This would be Very Bad for AppState and UNC System

[HighlandsApp]

Tom Ross was forced out as System President last week.

Art Pope has stated that he wants to be University President. His father's legacy foundation only does work to dismantle public education.

Surprisingly there are a few on UNC Board of Governors with AppState ties, but it is almost exclusively UNCCH board.

Here Pope wants fewer students to go to University and go to Community College instead:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1725

Here College Education Not worth the Investment:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1541

Here is Pope argument that AppState and all UNC System Schools unfairly HURT Private Colleges and Universities in NC:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1541

[firemoose]

http://www.politicsnc.com/art-pope-is-no-bill-friday/

Tom Ross was forced out as System President last week.

Art Pope has stated that he wants to be University President. His father's legacy foundation only does work to dismantle public education.

Surprisingly there are a few on UNC Board of Governors with AppState ties, but it is almost exclusively UNCCH board. It is very surprising that McCrory and Pope were able to get the Board of Governors to oust Tom Ross. Something very strange is going on and has been evident that the NC Legislature and Pope have exerted control over the UNC Board of Governors.

http://chronicle.com/article/U-of-North ... na/151291/

There are a lot of people on campus (and others across the state) that are very worried right now. All I've heard about since the news leaked out.

[HighlandsApp]

I updated and added a few supporting articles from The Pope Center for Higher Education. As you read articles it becomes clear that it is really The Pope Center AGAINST Higher Education.

[App91]

http://www.politicsnc.com/art-pope-is-no-bill-friday/

Tom Ross was forced out as System President last week.

Art Pope has stated that he wants to be University President. His father's legacy foundation only does work to dismantle public education.

Surprisingly there are a few on UNC Board of Governors with AppState ties, but it is almost exclusively UNCCH board. It is very surprising that McCrory and Pope were able to get the Board of Governors to oust Tom Ross. Something very strange is going on and has been evident that the NC Legislature and Pope have exerted control over the UNC Board of Governors.

Here Pope wants fewer students to go to University and go to Community College instead:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1725

Here College Education Not worth the Investment:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1541

Here is Pope argument that AppState and all UNC System Schools unfairly HURT Private Colleges and Universities in NC:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1541

http://chronicle.com/article/U-of-North ... na/151291/

Sorry, you blew any semblance of balance out of the water with the first link. Left wing blog. To the political folder it goes!

[HighlandsApp]

Sorry, you blew any semblance of balance out of the water with the first link. Left wing blog. To the political folder it goes!

Ok. I have deleted that link and only have the other writing papers on the post.... NOT Normal political garbage. This is IMPORTANT to the funding and health of OUR University. Please move it back. Thanks for the tip....

[firemoose]

I'm as neutral (independent) as they come so whether this goes to the political folder or not matters not to me. All I'm saying is that I'm hearing from many people (left, right, and in between) that are very worried. Others may have but I don't have any agenda here. I'm just stating what is being said to me. Simple as that.

[HighlandsApp]

The only links are to Pope Center for Higher Education. I encourage all to read about a number of their studies and then decide if this is Good for AppState.

Pope Center Research Papers:

http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_papers/index.html

[AppSt94]

I for one don't see a problem with what I read. The cost of higher education has grown at a greater rate than inflation and it is not unjust to ask why. As I understood the information provided by the Pope Center is that the quality of education is not worth the excessive increase in price for said education. Corporations go through periods of fat trimming and maybe the public universities need to go through the same cleansing.

[HighlandsApp]

Most would agree with you on that general level AppSt94.

However, many of their studies look as though they go too far.

In a number of their policy pressures they call for ending overlapping degree programs in the system. There are dedicated articles ridiculing AppState's Fermentation Sciences program (Even though this is a Huge growth industry program; i.e JOBS), AppState's lack of need for a Nursing Program since there are already nursing programs at UNCC, UNCG, ECU and UNCCH and a call to end our Masters and Doctoral in Education as it is not needed.

So under the Pope Center model AppState goes from being a well regarded Comprehensive University to what? A teacher college? A business school? - wait there is already a great business school in Chapel Hill, so perhaps AppState should not have one.

They call for a REDUCTION in the UNC System enrollment and almost got a 1% reduction passed last year. This is over 2,700 students that are currently enrolled that may no have had that opportunity. That could have been my daughter who would have had to go to UNCC or UNCW instead as their model calls for pushing kids out of UNCCh to State, AppState and then down the line.

Yes, there should be accountability in how citizens tax dollars are spent, but AppState has grown enrollment all while growing in academic stature since I graduated in 1990. I have two of my four children at AppState now as students. My daughter just made Dean's List her first semester while my Junior son made Chancelor's list. My daughter was on the wait list at AppState with acceptances from UNCW, UNCG and wait list at State. She had huge academic scholarships from Berry, Emory and Henry, Roanoke and Guilford that would have made the total cost for her to attend between 110 and 135% of what AppState's cost is.

Who should control OUR University?

[AppSt94]

Admittedly the studies are flawed and the results are slanted but the ideology behind the studies has some merit. I don't see the university system becoming magnet schools.

[APPARJ]

If App State decided to simply maintain its beautiful campus instead of constantly building new "stuff", they would be able to operate at a significantly lower cost.

