. They had a circle jerk and are all over the place. They don't know if they really want to be a competitive conference of just have a easy way to the new play off system for existing members.

2) That if they want to be a part of the new system they better set up a championship game and get to 12 teams, which he is having a hard getting them to agree on even that. He seems a little concerned that if they don't they might even lose out on this

3) They would like to have a QA to a bowl.

This comes from a lot of reading between the lines, but I think he's pretty clear on those two issues.... 12 teams...championship game and a qa to a bowl.

Are the other schools worried about adding teams with successful football? Or does having a good football team move the SB to more revenue opportunity in the new playoff. He is trying to get them to think of the conference instead of the each school. (adding better football teams?)

Don't think this changes much for App but maybe the timing. He seem to know where he thinks he knows where they need to go, but not every school is in agreement.

[GoApps70]

Seems to go against the grain if the Sun Belt is concerned about the BCS participatory percentage of money to the SB by taking NMSU. They are already FBS, but cost of travel will hurt each conference member, and their past football records provide little hope they will be good in football anytime in the future. If you go back to the 1890's when they started football they have about half of their history had zero to two win seasons.

Think the SB is probably only looking at them for football. NMSU is a basketball school and would probably take the AQ in basketball most years, not putting another SB school into the tournament, especially with WKU, probably, and MTSU moving to CUSA.

Western SB schools though want more convenient schools to them, plus want to add to their voting block. Adding App State and GaSo will hurt that voting block for them.

Could be that some conference football members also want to add a pretty easy football win since they have heard so much about us and GaSo in FCS football, to ensure their job continuation. They would deny that of course.

Also, Benson probably feels he needs to throw a life line to NMSU if he can since he knows them well and used to be the WAC commissioner. He would probably try to with Idaho if they were not so much farther away than even NMSU.

Will be interesting to see what happens with NMSU in the next week or two. Some schools president is going to have to change their mind and actually sounds like at least two will have to. If Benson cannot get that agreement, then NMSU will not get in. If that becomes the case, what other Western school would they go after. Would think Missouri State would be the only other one that might have a chance, since several SB conference members will not take any SLC schools. Or just go with the two Eastern, but Western schools would not really like that since it shifts power more to the East.

[HeffnerIV]

Seems to go against the grain if the Sun Belt is concerned about the BCS participatory percentage of money to the SB by taking NMSU. They are already FBS, but cost of travel will hurt each conference member, and their past football records provide little hope they will be good in football anytime in the future. If you go back to the 1890's when they started football they have about half of their history had zero to two win seasons.

Think the SB is probably only looking at them for football. NMSU is a basketball school and would probably take the AQ in basketball most years, not putting another SB school into the tournament, especially with WKU, probably, and MTSU moving to CUSA.

Western SB schools though want more convenient schools to them, plus want to add to their voting block. Adding App State and GaSo will hurt that voting block for them.

Could be that some conference football members also want to add a pretty easy football win since they have heard so much about us and GaSo in FCS football, to ensure their job continuation. They would deny that of course.

Also, Benson probably feels he needs to throw a life line to NMSU if he can since he knows them well and used to be the WAC commissioner. He would probably try to with Idaho if they were not so much farther away than even NMSU.

Will be interesting to see what happens with NMSU in the next week or two. Some schools president is going to have to change their mind and actually sounds like at least two will have to. If Benson cannot get that agreement, then NMSU will not get in. If that becomes the case, what other Western school would they go after. Would think Missouri State would be the only other one that might have a chance, since several SB conference members will not take any SLC schools. Or just go with the two Eastern, but Western schools would not really like that since it shifts power more to the East.

Why are they against a Southland school?

[sixtoes9134]

some of the SBC schools who were originally SLC feel like they left that behind a while ago.

[HeffnerIV]

some of the SBC schools who were originally SLC feel like they left that behind a while ago.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[happyappy84]

It seems like a lot of people on here are taking the message board rumors on the Sun Belt board as absolute fact. I have not seen so much as one tweet from a semi-reputable source to back up any of this stuff about in fighting or disputes between the schools. What is more likely: 1. That one or two random posters on the Sun Belt board (who have already been wrong atleast twice by my count) have inside scoop that no other reporter or beat writer has or 2. A couple of bozos want to feel important, so they "break the news" that the two most obvious canidates are joining the Sun Belt, and then when it doesn't happen they come up with some story from their secret sources?

