nc scewing teachers again....

[1ASU78]

You have no idea half of the things that are going on in Raleigh right now also when we stop federal money depending on graduation rates our schools will turn around. NCLB and Common Core are the same thing until we let people fail who can't keep up or don't want to our education system will suffer.im sorry but when a high school teen can cuss a teacher out once a week and miss over 30+ days in a school year and still graduate on time to make graduation rates "look good" you have a problem. So please before you go blaming people for trying to better it the best way they feel how learn about the system. As I said before for 100 years dems controlled and we are near bottom of the nation so I don't think they have the answer either

I am closer to it than you I can bet you that much. Also if I recall no child left behind was a little bush idea. It was stupid then and it is still stupid; that much we can agree on.

Wasn't no child left behind a spin off of "ever child in North Carelina will be able to read" Jim Hunt?

[HeffnerIV]

Okay let me try again. Free access to public education is an American ideal. However we are not all equipped or inclined to take advantage of this wonderful opportunity on equal footing. Figuring out how to serve all while allowing the best to excel is a tough nut that neither party has been able to crack. How about that?

I would agree with you that it's an American Ideal, but public education is not free. I think what you'll find outside of the public sector is that most Americans don't have tenure, and many wonder why anyone should be guaranteed their job. Most guaranteed pensions are certainly becoming extinct, and did a long time ago for us.

I have one and I am in the private sector. We should not be worried about why these public servants who make below competitive wages have good benefits but instead we should be outraged that most of us no longer have them. Why can Apple make 100's of billions of dollars and only pay taxes on a very small portion. They whine about being competitive all the while using slave labor in China to make their products. These greedy pigs could have kept these jobs in Amedica and still made shit loads of money. But they would have to pay a competitive wage and pay taxes. Oh woe is me I might only make 75 billion instead of a hundred. That is what we sbould be outraged about not that my mother who worked in public education for 35 years has a good retirement. Give me a break.

So assuming that Apple broke no laws and paid all taxes due by law, you believe that you have the rights to another person/corporation's property. Is this correct? If so, would I have rights to your property if my appraisal is that you have more than I think you need?

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Okay let me try again. Free access to public education is an American ideal. However we are not all equipped or inclined to take advantage of this wonderful opportunity on equal footing. Figuring out how to serve all while allowing the best to excel is a tough nut that neither party has been able to crack. How about that?

I would agree with you that it's an American Ideal, but public education is not free. I think what you'll find outside of the public sector is that most Americans don't have tenure, and many wonder why anyone should be guaranteed their job. Most guaranteed pensions are certainly becoming extinct, and did a long time ago for us.

I have one and I am in the private sector. We should not be worried about why these public servants who make below competitive wages have good benefits but instead we should be outraged that most of us no longer have them. Why can Apple make 100's of billions of dollars and only pay taxes on a very small portion. They whine about being competitive all the while using slave labor in China to make their products. These greedy pigs could have kept these jobs in Amedica and still made shit loads of money. But they would have to pay a competitive wage and pay taxes. Oh woe is me I might only make 75 billion instead of a hundred. That is what we sbould be outraged about not that my mother who worked in public education for 35 years has a good retirement. Give me a break.

So assuming that Apple broke no laws and paid all taxes due by law, you believe that you have the rights to another person/corporation's property. Is this correct? If so, would I have rights to your property if my appraisal is that you have more than I think you need?

If you spent tons of money to lobby to have laws so slanted in your favor, then the answer is yes.

You act like everyone is sitting around a table and we all get input on how this country is run and decisions are made. Do you have any idea how much money is tossed around by various lobbies?

[HeffnerIV]

Okay let me try again. Free access to public education is an American ideal. However we are not all equipped or inclined to take advantage of this wonderful opportunity on equal footing. Figuring out how to serve all while allowing the best to excel is a tough nut that neither party has been able to crack. How about that?

I would agree with you that it's an American Ideal, but public education is not free. I think what you'll find outside of the public sector is that most Americans don't have tenure, and many wonder why anyone should be guaranteed their job. Most guaranteed pensions are certainly becoming extinct, and did a long time ago for us.

I have one and I am in the private sector. We should not be worried about why these public servants who make below competitive wages have good benefits but instead we should be outraged that most of us no longer have them. Why can Apple make 100's of billions of dollars and only pay taxes on a very small portion. They whine about being competitive all the while using slave labor in China to make their products. These greedy pigs could have kept these jobs in Amedica and still made shit loads of money. But they would have to pay a competitive wage and pay taxes. Oh woe is me I might only make 75 billion instead of a hundred. That is what we sbould be outraged about not that my mother who worked in public education for 35 years has a good retirement. Give me a break.