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

In principal, I'm 100% against gov't waste. Many people say they are but they won't support actual measures that eliminate it.

If you looked at what each school in the university system actually contributed vs. what they cost, I'm sure there would be several colleges that simply need to be shut down. Of course, I wouldn't be disappointed in the least.

With App State, I very much doubt there is a negative impact on the state. The economy in Boone is solely reliant on the school (which I think is great). If App State is currently spending way too much money, I wouldn't be surprised. I'll bet if some processes were streamlined you could eliminate plenty of jobs on campus.

Like everyone here, I hope this doesn't hurt App State because, trying to remain objective, I think it is a tremendous plus for the state. Now, UNC Pembroke? UNC Elizabethton? NC A&T? Are they worth having open and operating? I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

My degree is one that is practical in that it opens doors directly to jobs. I am a practical person so I prefer that, but college is not just about getting a job. It is also about learning about the world around you. Those less "pratical" degrees are needed on campuses to help out in the well-rounded nature of the education on any campus.

As far as UNC-P. I realize the average student enrolling there is not at the same level as some of the other colleges in the state. Those students need a chance as well, and to be honest I have been very impressed with the programs I have worked with at UNC-P. They do a lot with what they have in resources. And if some of these schools have a high drop-out rate. Well, I am ok with that. Better to give the students a chance than not.

We could shut down every school in the state and have one or two big universities in the state. I would not prefer that. I say share the wealth around the state. What does the extreme west have to replace WCU? What does the Pembroke area have to replace UNC-P? Even if you keep a campus open but cut many programs the school is not viable. A physics major is not required to have a Chem or Bio major, but one does need some physics in either degree as just one example.

I am not saying there is no waste in state gov't. But that waste may actually not be waste but the money for someone to have a job-a job that puts money back in the economy by spending the income in a variety of ways.

[appst89]

This one doesn't need to go to the Politics folder just yet.

[asu66]

I'm reading between the lines from "news" generated by the Governor's Office, the General Assembly, the Raleigh News & Observer, the UNC Board of Governors and others that Pope has practically appointed himself to be the next Pres. of the UNC system. Methinks that takes a lot of personal arrogance, personal power and influence and internal support from our state's power brokers. Me-also-thinks that most of us will rue the day Pope is coronated NC's King of IHEs. Scary thought.

[HighlandsApp]

Let's hope this is not what is being planned, although it is bizarre that Ross, who is described by most as a very highly respected President who has done a great job under extremely difficult circumstances and times only to be let go because "you are not 'our' guy"????? And all but one BOG voted to oust him?

Great comments and thoughts from MMB. I simply wanted to encourage all to be well read; to know what you want; to understand what you get and to know if something unpleasant and/or unhealthy to our University is being shoved down our throats.

[AppSt94]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

[APPARJ]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

[HighlandsApp]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

I think there is good merit in more general Liberal Arts degrees. I was hired by the old/real Wachovia through the university placement offices right upon graduating. Wachovia hired as many history/english/sociology majors as they did Economics/Business majors like me. Most Graduates jobs do not closely correlate to their major anyway unless they get an advanced degree.

[asu66]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

Nanny? Really?

I come down on the side of those who think that you're, generally speaking, awfully arrogant to question or challenge another apparently sincere Mountaineer's statement. What are your qualifications to make broad generalizations about careers? Are you a Fortune 100 corporation HR exec or something?

[APPARJ]

My degree is one that is practical in that it opens doors directly to jobs. I am a practical person so I prefer that, but college is not just about getting a job. It is also about learning about the world around you. Those less "pratical" degrees are needed on campuses to help out in the well-rounded nature of the education on any campus.

As far as UNC-P. I realize the average student enrolling there is not at the same level as some of the other colleges in the state. Those students need a chance as well, and to be honest I have been very impressed with the programs I have worked with at UNC-P. They do a lot with what they have in resources. And if some of these schools have a high drop-out rate. Well, I am ok with that. Better to give the students a chance than not.

We could shut down every school in the state and have one or two big universities in the state. I would not prefer that. I say share the wealth around the state. What does the extreme west have to replace WCU? What does the Pembroke area have to replace UNC-P? Even if you keep a campus open but cut many programs the school is not viable. A physics major is not required to have a Chem or Bio major, but one does need some physics in either degree as just one example.

I am not saying there is no waste in state gov't. But that waste may actually not be waste but the money for someone to have a job-a job that puts money back in the economy by spending the income in a variety of ways.

I am a practical person so I prefer that, but college is not just about getting a job. It is also about learning about the world around you. Those less "pratical" degrees are needed on campuses to help out in the well-rounded nature of the education on any campus.

So how do kids that don't want to go to college (or are unable) learn about the world around them? If you want to go to college because you want to learn about the world around you, don't worry. You can.... without taking on tens of thousands of dollars in debt for inflated tuition for a degree that won't help you pay it off.

Also, please explain why less practical degrees are needed on tax-payer funded campuses. Needed is a strong word and I'll be you can't find an economical answer to that statement.

Private school? Sure. Get whatever degree you want. I have no issues with that. But if you're using public money, it better clearly help the public.