Fascist Noise Ordinance Upheld

[Gonzo]

I'm on my phone my phone and it's late, so...

1. There is an assumption being made by some that all non-student residents of Boone are property owners/not renters.

2. It is terrifying to me that multiple alumni of my alma mater are advocating that App students should be disenfranchised. Sounds like the architects of the new voter ID bill.

Scary, scary times for the American politic. Do you hear yourselves?

You can not be disenfranchised when you are not a legal resident of the town or county. What is terrifying to think is students from my Alma mater think they should have the right to change the way of life in a town they have no intention of staying in once finished with school. If this is the way a majority of students at ASU think it is little wonder many residents have such a low opinion of students.

75% of NC residents favor voter ID. One must show a valid picture ID to board a plane, purchase alcohol, cigarettes, a home, a firearm, Sudafed or cash a check but it is unfair for someone to prove who they are when voting? The state will provide a free ID card for anyone who wants one, so that whole "costly to poor people" nonsense doesn't hold water. Those over the age of 70 will be allowed to use expired diver's license for 10 years and native Americans can use tribal identification. It will not be implemented until 2016 and voters in the 2015 & 2015 elections will be told they need one when they come back in 2016. It is not an unreasonable request and it is neither disenfranchising nor discriminatory.

First of all, I'm not a student. I am a high country resident and an alumnus of Appalachian State that happens to value fair government and the App State experience.

I've said this earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat it for you and others that seem to forget it: Students may be fundamentally transient, but their interests represent that of a revolving door of a population that makes up more than half the town. To give up on any sort of student representation in local government is to suppress 17,000 people, their opinions and their interest as major stakeholders in the area. Not to mention alienate the main bread winner of the Boone, NC.

The voter ID act is a ploy by conservative politicians to keep college students (a traditionally liberal voting demographic) from voting.

I try not to get emotionally invested in these message board debates, but frankly I'm offended by your disregard for the rights of students and the interest of your Alma Mater. It may have been a little longer ago for you than it was for me, but we were all students once.


*side note: We're getting bogged down in this representation issue and whether or not students should have a say in local government. As offensive and absurd as that opinion is, this unreasonable noise ordinance was the act of a few and was far removed from any sort of popular vote. This tangential debate about student voting rights is moot regarding the noise ordinance issue.

[Maddog1956]

You can not be disenfranchised when you are not a legal resident of the town or county. What is terrifying to think is students from my Alma mater think they should have the right to change the way of life in a town they have no intention of staying in once finished with school. If this is the way a majority of students at ASU think it is little wonder many residents have such a low opinion of students.

75% of NC residents favor voter ID. One must show a valid picture ID to board a plane, purchase alcohol, cigarettes, a home, a firearm, Sudafed or cash a check but it is unfair for someone to prove who they are when voting? The state will provide a free ID card for anyone who wants one, so that whole "costly to poor people" nonsense doesn't hold water. Those over the age of 70 will be allowed to use expired diver's license for 10 years and native Americans can use tribal identification. It will not be implemented until 2016 and voters in the 2015 & 2015 elections will be told they need one when they come back in 2016. It is not an unreasonable request and it is neither disenfranchising nor discriminatory.

It doesn't matter if you think it's right or wrong, but the law is that college students can vote either where they go to school or at home if they have been in the county for 30 days. No if's, and's or but's, its the the law, done deal, no questions, case closed. Call any local BoE and they'll say the same thing.

Paying property taxes, sales taxes, drivers license address, parents taxes or going home during the summer, or staying after graduation, has to do anything with it. It not even decided by if you are a "in-state" student at the college you attend.

The same "terrifying" thought about students voting was said about Women, Blacks, 18 year olds, non-property owners, etc. To some it was "terrifying" that these people could change the "life" of a white, male, property owner, town (after all things were perfect if you were one of them).

In NC you are a "legal resident" if you have a bed and when you leave during the day you plan on returning there at night and have no current plan to leave. You are a permanent resident, until you plan to leave. Even if you don't have an address and live under a bridge on a cardboard box (you use the PO address). End of Story! Agree with it or not!

Most of all there is no crazy "situations" that changes this from a voting standpoint.