If I had to guess, I would guess that App and Georgia Southern are safely in. So why no announcement yesterday? Because it is not necessary until they have all their ducks in a row. App and Georgia Southern are not going anywhere else. When WKU leaves, they are 7 for football. They are going to 10 or 12. At the absolute minimum, they have to add 3 schools. If more schools leave, add more. If they decide to go to 12 for football, add more. Choice 1 and 2 are not the problem; it's choice 3, 4, 5, etc. that they have to decide on. That is why 20 schools are in the mix. Once you get past App and Southern (and even NMSU) into the Idaho/Liberty/Sam Houston State/Lamar territory, you have some real tough decisions to make. You probably have 10-15 schools that don't have a lot of seperation between themselves, and the conference could go in any number of directons based on geography, upside, etc. Not only do you have to decide who to invite now, you have to get a plan B and C and D lined up.

Having said that, I think it's far more likely that the schools are just getting everything in order before they make an official announcement. They said that a conference format will be announced within 30 days and that invites will go out soon, so I think they are really close and I would be absolutely stunned if App and Southern are not locked in already. All this talk about in fighting and back stabbing between the current members is just unsubstantiated message board garbage.

[AppAttack]

Of course it's message board garbage, that's what these are. Message boards. They're fun to follow but that's it. Nobody knows anything. The only thing we need to watch is Benson's interview and deduce what you will.

[GoAppsGo92]

It seems like a lot of people on here are taking the message board rumors on the Sun Belt board as absolute fact. I have not seen so much as one tweet from a semi-reputable source to back up any of this stuff about in fighting or disputes between the schools. What is more likely: 1. That one or two random posters on the Sun Belt board (who have already been wrong atleast twice by my count) have inside scoop that no other reporter or beat writer has or 2. A couple of bozos want to feel important, so they "break the news" that the two most obvious canidates are joining the Sun Belt, and then when it doesn't happen they come up with some story from their secret sources?

If I had to guess, I would guess that App and Georgia Southern are safely in. So why no announcement yesterday? Because it is not necessary until they have all their ducks in a row. App and Georgia Southern are not going anywhere else. When WKU leaves, they are 7 for football. They are going to 10 or 12. At the absolute minimum, they have to add 3 schools. If more schools leave, add more. If they decide to go to 12 for football, add more. Choice 1 and 2 are not the problem; it's choice 3, 4, 5, etc. that they have to decide on. That is why 20 schools are in the mix. Once you get past App and Southern (and even NMSU) into the Idaho/Liberty/Sam Houston State/Lamar territory, you have some real tough decisions to make. You probably have 10-15 schools that don't have a lot of seperation between themselves, and the conference could go in any number of directons based on geography, upside, etc. Not only do you have to decide who to invite now, you have to get a plan B and C and D lined up.

Having said that, I think it's far more likely that the schools are just getting everything in order before they make an official announcement. They said that a conference format will be announced within 30 days and that invites will go out soon, so I think they are really close and I would be absolutely stunned if App and Southern are not locked in already. All this talk about in fighting and back stabbing between the current members is just unsubstantiated message board garbage.

Based on what I am hearing, there was a disagreement yesterday, where there had originally been hope that a third school would have been agreed upon and idenitifed. No, not the shouting match that is being laid out there... no storming off or anything... afterall, these are people who are in executive postions at universities.... but there was a disagreement that could not be resolved. I think unless SOMETHING is done to justify NMSU's inclusion... they are dead in the water. That's why Benson is pulling out the list of prospects again to see if there is another option that makes sense for everyone. What appears to be implied also is that Virginia is too far north and east for the conference at this time... we have to be looking South and West for a school that everyone can agree to.

[GoAppsGo92]

from Turnbury79 (an App State grad) on the SunBeltbbs...

Appalachian is in fact a done deal.......have known that for just under three weeks. When the conference office announces the invitations I have no idea. I do know that the Appalachian has already started the process of gearing up and would not have done this unless they knew they would be transitioning.

