nc scewing teachers again....

[hapapp]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

[bcoach]

If a teacher gets a masters in something related to their field and it improves their performance then they deserve more money. It should be looked at as a way to improve your performance to then get more money, not as an automatic qualifier. Then of course we get into how do you evaluate which is not done in any sensible way today. Boy, talk about a system that needs to be fixed.

[appst89]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

No, but what is absurd is to automatically pay them more just because they completed a post-graduate degree. If their performance improves then, by all means, pay them more, but just to increase salary because somone added two more letter to their resume, that is truly absurd. And that doesn't just apply to educators.

[Rekdiver]

how about increasing teacher pay......period. I make 4 times what a teacher makes. It's absurd that a teacher makes so little. In the private sector many companies will pay for education that is relevant to the job...like an MBA. To take away this small stipend is moronic.

[JCline0429]

They would be sending a horrible message by cutting supplements for masters degrees- Furthering your education is great- unless you are an educator; then it is of no value to you.
This will have terrible implications for our entire PK-16 system.
North Carolina's strategy, based on Gormanesque bogus quasi "research" is to hire teachers at a decent starting wage, use them for 3-4 years, then when it is time that should be paid as professionals, make their compensation so undesirable they will leave, and then bring in more suckers to replace them. Sort of like Teach for America- then get the hell out and make money. That way, they don't have to pay for salary step increases, longevity, etc...
Now, the patheticly weak NCAE will howl and protest and then bend over.

Tragic that this is even being considered.

One thing about it is that the Master's is required for certain teachers like library/media specialists, but they won't get paid on it.
As far as the NCAE is concerned, one of the problems is that the NCAE has almost exclusively backed the Democrats for decades and now the revnge is coming now that Republicans control the governor's office and the House and Senate. What would you expect the NCAE to be able to do?

[JCline0429]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

No, but what is absurd is to automatically pay them more just because they completed a post-graduate degree. If their performance improves then, by all means, pay them more, but just to increase salary because somone added two more letter to their resume, that is truly absurd. And that doesn't just apply to educators.

How would you rate teachers? Test scores? The teacher who has the better academic students will fare better. Too, merit pay would make teachers work against each other. A teacher who has 2/3 Hispanic students should not be pitted against teachers who have little numbers of minority students. In the school my 7 year old attends, the white kids are in the minority compared to Hispanics.Too, some teachers have kids with various academic disabilities... ADD, BEH, not to mention kids with mild degrees of Down's Syndrome and low IQ.. How do you rate teachers of those kids?
In your job with the State of Virginia ( I seem to recall), how is your salary determined? Do you get more pay each year based on years of service? Do you get paid more for having certain degrees, or is a bachelor's all you need?

[JCline0429]

how about increasing teacher pay......period. I make 4 times what a teacher makes. It's absurd that a teacher makes so little. In the private sector many companies will pay for education that is relevant to the job...like an MBA. To take away this small stipend is moronic.

McCrory is in favor of a teacher pay raises and COLA for retirees...salaries have been frozen for a certain number of years.

[JCline0429]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

LOL I get your sarcasm, I hope.

[JCline0429]

You have no idea half of the things that are going on in Raleigh right now also when we stop federal money depending on graduation rates our schools will turn around. NCLB and Common Core are the same thing until we let people fail who can't keep up or don't want to our education system will suffer.im sorry but when a high school teen can cuss a teacher out once a week and miss over 30+ days in a school year and still graduate on time to make graduation rates "look good" you have a problem. So please before you go blaming people for trying to better it the best way they feel how learn about the system. As I said before for 100 years dems controlled and we are near bottom of the nation so I don't think they have the answer either

I am closer to it than you I can bet you that much. Also if I recall no child left behind was a little bush idea. It was stupid then and it is still stupid; that much we can agree on.

Wasn't no child left behind a spin off of "ever child in North Carelina will be able to read" Jim Hunt?

It has it precent in Public Law 92-142 (I believe it was called) going all the way back to the mid 70's or so.
Jim Hunt also said "according to their ability."

