Acceptance Letter

[Maddog1956]

Rigor and challenge vary by class, by instructor, by each high school, and etc. How do colleges equally measure among candidates?

"they" unweight the GPA!

How do "they" compare kids with unweighted 4.0s? or less?

I'll stand by my original statement of leveling the playing field with the entrance exams when comparing students. Not all high schools are created equally.

why are involved students with top grades along with entrance exam scores above a certain number invited to apply for the prestigious scholarships and those students with only the top grades not invited?

Even within certain schools there are different "classes" many urban schools have a "school within a school". One economic group takes mostly college prep and the other takes easy classes. The school can be rated very high but for an individual student the grades mean really nothing.

I'm not against using the SAT even if it doesn't tell if a student is necessarily going to attend classes, party all night or is a hard worker, but I would just like it stated as such. What's wrong in stating 90% of our criteria is SAT (for example). The only problem (and the reason for keeping it cloudy) is that it would eliminate most of the admissions office and then they would have to explain the exceptions.

[Black Saturday]

Surely you aren't suggesting admissions would be creating their self worth? LOL!

[Rekdiver]

Watch the movie Admissions.............My wife is a HS Guidance Counselor and Admissions Depts do tout the SAT numbers as a measure against other schools.........That movie is closer than you might imagine. I will say that App's Admissions dept has gotten better in the past couple of years with the new Head. And believe it or not UNC communicates the best with my wife and her peers of any school she has worked with in the last 20 years.

[App74]

As much as I dislike it, the SAT is the barometer. There are some 13,000 applicants and nine admission counselors. Applicants are going to be filtered on some criteria and the SAT is it. If an applicant does not have a good SAT score, grades won't matter. They are not going to get a look. That's my opinion. Why? I'm glad you asked.

My daughter was seventh in her high school class, top grades, extra curricular activities, twelve hours of college credit, six alumni family members, female student of the year, etc. A wide open door to App right? Not so fast. She had an "OK" SAT. She called me from school one day saying a classmate had received her acceptance letter. This classmate was well down the rankings but she was awarded "early admission". Why? She had a better SAT score. I promptly called admissions and inquired. I was told that early admission was being granted to the top 10% of applicants.

I was ready to send her to Wake Forest. Wake does not use SAT scores.

I sent two letters. The first was telling them that the early admission program was a stupid idea. If App is still doing that, it is still a stupid idea. Whomever came up with that needs to take the SAT.

The second letter was a bit of a plea to reconsider her application. Fortunately, we had just received her ACT score. She rocked the ACT, knocked it out. I included an "unofficial" copy of the ACT score. She was accepted a couple of weeks later.

I believe the high ACT score is what saved her. It still enrages me that she almost missed admission to App because of the SAT. By the way, my daughter is now a junior majoring in chemistry. She had a 4.0 last semester. So, the SAT can kiss my ***!

Black Saturday is correct. Parents must help prospective students with preparation. Navigate the SAT abyss with classes on how to take the SAT.

Sorry for the vent.

[asutrnr81]

Rigor and challenge vary by class, by instructor, by each high school, and etc. How do colleges equally measure among candidates?

"they" unweight the GPA!

How do "they" compare kids with unweighted 4.0s? or less?

I'll stand by my original statement of leveling the playing field with the entrance exams when comparing students. Not all high schools are created equally.

why are involved students with top grades along with entrance exam scores above a certain number invited to apply for the prestigious scholarships and those students with only the top grades not invited?

Even within certain schools there are different "classes" many urban schools have a "school within a school". One economic group takes mostly college prep and the other takes easy classes. The school can be rated very high but for an individual student the grades mean really nothing.

I'm not against using the SAT even if it doesn't tell if a student is necessarily going to attend classes, party all night or is a hard worker, but I would just like it stated as such. What's wrong in stating 90% of our criteria is SAT (for example). The only problem (and the reason for keeping it cloudy) is that it would eliminate most of the admissions office and then they would have to explain the exceptions.

I do not have "the" checklist but I am close enough to the process at several schools to speak to this.

I can promise you it is a multifaceted filter. What "counts" more from one might not mean as much for the other.

The SAT would be a good first filter for the office. Those high SAT's are then screened for honors and AP classes with an UNWEIGHTED GPA.

Why unwweighted: Because there is SOOOOOO much difference between an AP course at one school to another. And it levels the playing field.

Weighted GPA might be another filter especially for those with 5.0+ because it shows that the kids took the toughest classes they could.

A third filter would be extra-curriculars. Trust me a Gold award, Eagle Scout, "missionary work" All-State rankings in academic competitions, holding office in a club or organization at the school or community, and the like will influence the process.

Another filter would be legacy, I am sure giving a high level influences, but for most it in not even on the table.

