Exodus of Faculty

[bcoach]

Ugh, so the answer is that no one currently knows why faculty members are leaving? I hate to break up the discussion of real estate markets and the habits of black voters, but I am actually interested in the actual thread topic.

I would guess that administration knows exactly why faculty is leaving.

[Maddog1956]

Ugh, so the answer is that no one currently knows why faculty members are leaving? I hate to break up the discussion of real estate markets and the habits of black voters, but I am actually interested in the actual thread topic.

Sorry ASUmountaineer but what I heard from a friend who has a cousin who dated someone at ASU is that Charlie Cobb was reading all the time on the MMB that he "should fire the whole bunch" and he "mistakenly" thought the reference was to teaching faculty ---

Just wondering would any of this be connected with the number of programs being dropped?

You wouldn't think that they would be talking about usually high turnover if that was the reason, but I guess some that haven't had their programs cut yet may see more coming down the road.

It would be good to know what programs they were in, in order to know if it's a change of direction, in what is being offered.

[Watauga72]

Ugh, so the answer is that no one currently knows why faculty members are leaving? I hate to break up the discussion of real estate markets and the habits of black voters, but I am actually interested in the actual thread topic.

I would guess that administration knows exactly why faculty is leaving.

bcoach, you're such a killjoy!

[ASUMountaineer]

Ugh, so the answer is that no one currently knows why faculty members are leaving? I hate to break up the discussion of real estate markets and the habits of black voters, but I am actually interested in the actual thread topic.

I would guess that administration knows exactly why faculty is leaving.

Thanks for stating the obvious--what an excellent contribution! Although, clearly, I was referring to MMB posters.

[ASUMountaineer]

Ugh, so the answer is that no one currently knows why faculty members are leaving? I hate to break up the discussion of real estate markets and the habits of black voters, but I am actually interested in the actual thread topic.

I would guess that administration knows exactly why faculty is leaving.

bcoach, you're such a killjoy!

Not a killjoy, simply sarcastic.

[asu66]

I stayed out of this discussion for four or five days--but no more. This has become (out of dozens) one of the more ridiculous discussions I can remember on the MMB. The author of the original post "Exodus of Faculty" mentioned that faculty turnover was in the news. He mentioned cost of living in The High Country, the state budget crisis and leadership (or lack of same) in the General Assembly. He even dropped a line or two about problems that may run deeper than Kraut Creek; and even dropped the name of the university provost who, without question, has faced a great deal of controversy in her short tenure. Then came a statement from a campus administrator that perhaps ASU is losing more faculty members this summer than last summer. Then came undocumented speculation from a professor that it may be worse than we think; or worse than we're being told. From there came debate about real estate price differentials between Boone and Denver. It's all downhill from there...

Conspiracy theories aside, there are some basic facts we ought to consider. College professors come and go. They do so for many reasons--economics being among the many. Sometimes, good professors leave and the replacements are of lesser stature for one reason or another. Sometimes, faculty members of lesser stature leave and are replaced by outstanding scholars and researchers. It's a never-ending parade. Sometimes, it's sort of like the coaching parade. You know...stepping stones!

None of this is new, BTW. I had an undergrad economics professor who came to tiny Appalachian State from a so-called "cushy" faculty position at Harvard. I asked him why he'd leave Harvard to teach at Appalachian. He responded, "I can't buy groceries with prestige." Economic considerations enter everyone's career decisions at one point or another. Always have; always will.

But good grief. Can we at least get this thread back to reality and civility? Here, for instance, is the story of faculty turnover in the Reich College of Education so far this summer. It comes directly from the Dean's 3.31.14 faculty update. Sorry, I find no conspiracy to whet your appetites.

Professor Trevor Stewart has taken a position at Virginia Tech, and, while we will miss him enormously, we congratulate him on this new position in Blacksburg. Also, Carla Meyer has accepted a position at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh—not far from her home. We will also miss her, however, we wish her family well during this transition.

I am delighted to report that we have hired two new Assistant Professors for the next academic year: Professor Michelle Flippin will be transferring from ASU Health Sciences to Special Education/Reading Department and Diana Moss, a recent doctoral graduate from U—Nevada to Curriculum and Instruction.

[Rekdiver]

I tall goes back to the move to the Sunbelt..............
"A Summer of Discontent""

thank you 66. Well said

[firemoose]

Agree with Rek. Well said 66'. I've stayed out of this for several reasons and you summed up a few of them nicely.

[MountainMan]

In a nutshell, there is not a mass exodus of faculty. At least not yet.