[JCline0429]

And this is the danger of voting straight ticket and allowing any single party full control.

Part of the problem that got Republicans elected was the backlash against Obama and his policies.

[JCline0429]

after reading this article again, it seems that the state is "stabbing the teachers in the back", but the teachers handed them the knife. By actually sending money back in the form of revisons, they have given the state the excuse they needed to make cuts, basically saying the schools are not spending the money we are giving them, therefore we are justified making cuts. You guys are right about teachers who have masters, whats the point of even getting one, if you are going to be paid on the same payscale as a teacher with just a BS degree.

How are teachers responsible for sending money back. Those decisions are made by local elected school boards and school administration..not teachers.

[JCline0429]

The school systems can not budget to save money this year without losing funding for the next year. This is main problem. And your exactly right I went to prom back in the day with a German girl. In 8th grade they had to take a test and depending on how they did decided if they went 1.into work force 2.went to high school 3. Went to high school then college. This is how many countries do it we educate everyone very tough task to educate everyone and yet still let the best excel. And also at some point the individual counties have some blame here

The idea of tracking has been tried before,and the schools were subjected to massive law suits because some kids were tracked into vocational programs and when they wanted to go to college, they didn't have the right courses.

[JCline0429]

I can't agree more. I am a teacher and I wouldn't mind a small tax increase knowing that 100% of the funds go to not only the teachers, but to help fund education like texts and teacher assistants and not central office administrators. I'm working with books that we got 2 curriculum alignments ago. Now that NC has gone to the Common Core, none of the books are aligned with the Common Core. Google has been my best friend, along with 2-3 old texts per class, when I am planning my lessons.

Between subscriptions and google, there's certainly enough information on the internet that we could consider getting out of the money pit that is "the textbook game," at least in some classes. Would the lobbyists allow it?

All schools do not have the resources to have computer time for every kid or teacher. Heck, down East many don't even have DSL. Operating copy machines can be as expensive as buying textbooks or even moreso. In most schools now, the teachers have a code they must enter each time they use the copy machine and when they run out of their quota, guess what? they can make no more copies.

[JCline0429]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that programs like Early College and Charter Schools take some of the brighter students out of the public school classrooms. What galls me is that last year schools took massive cuts in spending and yet the legislature took the cap off of Charter Schools and they are popping up everywhere. For the most part Charter Schools are private schools financed with tax money and many are segregated because so many poor black kids' parents can not afford the transportation to get their kids to school. There maybe some charter schools who furnish transportation, but I haven't found one yet.

[appst89]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

No, but what is absurd is to automatically pay them more just because they completed a post-graduate degree. If their performance improves then, by all means, pay them more, but just to increase salary because somone added two more letter to their resume, that is truly absurd. And that doesn't just apply to educators.

How would you rate teachers? Test scores? The teacher who has the better academic students will fare better. Too, merit pay would make teachers work against each other. A teacher who has 2/3 Hispanic students should not be pitted against teachers who have little numbers of minority students. In the school my 7 year old attends, the white kids are in the minority compared to Hispanics.Too, some teachers have kids with various academic disabilities... ADD, BEH, not to mention kids with mild degrees of Down's Syndrome and low IQ.. How do you rate teachers of those kids?
In your job with the State of Virginia ( I seem to recall), how is your salary determined? Do you get more pay each year based on years of service? Do you get paid more for having certain degrees, or is a bachelor's all you need?

I don't know the exact way to rate teachers, but there has to be a way to do it. I am in favor of paying people who perform, not paying them just because they got an advanced degree. And that doesn't just apply to education. Some of the biggest idiots I ever enckuntered in the corporate world were those with MBAs who were making six figures just because they had an MBA.

Salaries for Commonwealth of Virginia employees are set by the position. There have been no raises for state employees in seven years. This year, there is a 2% across the board raise for all state employees. However, there is no provision for performance raises, which I think is just wrong. It removes all incentive for people to perform well when they know they are getting paid the same as the guy who sleeps half the day. I like my job, but I have some major issues with the way the state has removed the incentive to do well and has made it all but impossible to fire the ones who are just taking up space.