So assuming that Apple broke no laws and paid all taxes due by law, you believe that you have the rights to another person/corporation's property. Is this correct? If so, would I have rights to your property if my appraisal is that you have more than I think you need?

If you spent tons of money to lobby to have laws so slanted in your favor, then the answer is yes.

You act like everyone is sitting around a table and we all get input on how this country is run and decisions are made. Do you have any idea how much money is tossed around by various lobbies?

I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is too much $ influence in our federal government! But I don't blame Apple, et al, for playing the game well. I blame our opportunist politicians for making it a game. This, along with the garbage out of the IRS, is more reason for a fair or flat tax- no deductions.

[9Steelman]

90% of all teachers are excellent teachers, great mentors, great friends, impact children as much as anyone, yet we as a state and a country have their value to society as a low level in relationship to compensation. We may have to cut other things in order to increase pay, but what could be more valuable than teachers with passion and motivation toward students. I would have no problem with a 1% sales tax increase if I knew that 100% would go to increase elementary and high school teachers over and beyond current budget. By the way I taught and coached 5 years and then left for the business world. Not bragging but I for one should have been a teacher/coach for my entire career. PAY TEACHERS MORE NOW is my war cry!!!

[kiddbrewer]

90% of all teachers are excellent teachers, great mentors, great friends, impact children as much as anyone, yet we as a state and a country have their value to society as a low level in relationship to compensation. We may have to cut other things in order to increase pay, but what could be more valuable than teachers with passion and motivation toward students. I would have no problem with a 1% sales tax increase if I knew that 100% would go to increase elementary and high school teachers over and beyond current budget. By the way I taught and coached 5 years and then left for the business world. Not bragging but I for one should have been a teacher/coach for my entire career. PAY TEACHERS MORE NOW is my war cry!!!

I can't agree more. I am a teacher and I wouldn't mind a small tax increase knowing that 100% of the funds go to not only the teachers, but to help fund education like texts and teacher assistants and not central office administrators. I'm working with books that we got 2 curriculum alignments ago. Now that NC has gone to the Common Core, none of the books are aligned with the Common Core. Google has been my best friend, along with 2-3 old texts per class, when I am planning my lessons.

[wb247]

I can't agree more. I am a teacher and I wouldn't mind a small tax increase knowing that 100% of the funds go to not only the teachers, but to help fund education like texts and teacher assistants and not central office administrators. I'm working with books that we got 2 curriculum alignments ago. Now that NC has gone to the Common Core, none of the books are aligned with the Common Core. Google has been my best friend, along with 2-3 old texts per class, when I am planning my lessons.

Between subscriptions and google, there's certainly enough information on the internet that we could consider getting out of the money pit that is "the textbook game," at least in some classes. Would the lobbyists allow it?

[3rd]

Central office salaries go up as we lay off teachers

[bcoach]

Here is the real problem in my humble opinion. MONEY. But not the way you think. People think that the answer to improved education is to throw money at it. Folks that has been tried and it does not work. money is not the answer. Sure the teachers should make more but that will not solve the problem UNLESS you are telling me they are holding back now and not giving their best because of wages. I don't think that is the case. Teachers deserve more money because it is the right thing not because it will improve education. We all know what the real problems are. Discipline, babysitting, mandates by folks who either could not make it in the classroom or never were in the classroom, bloated central offices, state education boards and the federal government. You can't throw money at it and expect the problem to be solved. Teacher salaries and improved education are just two different subjects with separate solutions. Salaries need to be improved but that is the simple one. Improving education in this country is a whole different deal.

[Appsolutely]

"...UNLESS you are telling me they are holding back now and not giving their best because of wages."

No, what some of us are telling you is that many good teachers leave the classroom because of teacher pay. Most of the those who are there give it all they have. It's the ones who leave or never go into teaching in the first place that should be of concern. I find it very interesting that most people believe that "you get what you pay for," except when it comes to teaching. Teachers get plenty of lip service ("our children are our future," etc.) but very little else.

That's the conclusion I came to after 13 years in the classroom. And that's why I left.

[bcoach]

"...UNLESS you are telling me they are holding back now and not giving their best because of wages."