Due to professional responsibility, I cannot say how I obtained this information or who I have spoken to. I can just say that I know people on both sides of the ledger very well.

It makes sense to pair Georgia Southern with Appalachian for a number of reasons beyond their both having supporting administrations and aggressive athletic departments with the desire and financial ability to meet and surpass the criteria for FCS inclusion. First, they do not expand the conference footprint very much and choosing them would insure that all member institutions are from the same "athletic culture". That is more of a factor than most imagine. Many people I speak to in my practice see that, as time goes by, as becoming a problem for the conferences that have overly large footprints.

As for travel, athletic departments have to look at that very closely, more so for Olympic sports than the major ones. With the cost of travel rising quickly, and no end to those increases in sight, that expenditure not only dramatically impacts the financial welfare of athletic departments but at some point will create problems with Title IX compliance. If the University of West Virginia is already complaining, even with their large media rights revenue, about the cost of their travel as a member of the Big 12, you know it is a serious point of concern for institutions in G5 conferences. In short, with NMSU well outside of the defined SBC footprint, their inclusion under normal circumstances would be difficult to argue. Furthermore, NMSU being a current FBS member is not as important a factor as many posters have stated. The Sun Belt and the situation the WAC faced recently are not in any manner the same. But, as I noted earlier, other factors are at play that are unique to this situation. I do think that a case will be made by the conference office to add NMSU and, depending on how strong that case is made and how well it is delivered, that they will be invited despite the fact that their inclusion will increase travel related costs for all member institutions. It is up in the air if NMSU brings any net gain financially to the conference. Clearly, that is not the case in football as it would be difficult to argue, looking at their total football history, that they have only been going through a couple of lean years in that sport.

I can say that I am not talking about any dictate from the NCAA to add NMSU. The NCAA has enough troubles without adding something like that to their list. Clearly, no one would stand for that as it would set a precedent that goes nowhere but to a federal courtroom.

A quick note, although I am an Appalachian graduate from the mid 70's, I am not, as many call, "pimping" for my alma mater. I practice in areas associated with both media law and college sports, so in my work I have to look at issues based in reality and weigh the facts as I see them. That is what I try to do when I post.

When all is said and done, Appalachian, and probably Georgia Southern, will be where they should be and, I hope, that they stay there for a very long time and can help the conference grow and prosper. Appalachian is very similar to the current member institutions in countless ways......not just in athletics. I also think fans of the other institutions will enjoy a road trip to Boone in the fall. The mountains are beautiful and you will find that the people are more than accommodating. I personally look forward to the opportunity to enjoy games at the Sun Belt member institutions that I have never had chance to visit.

It is important to note that Turnbury's posting occured BEFORE news about the SBC meeting began to trickle out there, and certainly before Benson's press conference... His obervations on NMSU are even more astute given the timing of his post...

[hapapp]

from Turnbury79 (an App State grad) on the SunBeltbbs...

Appalachian is in fact a done deal.......have known that for just under three weeks. When the conference office announces the invitations I have no idea. I do know that the Appalachian has already started the process of gearing up and would not have done this unless they knew they would be transitioning.

Due to professional responsibility, I cannot say how I obtained this information or who I have spoken to. I can just say that I know people on both sides of the ledger very well.

It makes sense to pair Georgia Southern with Appalachian for a number of reasons beyond their both having supporting administrations and aggressive athletic departments with the desire and financial ability to meet and surpass the criteria for FCS inclusion. First, they do not expand the conference footprint very much and choosing them would insure that all member institutions are from the same "athletic culture". That is more of a factor than most imagine. Many people I speak to in my practice see that, as time goes by, as becoming a problem for the conferences that have overly large footprints.