[hapapp]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

No, but what is absurd is to automatically pay them more just because they completed a post-graduate degree. If their performance improves then, by all means, pay them more, but just to increase salary because somone added two more letter to their resume, that is truly absurd. And that doesn't just apply to educators.

How would you rate teachers? Test scores? The teacher who has the better academic students will fare better. Too, merit pay would make teachers work against each other. A teacher who has 2/3 Hispanic students should not be pitted against teachers who have little numbers of minority students. In the school my 7 year old attends, the white kids are in the minority compared to Hispanics.Too, some teachers have kids with various academic disabilities... ADD, BEH, not to mention kids with mild degrees of Down's Syndrome and low IQ.. How do you rate teachers of those kids?
In your job with the State of Virginia ( I seem to recall), how is your salary determined? Do you get more pay each year based on years of service? Do you get paid more for having certain degrees, or is a bachelor's all you need?

In Virginia each locality/school division sets its own salary scale. As far as I am aware, they are all based on years experience and educational attainment. I have been retired three years but the division I taught in has not had a raise in 5 years. Teacher evaluation used to be based on classroom observation. Now, the state is moving more towards putting a student test score component to the process. Hopefully, we will reach the point where we get over our testing obsession.

[JCline0429]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

No, but what is absurd is to automatically pay them more just because they completed a post-graduate degree. If their performance improves then, by all means, pay them more, but just to increase salary because somone added two more letter to their resume, that is truly absurd. And that doesn't just apply to educators.

How would you rate teachers? Test scores? The teacher who has the better academic students will fare better. Too, merit pay would make teachers work against each other. A teacher who has 2/3 Hispanic students should not be pitted against teachers who have little numbers of minority students. In the school my 7 year old attends, the white kids are in the minority compared to Hispanics.Too, some teachers have kids with various academic disabilities... ADD, BEH, not to mention kids with mild degrees of Down's Syndrome and low IQ.. How do you rate teachers of those kids?
In your job with the State of Virginia ( I seem to recall), how is your salary determined? Do you get more pay each year based on years of service? Do you get paid more for having certain degrees, or is a bachelor's all you need?

In Virginia each locality/school division sets its own salary scale. As far as I am aware, they are all based on years experience and educational attainment. I have been retired three years but the division I taught in has not had a raise in 5 years. Teacher evaluation used to be based on classroom observation. Now, the state is moving more towards putting a student test score component to the process. Hopefully, we will reach the point where we get over our testing obsession.

How in the world can test scores measure a teacher's performance? How does a principal with 80 teachers evaluate each teacher. The answer is of course allowing assistant principals, curriculum coordinators, etc. do the evaluations. Sounds like one must get the right evaluator to evaluate oneself and one there's been no conflict with. It's just too arbitrary to suit my taste. In industry, it can be measured with how many widgets one produces or the amount of sales that are produced, etc.
BTW, I was addressing my question to 89 who I believe works for the DOC in Virginia.

[bcoach]

Yep, it is absurd to encourage educators to further their education.

No, but what is absurd is to automatically pay them more just because they completed a post-graduate degree. If their performance improves then, by all means, pay them more, but just to increase salary because somone added two more letter to their resume, that is truly absurd. And that doesn't just apply to educators.

How would you rate teachers? Test scores? The teacher who has the better academic students will fare better. Too, merit pay would make teachers work against each other. A teacher who has 2/3 Hispanic students should not be pitted against teachers who have little numbers of minority students. In the school my 7 year old attends, the white kids are in the minority compared to Hispanics.Too, some teachers have kids with various academic disabilities... ADD, BEH, not to mention kids with mild degrees of Down's Syndrome and low IQ.. How do you rate teachers of those kids?
In your job with the State of Virginia ( I seem to recall), how is your salary determined? Do you get more pay each year based on years of service? Do you get paid more for having certain degrees, or is a bachelor's all you need?