I could go into the legal justification (for student voting) for this ruling based on the Constitution, but that's getting really off topic, but from a legislator's standpoint they would rather have all college students voting in mass in a college town (and let them take the hit) and not have them vote at home.

BTW, On the Voter ID card, I don't care either way but don't think "The state will provide a free ID card for anyone who wants one". You and I will pay for it, nothing is free! If they could "prove" that there had even been 1000 fraudulent votes, I would be 100% for spending millions, but with almost no documented fraud cases, I would rather get a $4 million tax break.

Also like I said it doesn't matter to me a whole lot, but don't think it has anything to do with cutting fraud, when they say they want to cut back early voting to "save money", but put in place "voter id" with will cost money, the writing is on the wall. It only has to do with cutting a certain amount of voters out. If anyone can't see that I have a bridge to sell you.

But I do think there will be a backlash, once people that don't care much about voting get a card in "registration drives", they may think about voting next time.

Bottom Line "legal residency" is the key, but you are totally wrong on how it's decided for voting.

[Appsolutely]

"Between 2000 and 2010 there were 649 million votes cast in general elections and 13 cases of in-person voter impersonation."

Voter ID cards are a solution in search of a problem. Non-partisan statistics show that you're more likely to be hit by lightning than for a legitimate case of voter fraud to occur at your polling place. I don't care which political party perpetrates this kind of nonsense; it's an obvious attempt to disenfranchise particular groups of voters. It's no different than the gerrymandering of voting districts to benefit the party in control of state legislatures.

[hapapp]

I don't live in NC so I haven't kept up but isn't the state legislature considering a "poll tax" of sorts on parents whose children vote where they are enrolled as opposed to the parent's precinct?

All kinds of arguments can be made about the voter ID laws but it just seems really coincidental that the efforts in many states (including NC and VA) to pass such laws occurred after consecutive presidential defeats by the GOP. The bottom line, instead of enlarging the franchise, we seem hell bent on making it more difficult for people to vote. Our voter participation rate is already at the bottom of the list of the world's democracies.

[Maddog1956]

I don't live in NC so I haven't kept up but isn't the state legislature considering a "poll tax" of sorts on parents whose children vote where they are enrolled as opposed to the parent's precinct?

All kinds of arguments can be made about the voter ID laws but it just seems really coincidental that the efforts in many states (including NC and VA) to pass such laws occurred after consecutive presidential defeats by the GOP. The bottom line, instead of enlarging the franchise, we seem hell bent on making it more difficult for people to vote. Our voter participation rate is already at the bottom of the list of the world's democracies.

Yes they are considering taking the dependant deduction away if your student votes where they go to college. Naturally they can't affect Federal taxes. Also most of the GOP candidates would rather they vote in Chapel Hill, Asheville, Boone, etc instead of coming back home to vote, so I'm not sure if it will pass. It will still be by choice however where the student votes.

I predict a "voter id" will be a very affective "get out the vote" tool. Look for several BBQ's and Fish Fry's that require "ID" to receive your "free" sandwich.

[hapapp]

I don't live in NC so I haven't kept up but isn't the state legislature considering a "poll tax" of sorts on parents whose children vote where they are enrolled as opposed to the parent's precinct?

All kinds of arguments can be made about the voter ID laws but it just seems really coincidental that the efforts in many states (including NC and VA) to pass such laws occurred after consecutive presidential defeats by the GOP. The bottom line, instead of enlarging the franchise, we seem hell bent on making it more difficult for people to vote. Our voter participation rate is already at the bottom of the list of the world's democracies.

Yes they are considering taking the dependant deduction away if your student votes where they go to college. Naturally they can't affect Federal taxes. Also most of the GOP candidates would rather they vote in Chapel Hill, Asheville, Boone, etc instead of coming back home to vote, so I'm not sure if it will pass. It will still be by choice however where the student votes.

I predict a "voter id" will be a very affective "get out the vote" tool. Look for several BBQ's and Fish Fry's that require "ID" to receive your "free" sandwich.

All those efforts prior to the 2012 elections actually may have backfired as we now see that African-American turnout was greater than the white turnout.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... -election/

[GlassOnion]

Yeah, no point in arguing here.

If you cant see that it has taken TWO parties to pull America apart, its hopeless. Go ahead and scratch each others back if it makes you happy.