No, what some of us are telling you is that many good teachers leave the classroom because of teacher pay. Most of the those who are there give it all they have. It's the ones who leave or never go into teaching in the first place that should be of concern. I find it very interesting that most people believe that "you get what you pay for," except when it comes to teaching. Teachers get plenty of lip service ("our children are our future, etc.") but very little else.

That's the conclusion I came to after 13 years in the classroom. And that's why I left.

I think you forgot the "I don't think that is the case" part of my statement. I am willing to take your word that you were a very good teacher but our education system is not in the shape it is in because you left. I believe it is because you were not able to give all you had because of the problems I pointed out and there are hundreds more that I am not even aware of. I think you and all these that are still teaching give all they are able to give under the constraints they must operate under. Raises will not help that. Teachers should get raises because they deserve, which they do, not because it will improve education. If we are saying that the problem is that the good ones never started teaching or that they have left teaching, then we are saying those that are still teaching are subpar and I just refuse to believe that. Again, in my opinion it is just two separate issues. I believe we have a majority of really good teachers but they are operating in handcuffs.

[Appsolutely]

"...UNLESS you are telling me they are holding back now and not giving their best because of wages."

No, what some of us are telling you is that many good teachers leave the classroom because of teacher pay. Most of the those who are there give it all they have. It's the ones who leave or never go into teaching in the first place that should be of concern. I find it very interesting that most people believe that "you get what you pay for," except when it comes to teaching. Teachers get plenty of lip service ("our children are our future, etc.") but very little else.

That's the conclusion I came to after 13 years in the classroom. And that's why I left.

I think you forgot the "I don't think that is the case" part of my statement. I am willing to take your word that you were a very good teacher but our education system is not in the shape it is in because you left. I believe it is because you were not able to give all you had because of the problems I pointed out and there are hundreds more that I am not even aware of. I think you and all these that are still teaching give all they are able to give under the constraints they must operate under. Raises will not help that. Teachers should get raises because they deserve, which they do, not because it will improve education. If we are saying that the problem is that the good ones never started teaching or that they have left teaching, then we are saying those that are still teaching are subpar and I just refuse to believe that. Again, in my opinion it is just two separate issues. I believe we have a majority of really good teachers but they are operating in handcuffs.

Agree that the vast majority of teachers don't "slack off" because of the pay. I also agree that pay is not the only problem. Probably a more serious problem is the lowering of expectations when it comes to student achievement/behavior and parental accountability. That's the other reason why I and many others have left the classroom. It's too bad that standardized testing is being used to measure student acheivement and teacher competence.

[bcoach]

"...UNLESS you are telling me they are holding back now and not giving their best because of wages."

No, what some of us are telling you is that many good teachers leave the classroom because of teacher pay. Most of the those who are there give it all they have. It's the ones who leave or never go into teaching in the first place that should be of concern. I find it very interesting that most people believe that "you get what you pay for," except when it comes to teaching. Teachers get plenty of lip service ("our children are our future, etc.") but very little else.

That's the conclusion I came to after 13 years in the classroom. And that's why I left.

I think you forgot the "I don't think that is the case" part of my statement. I am willing to take your word that you were a very good teacher but our education system is not in the shape it is in because you left. I believe it is because you were not able to give all you had because of the problems I pointed out and there are hundreds more that I am not even aware of. I think you and all these that are still teaching give all they are able to give under the constraints they must operate under. Raises will not help that. Teachers should get raises because they deserve, which they do, not because it will improve education. If we are saying that the problem is that the good ones never started teaching or that they have left teaching, then we are saying those that are still teaching are subpar and I just refuse to believe that. Again, in my opinion it is just two separate issues. I believe we have a majority of really good teachers but they are operating in handcuffs.

Agree that the vast majority of teachers don't "slack off" because of the pay. I also agree that pay is not the only problem. Probably a more serious problem is the lowering of expectations when it comes to student achievement/behavior and parental accountability. That's the other reason why I and many others have left the classroom. It's too bad that standardized testing is being used to measure student acheivement and teacher competence.

That is for sure. I have a daughter who left teaching. In here case the money was not the final straw although it was a thorn in the side. It was the system that drove her away. I think she will go back (making her daddy very proud) but it will probably be to a private school where she will be allowed to more fully use her talents.
I fully understand your point and am sorry the system lost you. I wish they would have paid you. I just wish we could solve both problems. I wish that the government would get the heck out of the way and let professionals take us back to the days of education, not babysitting. I wish we placed as high a value on teachers, police , and firefighters, as we do on football and basketball players, but we don't. Hopefully one day we will have had enough and will work to solve both problems.