As for travel, athletic departments have to look at that very closely, more so for Olympic sports than the major ones. With the cost of travel rising quickly, and no end to those increases in sight, that expenditure not only dramatically impacts the financial welfare of athletic departments but at some point will create problems with Title IX compliance. If the University of West Virginia is already complaining, even with their large media rights revenue, about the cost of their travel as a member of the Big 12, you know it is a serious point of concern for institutions in G5 conferences. In short, with NMSU well outside of the defined SBC footprint, their inclusion under normal circumstances would be difficult to argue. Furthermore, NMSU being a current FBS member is not as important a factor as many posters have stated. The Sun Belt and the situation the WAC faced recently are not in any manner the same. But, as I noted earlier, other factors are at play that are unique to this situation. I do think that a case will be made by the conference office to add NMSU and, depending on how strong that case is made and how well it is delivered, that they will be invited despite the fact that their inclusion will increase travel related costs for all member institutions. It is up in the air if NMSU brings any net gain financially to the conference. Clearly, that is not the case in football as it would be difficult to argue, looking at their total football history, that they have only been going through a couple of lean years in that sport.

I can say that I am not talking about any dictate from the NCAA to add NMSU. The NCAA has enough troubles without adding something like that to their list. Clearly, no one would stand for that as it would set a precedent that goes nowhere but to a federal courtroom.

A quick note, although I am an Appalachian graduate from the mid 70's, I am not, as many call, "pimping" for my alma mater. I practice in areas associated with both media law and college sports, so in my work I have to look at issues based in reality and weigh the facts as I see them. That is what I try to do when I post.

When all is said and done, Appalachian, and probably Georgia Southern, will be where they should be and, I hope, that they stay there for a very long time and can help the conference grow and prosper. Appalachian is very similar to the current member institutions in countless ways......not just in athletics. I also think fans of the other institutions will enjoy a road trip to Boone in the fall. The mountains are beautiful and you will find that the people are more than accommodating. I personally look forward to the opportunity to enjoy games at the Sun Belt member institutions that I have never had chance to visit.

It is important to note that Turnbury's posting occured BEFORE news about the SBC meeting began to trickle out there, and certainly before Benson's press conference... His obervations on NMSU are even more astute given the timing of his post...

I agree. His post was not the typical message board banter. He sounded like he did know what he was talking about.

[vegattk]

[JCline0429]

Of course it's message board garbage, that's what these are. Message boards. They're fun to follow but that's it. Nobody knows anything. The only thing we need to watch is Benson's interview and deduce what you will.

Nail on the head, AppAttack. Rep point.

[Maddog1956]

I don't think anyone knows for sure because I don't think the SB knows for sure. Benson sounded like he maybe had the votes (for something) but he doesn't want to be 6 or 7 to 10 (or how many voting members there are). He knows he keeps his job if all the members walk away fairly happy. Right now there sounds like there are several configurations that are acceptable to some of the schools but none that are acceptable to all.

I heard nothing that made it seem that APP or GS is in at this time. I think both would improve the SB football side of things or make a better SB foot print in the south but I'm not really sure that is important to them. There could be many criteria that's more important. I don't know much at all about the SB or any of the school that are in it so I couldn't even guess what is important to them.

I would have thought that APP in the CUSA was an ideal fit also.

APP and GS may already be in and that would be great, but nothing he said gave any clue that the SB even knew what they were going to do themselves.

[JCline0429]

Madddog. What you said in your last paragraph is the answer to the myriad of speculations and predictions on this board over the past several months even to the outright predictions a few months ago by some MMB'ers that we were a shoe-in for the CUSA (and we know how that one turned out).

[firemoose]

I don't think anyone knows for sure because I don't think the SB knows for sure. Benson sounded like he maybe had the votes (for something) but he doesn't want to be 6 or 7 to 10 (or how many voting members there are). He knows he keeps his job if all the members walk away fairly happy. Right now there sounds like there are several configurations that are acceptable to some of the schools but none that are acceptable to all.

I heard nothing that made it seem that APP or GS is in at this time. I think both would improve the SB football side of things or make a better SB foot print in the south but I'm not really sure that is important to them. There could be many criteria that's more important. I don't know much at all about the SB or any of the school that are in it so I couldn't even guess what is important to them.

I would have thought that APP in the CUSA was an ideal fit also.

APP and GS may already be in and that would be great, but nothing he said gave any clue that the SB even knew what they were going to do themselves.