[RankinApp]

All those efforts prior to the 2012 elections actually may have backfired as we now see that African-American turnout was greater than the white turnout.

Tis a curious thing that happens when all sort of roadblocks are thrown up to deter certain segments of the population from voting. And let's be honest - we know why mostly republican legislatures are doing everything they can to stifle the minority, young, woman, and college vote. The notion of voter fraud is a red herring.

[RankinApp]

ACORN. Awesome, just in time for tin foil hat happy hour.

Independent investigations were made by state attorneys general of Massachusetts and California, and the U.S. Attorney of Brooklyn, New York; their reports were released beginning in December 2009 and extending through April 2010. The attorney general's office in Massachusetts and the U.S. Attorney for Brooklyn concluded that the ACORN workers had committed no criminal activity and that the videos were "heavily edited" to present material out of context and create a misleading impression of activities.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

The California Attorney General granted immunity to O'Keefe and Giles in exchange for their raw videos shot at three California ACORN offices. Its comparison of the raw videos with the released versions found that the published videos had been heavily edited to misrepresent the workers and the situations so as to suggest criminal intent and activity.[10][11][12][13] The California report was followed by one by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, which reported there was no evidence that ACORN workers had misused government funds or participated in the criminal activities represented in the videos.[14][15] But, ACORN was effectively destroyed by then.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN_2009 ... the_videos

Interesting the Truth The Vote link/post was deleted as a little Google search brings up the woman behind the website.

Although Engelbrecht insists that True the Vote is nonpartisan, its events invariably feature Republican candidates speaking to tea party adherents.

Engelbrecht and other True the Vote speakers also have made presentations during the past year to Republican-leaning groups funded by Americans for Prosperity, an organization founded by the Koch brothers, Kansas billionaires who contribute large sums to numerous conservative causes.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/arti ... 967883.php

[Appsolutely]

Rankin, the ACORN thing was dredged up over on the thread about Liberty (as an attempt to defend that turd, Breitbart) but I can understand how you might have confused the two threads.
Suggest you repeat your post over on the Falwell Tech thread, and thanks for adding some truth to the discussion...

[Maddog1956]

All those efforts prior to the 2012 elections actually may have backfired as we now see that African-American turnout was greater than the white turnout.

Couldnt possibly have had anything to do with the President being African American...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/us/po ... .html?_r=0

When in doubt, the answer is always some kind of Republican conspiracy.

Of course, when an organization like ACORN, which recieved federal funding, campaigns openly, and often illegally for dems, turns around an pulls in a massive contract for the US census, which is used to determine representation in Congress, its "move along,nothing to see here."

I think it very true that having a President being African American had a lot to do with it. Just like Mitt got 62% of white peoples votes. So I guess what I'm hearing, is that it's different when a AA votes for an AA, then 250 years of whites voting for whites.

It may not be a GOP conspiracy, but I've never seen a line of people waiting 4 hours to vote at a country club (yes they do vote at country clubs in some places). But I've seen 4 hour lines in a black community.

I'm not saying it's a GOP conspiracy, but people are still talking about how ACORN helped win the 2012 election even when it hasn't received any federal funding or even exited since 2010.

I'm not going to say it's a GOP conspiracy that ACORN (which doesn't exist) still comes up but Strategic Allied Consulting (a GOP firm) never does. (look it up)

I'm not calling it a GOP conspiracy that a majority of GOP'ers are still birthers and don't believe Obama is Christian. But if it's not a DEM conspiracy and only GOP'ers believe it....I wonder.

[JCline0429]

Im a current student as well but I don't want to be involved in the towns politics. I went home and voted early instead of registering here so I have no room to complain about anything here. Yeah the noise ordinance sucks but I have yet to see enforcement hamper any normal nighttime activities and I doubt it will. Why should I have a say in the way taxes are paid when I don't pay property taxes here. Why should any asu student who lives in a dorm be able to vote school board members into office. Yeah the school brings a lot to the town and the town make App awesome. I really love going out on king street and how it is a the mix of locals and students but this is their town they they grew up in and we only visit for short time.