Another filter and maybe the most important is advocacy. Self, Parent and others. If you do not get what you want or believe is right or have new information. Call, write, etc. One of the MOST common errors is incomplete applications. Something is missing. Lately I have had to "resubmit" electronic letters etc. (At many universities). A piece of advice is a personalize letter of recommendation, giving the person writing it your resume, etc. will be best.....and personalized is not changing the name at the top and the person recommending filling in blanks. Find someone who will be genuine. Your guidance counselor may have to write 75...it is hard to be personal for 75 people if 15 of them are applying to the same school.

As much as I dislike it, the SAT is the barometer. There are some 13,000 applicants and nine admission counselors.

I sent two letters. The first was telling them that the early admission program was a stupid idea. If App is still doing that, it is still a stupid idea. Whomever came up with that needs to take the SAT.

The second letter was a bit of a plea to reconsider her application. Fortunately, we had just received her ACT score. She rocked the ACT, knocked it out. I included an "unofficial" copy of the ACT score. She was accepted a couple of weeks later.

Black Saturday is correct. Parents must help prospective students with preparation. Navigate the SAT abyss with classes on how to take the SAT.

In order for APP to be competitive they HAVE to have the early admissions piece and they WILL treat those kids and families differently! They also have to have a filter and the SAT/ACT is the ONLY really controlled element that they have. (I hate the SAT) But it is a controlled element that fits on a bell curve well because with 13,000 + applications you have to "rank" the applicants some way.

Regardless of where a university starts there has to be filters that the applications go through. There just has to be. Where one starts will probably in the end lead to the same conclusion! ....and it IS a multifaceted view....and "they" miss some!

[WVAPPeer]

App74 says
"My daughter was seventh in her high school class, top grades, extra curricular activities, twelve hours of college credit, six alumni family members, female student of the year, etc. A wide open door to App right? Not so fast. She had an "OK" SAT. She called me from school one day saying a classmate had received her acceptance letter. This classmate was well down the rankings but she was awarded "early admission". Why? She had a better SAT score. I promptly called admissions and inquired. I was told that early admission was being granted to the top 10% of applicants."

74 - that is just crazy - Hell, our daughter wouldn't be accepted now - she had no where the level of academic achievement as yours - she was National Honor Society, very good grades but no where near top 10 - she did have outstanding extracurricular achievements but that doesn't seem to matter these days - My wife and I understand the importance of SATs as we were both in the classroom for years but once a school makes that the clear definer with very little attention paid to all the other aspects then they are going to miss a ton of great talent ---

[AppState89]

I got mine in 1985....oh...it's 2014...LOL..

Congrats to you guys on your children going to App!!! It's going to be h"APPY" days ahead...

Go Apps!!

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I have not had a chance to keep up with the very thread I started. But I have skimmed the last few posts.

I have one question to throw out. How much does one's proposed major play a part in all of this?

I imagine there are numbers out there that support different minimums on standardized tests for different majors for those students to be successful at said major.

In addition to that is the question of how many perspective students are looking to a particular major. I came out of a smaller dept at App, though I am sure not the smallest. The App Physics dept was graduating about a dozen majors a year, and has since grown. If 24 apply for the various Physics programs but there are really only resources for 18 a year then some may not get in. If only 12 apply any given year the chances of all 12 being accepted are much higher I would assume, as long as some general App standards are met. The way majors change for so many students I don't know how much this model could or should be used, but I can't help but think a struggling dept that is not having large numbers of graduates might get a little boost to help enrollment if applicants head in that direction. And I could see some applicants turned away in a dept is booming.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I believe the high ACT score is what saved her. It still enrages me that she almost missed admission to App because of the SAT. By the way, my daughter is now a junior majoring in chemistry. She had a 4.0 last semester. So, the SAT can kiss my ***!

Black Saturday is correct. Parents must help prospective students with preparation. Navigate the SAT abyss with classes on how to take the SAT.

Sorry for the vent.

A 4.0 as a junior in Chem is very impressive. App's Chem dept is excellent and that is no easy task to pull off at the junior level. Was PChem involved in any of those courses last semester? I did not have to go past Organic Chem I to get the hours I needed from the Department. I still get cold shivers thinking about that class.

[App74]

I believe the high ACT score is what saved her. It still enrages me that she almost missed admission to App because of the SAT. By the way, my daughter is now a junior majoring in chemistry. She had a 4.0 last semester. So, the SAT can kiss my ***!

Black Saturday is correct. Parents must help prospective students with preparation. Navigate the SAT abyss with classes on how to take the SAT.

Sorry for the vent.

A 4.0 as a junior in Chem is very impressive. App's Chem dept is excellent and that is no easy task to pull off at the junior level. Was PChem involved in any of those courses last semester? I did not have to go past Organic Chem I to get the hours I needed from the Department. I still get cold shivers thinking about that class.