It's not just the SB. It's pretty much every FBS conference, even the Big 5 (4). No one knows what they are going to be doing yet. And until the Maryland case is decided no one will. Some moves will be made by the Go5 to position themselves but major moves will wait. And just because a team makes a move, or in our case moves up, that does not mean that is where they will be in a couple of years or even a few months. It's going to be three to five years before this whole thing is sorted out. Our best bet is to move up if offered and then see where things fall.

We might have to bite a hard bullet for a year or two (I doubt it will take that long but might as well plan for worse case) but when the moves are made and the real path that the huge amounts of money is going to take comes to light then the rest of the conferences will realign to give their members the best possible financial situation. This is going to take a while to play out but you can't dance if you aren't inside the dance hall.

[JCline0429]

I don't think anyone knows for sure because I don't think the SB knows for sure. Benson sounded like he maybe had the votes (for something) but he doesn't want to be 6 or 7 to 10 (or how many voting members there are). He knows he keeps his job if all the members walk away fairly happy. Right now there sounds like there are several configurations that are acceptable to some of the schools but none that are acceptable to all.

I heard nothing that made it seem that APP or GS is in at this time. I think both would improve the SB football side of things or make a better SB foot print in the south but I'm not really sure that is important to them. There could be many criteria that's more important. I don't know much at all about the SB or any of the school that are in it so I couldn't even guess what is important to them.

I would have thought that APP in the CUSA was an ideal fit also.

APP and GS may already be in and that would be great, but nothing he said gave any clue that the SB even knew what they were going to do themselves.

It's not just the SB. It's pretty much every FBS conference, even the Big 5 (4). No one knows what they are going to be doing yet. And until the Maryland case is decided no one will. Some moves will be made by the Go5 to position themselves but major moves will wait. And just because a team makes a move, or in our case moves up, that does not mean that is where they will be in a couple of years or even a few months. It's going to be three to five years before this whole thing is sorted out. Our best bet is to move up if offered and then see where things fall.

We might have to bite a hard bullet for a year or two (I doubt it will take that long but might as well plan for worse case) but when the moves are made and the real path that the huge amounts of money is going to take comes to light then the rest of the conferences will realign to give their members the best possible financial situation. This is going to take a while to play out but you can't dance if you aren't inside the dance hall.

Some dance halls aren't worthy of entering.

[MAD Doctor]

Some dance halls have a-holes at the door, who don't let the best dancers come in. They let some other poor ugly dancers inside but stand there with their arms crossed, almost taunting the would be dancers, because they know that their dance hall is the only one in town.

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't think anyone knows for sure because I don't think the SB knows for sure. Benson sounded like he maybe had the votes (for something) but he doesn't want to be 6 or 7 to 10 (or how many voting members there are). He knows he keeps his job if all the members walk away fairly happy. Right now there sounds like there are several configurations that are acceptable to some of the schools but none that are acceptable to all.

I heard nothing that made it seem that APP or GS is in at this time. I think both would improve the SB football side of things or make a better SB foot print in the south but I'm not really sure that is important to them. There could be many criteria that's more important. I don't know much at all about the SB or any of the school that are in it so I couldn't even guess what is important to them.

I would have thought that APP in the CUSA was an ideal fit also.

APP and GS may already be in and that would be great, but nothing he said gave any clue that the SB even knew what they were going to do themselves.

It's not just the SB. It's pretty much every FBS conference, even the Big 5 (4). No one knows what they are going to be doing yet. And until the Maryland case is decided no one will. Some moves will be made by the Go5 to position themselves but major moves will wait. And just because a team makes a move, or in our case moves up, that does not mean that is where they will be in a couple of years or even a few months. It's going to be three to five years before this whole thing is sorted out. Our best bet is to move up if offered and then see where things fall.

We might have to bite a hard bullet for a year or two (I doubt it will take that long but might as well plan for worse case) but when the moves are made and the real path that the huge amounts of money is going to take comes to light then the rest of the conferences will realign to give their members the best possible financial situation. This is going to take a while to play out but you can't dance if you aren't inside the dance hall.

Some dance halls aren't worthy of entering.

Sometimes the dance hall you're at isn't the same as it used to be, so you move the party to a better dance hall.