Faculty turnover is not uncommon and there are so many factors involved it's difficult to generalize. What is probably more unusual is the relative LACK of turnover over the previous 4-5 years. IMO, that was due to the almost country-wide lack of increases in state funding for universities (thus, very few incrementally new faculty positions created), the desire among those with a faculty job to hang on to it until times improved (at ASU and elsewhere), and the difficulty to make a move when it's difficult to sell a house or being in a situation with negative equity in a house.

As things have improved somewhat, more folks are naturally interested and able to look around. There have been some modest improvements in funding in some states and more positions are available.

The potential problem is longer-term, I think. If North Carolina continues down the path of reversing its past support for the UNC system and thinks that decent salary increases and reasonable work loads for faculty are not important, there WILL be more of an exodus of higher quality faculty.

[asu66]

Excellent post. The thread is back on track.

[wataugan03]

I'm not an expert, but from what I've gathered faculty tend to leave Boone because either: (1) They have an opportunity to go to another school that will pay them better/give them better research opportunities (2) get word that they aren't going to get tenured. A smaller portion of professors will jump simply because they just do not want to be in Boone anymore or because of a spouse's work.

I do think resentment towards the administration is high and that the faculty senate is not simply a small, but vocal minority - which is what many on here are claiming. But, in the end professors with tenure or professors on tenure track aren't likely to jump unless they can get something better or if they sense a hammer is about to drop on them. They've got too little to gain and too much to lose by changing institutions.

[Rekdiver]

Who knows? Maybe the new Chancellor decided to get rid of a few? Although when you see a Charlotte teacher can go to Rock Hill and get a $7,000 pay raise I'd bet good professors can get the same deal at an out of state university. I hate to do this but I will be voting for any "believable" candidate who stakes themself to a education platform that puts some money into teacher and professor pay. I really can't think of a more important issue facing our state.

[App74]

I just don't understand why the word turnover is viewed in such negative terms. Aside from some mass exodus, turnover is healthy and necessary for individuals and entities.

1. An individual leaves an entity perceiving a better opportunity/situation for himself/herself. That seems positive to me.

2. The entity brings in a new individual that is as well perceiving a better opportunity/situation for himself/herself. That seems positive to me.

Both entities benefit by having new faces, energy, inspiration and fresh ideas from a set of focused and motivated individuals desiring to make a positive impact. Both individuals benefit being more motivated to achieve and succeed in their new position.

[WVAPPeer]

I just don't understand why the word turnover is viewed in such negative terms. Aside from some mass exodus, turnover is healthy and necessary for individuals and entities.

1. An individual leaves an entity perceiving a better opportunity/situation for himself/herself. That seems positive to me.

2. The entity brings in a new individual that is as well perceiving a better opportunity/situation for himself/herself. That seems positive to me.

Both entities benefit by having new faces, energy, inspiration and fresh ideas from a set of focused and motivated individuals desiring to make a positive impact. Both individuals benefit being more motivated to achieve and succeed in their new position.

Excellent take 74 ---

[Maddog1956]

But figures from Anthony Calamai, dean of the university's largest college, the College of Arts and Sciences, are even higher. Calamai said that 22 faculty have said they are leaving the college this year alone. That's up from five last year, four in 2011-12, four in 2010-11 and four in 2009-10 -- "from the best we can tell," he said. "As you go further back, we could be missing one or two."

Besides the high cost of turnover and customer dissatisfaction, I would think that if your standard is 4-5 a year leaving and then you have 22, some red flags should go off. It may be due to the economy improving, or other states plowing more into education, but I think it would be a reason to investigate.

It doesn't mean you have a problem, but I can't imagine a company not being concerned with a 500% increase in turnover. Broddie-noell's (hardees) was tickled pink when theirs fell from like 130% (many didn't stay a full year) to around 80%.

[appbanker]

I think this was mentioned before, but do we know how many are due to the program cutting that was announced a few months ago? JCSU is cutting it's School of Education due to lack of students http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/0 ... 3InyUTD-70.

I think another interesting indicator would be how does the APP turnover compare to other universities. If others are seeing the same type of turnover, that would indicate to me that it more for economic reasons. Profs are moving to increase their pay and opportunities.

[Maddog1956]

I think this was mentioned before, but do we know how many are due to the program cutting that was announced a few months ago? JCSU is cutting it's School of Education due to lack of students http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/0 ... 3InyUTD-70.

I think another interesting indicator would be how does the APP turnover compare to other universities. If others are seeing the same type of turnover, that would indicate to me that it more for economic reasons. Profs are moving to increase their pay and opportunities.

I had asked the same thing about the program cuts. I don't think they'd bring up those leaving because of direct cuts, but it could have profs thinking "I'm next". It would be interesting to know if they are mostly going out of state etc.