In Virginia each locality/school division sets its own salary scale. As far as I am aware, they are all based on years experience and educational attainment. I have been retired three years but the division I taught in has not had a raise in 5 years. Teacher evaluation used to be based on classroom observation. Now, the state is moving more towards putting a student test score component to the process. Hopefully, we will reach the point where we get over our testing obsession.

How in the world can test scores measure a teacher's performance? How does a principal with 80 teachers evaluate each teacher. The answer is of course allowing assistant principals, curriculum coordinators, etc. do the evaluations. Sounds like one must get the right evaluator to evaluate oneself and one there's been no conflict with. It's just too arbitrary to suit my taste. In industry, it can be measured with how many widgets one produces or the amount of sales that are produced, etc.
BTW, I was addressing my question to 89 who I believe works for the DOC in Virginia.

classroom evaluation is the only legitimate way to decide on raises. it seems funny to me that nothing in government can be done the way it is in the private sector. Why should an excellent teacher not make more that one who has 10 more years seniority and is coasting. All the problems you spell out exist in the private sector, we have bosses who we may have had a conflict with. There are more workers in the private sector who do not sell or build widgets and they all seem to get evaluated. I love teachers but I am going to tell you something. You do not help your cause by wanting to be special and protected when it comes to salary. You deserve more but many of you deserve more than others. Evaluation in the classroom by your manager is the only correct way to get there. You need to get the knuckleheaded public on your side. Talking about tenure and automatic raises is not the way to get there. The public has the money, you just need to make your case. You need to convince the public that you are worth the price of about 1 1/2 football tickets in tax increase per year. Don't talk about how long it has been since you had a raise because a lot of them have not had a raise in the same time frame. Sell performance evaluation by your manager to the public and they will take care of the politicians.

[JCline0429]

I preface this post with the fact that I am retired, thus I don't ask for raises.

bcoach: just tell me upon what criteria a teacher should be evaluated.

First of all NC doesn't have tenure anymore. It is called career status and all tenure means is that a teacher cannot be fired without a cause. An non-tenured teacher can be fired without giving a reason in the first three years. My first grade teacher, when I was six, was fired in order to make room for a new principal's wife when the new principal was coming in.
If a principal can't find a reason, then a teacher should not be fired.

Grounds for dismissal

Under current law, career status, or tenured, teachers can be dismissed for the following reasons:
• Inadequate performance. • Immorality. • Insubordination. • Neglect of duty. • Physical or mental incapacity. • Habitual or excessive use of alcohol or nonmedical use of a controlled substance. • Conviction of a felony or a crime involving moral turpitude. • Advocating the overthrow of the government of the United States or of the state of North Carolina by force, violence, or other unlawful means. • Failure to fulfill the duties and responsibilities imposed upon teachers or school administrators by the General Statutes of this state. • Failure to comply with such reasonable requirements as the board may prescribe. • Any cause that constitutes grounds for the revocation of the career teacher’s teaching license. • A justifiable decrease in the number of positions due to district reorganization, decreased enrollment or decreased funding. • Failure to maintain his or her license in a current status. • Failure to repay money owed to the state. • Providing false information or knowingly omitting a material fact on an application for employment.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/03/30/ ... rylink=cpy

[3rd]

The problem is in central offices and school boards. If these people actually cared about the teachers and students learning their would not be a problem, my former school system just bought lap tops for all kids...to bad they didn't have the infrastructure to support all those lap tops so they crash every other day. Central office employees look out for themselves and their friends, even if you have 10-year and the principal doesn't like you, then you will be put on action plan. My former school system hired a superintendent that after we hired him, the teachers from the county he was leaving wrote our local paper thanking us for taking him. Found out one of the board members has a place at the beach next to him. Welcome to local politics, a lot of this is not on the teachers its about 2 or 3 levels above them and its not at the party in control. If you give them more money 9 times out of 10 they will misspend that money.