Scheduling issues were such that she could only muster 12 hours last semester, one class being British Lit (ugh). She couldn't work her schedule to get PChem. She'll have PChem I and II next year. I'm sure you know getting schedules to work in science majors requiring labs is a challenge further complicated in that none of these classes are offered in the summer. She will likely need an extra semester to complete the major. I'm very proud of her. She is focused and determined. Can't measure that with an SAT.

[asutrnr81]

I have not had a chance to keep up with the very thread I started. But I have skimmed the last few posts.

I have one question to throw out. How much does one's proposed major play a part in all of this?

I imagine there are numbers out there that support different minimums on standardized tests for different majors for those students to be successful at said major.

Great point. Not so much a certain score equals certain acceptance but you can't let in 1000 business majors and no music students just because the business applicants SAT's are higher than the Music applicants.

There has to be a balance of acceptances across the colleges!

[appbio91]

As much as I dislike it, the SAT is the barometer. There are some 13,000 applicants and nine admission counselors. Applicants are going to be filtered on some criteria and the SAT is it. If an applicant does not have a good SAT score, grades won't matter. They are not going to get a look. That's my opinion. Why? I'm glad you asked.

My daughter was seventh in her high school class, top grades, extra curricular activities, twelve hours of college credit, six alumni family members, female student of the year, etc. A wide open door to App right? Not so fast. She had an "OK" SAT. She called me from school one day saying a classmate had received her acceptance letter. This classmate was well down the rankings but she was awarded "early admission". Why? She had a better SAT score. I promptly called admissions and inquired. I was told that early admission was being granted to the top 10% of applicants.

I was ready to send her to Wake Forest. Wake does not use SAT scores.

I sent two letters. The first was telling them that the early admission program was a stupid idea. If App is still doing that, it is still a stupid idea. Whomever came up with that needs to take the SAT.

The second letter was a bit of a plea to reconsider her application. Fortunately, we had just received her ACT score. She rocked the ACT, knocked it out. I included an "unofficial" copy of the ACT score. She was accepted a couple of weeks later.

I believe the high ACT score is what saved her. It still enrages me that she almost missed admission to App because of the SAT. By the way, my daughter is now a junior majoring in chemistry. She had a 4.0 last semester. So, the SAT can kiss my ***!

Black Saturday is correct. Parents must help prospective students with preparation. Navigate the SAT abyss with classes on how to take the SAT.

Sorry for the vent.

When I was a first sem freshman at App my brilliant general college advisor told me based on my SAT I was predicted to be a C student. I double majored in Bio/Chem and graduated with honors. Never even made a C in four years. So yes SAT is a terrible predictor.

My advice to parents also would be get you kid started taking the SAT early and take ut as many times as you can. My daughter took it three official times (two more in 7th and 8th grade that did not count) and her score got better every time. It makes a huge difference when it comes to scholarship money.

[Maddog1956]

I have one question to throw out. How much does one's proposed major play a part in all of this?

IMHO zero part! It's pretty much SAT, ACT score within a SEX, RACE breakdown.

It would be too easy to propose one major and change to another since many students change anyway. It's hard to change to Nursing, but most other majors are fairly easy to change to.

This is a SWAG, but I would imagine all the other "filters" break down to about 5%-10% (if that much) of the selection process while the SAT, ACT is about 90%-95% of the process.

[Maddog1956]

My daughter was seventh in her high school class, top grades, extra curricular activities, twelve hours of college credit, six alumni family members, female student of the year, etc. A wide open door to App right? Not so fast. She had an "OK" SAT. She called me from school one day saying a classmate had received her acceptance letter. This classmate was well down the rankings but she was awarded "early admission". Why? She had a better SAT score. I promptly called admissions and inquired. I was told that early admission was being granted to the top 10% of applicants.

I agree 100%!

I didn't know how much different the ACT would be since neither of mine took it. I don't know that much about the ACT, but I do understand "testing" and it leaves me to further believe that neither is valid in judging how well someone is going to do in college, if one can score "ok" on one and "rock" the other one.

Thanks for the info!

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Congrats to your daughter and to you coach! I know all to well about that school not preparing well for college and not helping in the admissions process either.

Username puts you near me, and you refer to me as coach. Not that I coach anything. I have posted a few things on here and the old board so I don't really have a secret identity, but you, you need to PM me if you don't mind. I am trying to figure out who this might be. And I am stumped.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Finally got around to accepting the admissions offer to my daughter and paying the first $200 of many many $ to App. Worse ways to spend money however.

Excited Dad still.

[Maddog1956]

Finally got around to accepting the admissions offer to my daughter and paying the first $200 of many many $ to App. Worse ways to spend money however.

Excited Dad still.

Take advantage of 1 year no interest credit cards. Pick up points and no interest, makes it a little easier.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Finally got around to accepting the admissions offer to my daughter and paying the first $200 of many many $ to App. Worse ways to spend money however.

Excited Dad still.

Take advantage of 1 year no interest credit cards. Pick up points and no interest, makes it a little easier.

I had not thought of that. Thanks for the advice.