[StumpyCulbreath]

After the obvious blight of standardized testing, the next biggest problem, at least at the high school level is block scheduling. If you want to see where everything went all to hell, just look at when block scheduling forced every class to be no more than a survey class. I can never remember money being thrown at the problem in North Carolina. Funding has always been substandard.

[asutrnr81]

Probably none of you will look at this video. It is 51 minutes long. It should be mandatory prior to any vote in the NC legislature this session.

http://blog.mrmeyer.com/?p=17047
Uri Treisman’s Magnificent Speech On Equity, Race, And The Opportunity To Learn

The last thing I hope I can say about this is:
Nearly all of the newest research from the respected research universities say the two critical predictors of student success in the classroom are:

An Involved Parent

and

Poverty
(The facts are that our top ten percent are outperforming the rest of the world pretty handily). ...and nearly every country we are compared to does not even try to educate EVERYONE to the same standard/level.

Race, which FOREVER has been the "gap" predictor is no longer thought to be the gatekeeper.

moeller: NC is a right to work state...there is NO teacher union...the NCAE is a paper tiger....I am hopeful however that enough of us are finally getting mad enough to act at the polls the next time.

[hapapp]

Probably none of you will look at this video. It is 51 minutes long. It should be mandatory prior to any vote in the NC legislature this session.

http://blog.mrmeyer.com/?p=17047
Uri Treisman’s Magnificent Speech On Equity, Race, And The Opportunity To Learn

The last thing I hope I can say about this is:
Nearly all of the newest research from the respected research universities say the two critical predictors of student success in the classroom are:

An Involved Parent

and

Poverty
(The facts are that our top ten percent are outperforming the rest of the world pretty handily). ...and nearly every country we are compared to does not even try to educate EVERYONE to the same standard/level.

Race, which FOREVER has been the "gap" predictor is no longer thought to be the gatekeeper.

moeller: NC is a right to work state...there is NO teacher union...the NCAE is a paper tiger....I am hopeful however that enough of us are finally getting mad enough to act at the polls the next time.

Anyone who has been in the classroom (I was for 35 years) knows of what you speak.

[kiddbrewer]

...and nearly every country we are compared to does not even try to educate EVERYONE to the same standard/level.

Our education system is based on the premise that every student should go to college, whether it's a community college, then transfer to a 4 year, or straight up four year college/university . We educate all of our children and try to prepare them for college, whether or not the child wants to go. There are many students that want to be farmers (their family has farmed the land for generations and he/she wants to follow in their families footsteps), auto mechanics, hair stylists, military, etc.... But yet, our system will disregard their personal choices and force them to take classes they will never need, take the SAT, ACT, and other standardized national tests they will never need.

What NC needs is a stronger vocational system. Money is taken from vocational instruction and pumped into newly created educational ploys (I call them gimmicks) that supposedly guarantees success.

I hate to say this, but let's test our kids early on and see what interests them. These aptitude tests are around. They can be accurate as that child progresses through the educational system. If we can get students in tracks that interest them, then maybe we won't have as many issues as discipline, absences, failures, and drop outs, just to name a few. We can't get them all, but I believe we can get a lot more than we are getting now. I'm a former teacher in Guilford County and I have very few good things to say about them, but there is one good thing that Guilford County does well, whether they still do it or not I don't know. If a student graduates with a certain course load, then that student automatically gets a two year scholarship to GTCC in some sort of vocational training. I've been out of the system for a few years now so I don't know if this is still common practice. But the program takes the money equation out of the picture and does allow a a student who lives in poverty the ability to get a two year education from a community college

Very possibly too, if we can get some of these students into tracks that have some sort of history with their family, we can increase the amount of parent involvement that is needed to help their child be more successful. I hate to say this, but I have seen two kinds of parent involvement in my 18 years in the classroom. The parent that is not involved at all and the parent that enables their child that can do no wrong.

Sorry, my rant is over.

[Kgfish]

My wife is a teacher w/o a Masters degree. She is regularly among the highest evaluation teachers within the system for her grade level. Several of her peers with advanced degrees do not receive high marks. A Masters does not translate into a better classroom teacher, only a higher cost for the taxpayers of NC.

[StumpyCulbreath]

Yea, peopel wit masterz degreez are pretty stoopid defernately a drag on the tacks

[TheMoody1]

Yea, peopel wit masterz degreez are pretty stoopid defernately a drag on the tacks

The extra pay government workers get for masters degrees is what keeps The University of Phoenix in business.