Thats just the way I look at it. Wilmington will always be home to me and I would be pissed if UNCW students who have no knowledge of what is good or bad for the overall city began to vote and affect issues.

Good post. Rep point.

[JCline0429]

ACORN. Awesome, just in time for tin foil hat happy hour.

Independent investigations were made by state attorneys general of Massachusetts and California, and the U.S. Attorney of Brooklyn, New York; their reports were released beginning in December 2009 and extending through April 2010. The attorney general's office in Massachusetts and the U.S. Attorney for Brooklyn concluded that the ACORN workers had committed no criminal activity and that the videos were "heavily edited" to present material out of context and create a misleading impression of activities.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

The California Attorney General granted immunity to O'Keefe and Giles in exchange for their raw videos shot at three California ACORN offices. Its comparison of the raw videos with the released versions found that the published videos had been heavily edited to misrepresent the workers and the situations so as to suggest criminal intent and activity.[10][11][12][13] The California report was followed by one by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, which reported there was no evidence that ACORN workers had misused government funds or participated in the criminal activities represented in the videos.[14][15] But, ACORN was effectively destroyed by then.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN_2009 ... the_videos

Interesting the Truth The Vote link/post was deleted as a little Google search brings up the woman behind the website.

Although Engelbrecht insists that True the Vote is nonpartisan, its events invariably feature Republican candidates speaking to tea party adherents.

Engelbrecht and other True the Vote speakers also have made presentations during the past year to Republican-leaning groups funded by Americans for Prosperity, an organization founded by the Koch brothers, Kansas billionaires who contribute large sums to numerous conservative causes.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/arti ... 967883.php

When a woman says they can finance a prostitution ring, what is there to edit?

[JCline0429]

"Between 2000 and 2010 there were 649 million votes cast in general elections and 13 cases of in-person voter impersonation."

Voter ID cards are a solution in search of a problem. Non-partisan statistics show that you're more likely to be hit by lightning than for a legitimate case of voter fraud to occur at your polling place. I don't care which political party perpetrates this kind of nonsense; it's an obvious attempt to disenfranchise particular groups of voters. It's no different than the gerrymandering of voting districts to benefit the party in control of state legislatures.

Those were cases they could prove. That doesn't mean there weren't thousands more. How do you prove voter fraud? You would have to search every precinct's records and prove that a person used different names. That's not going to happen especially without ID's.

[JCline0429]

I don't live in NC so I haven't kept up but isn't the state legislature considering a "poll tax" of sorts on parents whose children vote where they are enrolled as opposed to the parent's precinct?

All kinds of arguments can be made about the voter ID laws but it just seems really coincidental that the efforts in many states (including NC and VA) to pass such laws occurred after consecutive presidential defeats by the GOP. The bottom line, instead of enlarging the franchise, we seem hell bent on making it more difficult for people to vote. Our voter participation rate is already at the bottom of the list of the world's democracies.

Yes they are considering taking the dependant deduction away if your student votes where they go to college. Naturally they can't affect Federal taxes. Also most of the GOP candidates would rather they vote in Chapel Hill, Asheville, Boone, etc instead of coming back home to vote, so I'm not sure if it will pass. It will still be by choice however where the student votes.

I predict a "voter id" will be a very affective "get out the vote" tool. Look for several BBQ's and Fish Fry's that require "ID" to receive your "free" sandwich.

All those efforts prior to the 2012 elections actually may have backfired as we now see that African-American turnout was greater than the white turnout.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... -election/

You don't think it had anything to do with the fact that they had a viable Presidential candidate for the first time had anything to do with it?

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

ACORN. Awesome, just in time for tin foil hat happy hour.

Independent investigations were made by state attorneys general of Massachusetts and California, and the U.S. Attorney of Brooklyn, New York; their reports were released beginning in December 2009 and extending through April 2010. The attorney general's office in Massachusetts and the U.S. Attorney for Brooklyn concluded that the ACORN workers had committed no criminal activity and that the videos were "heavily edited" to present material out of context and create a misleading impression of activities.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

The California Attorney General granted immunity to O'Keefe and Giles in exchange for their raw videos shot at three California ACORN offices. Its comparison of the raw videos with the released versions found that the published videos had been heavily edited to misrepresent the workers and the situations so as to suggest criminal intent and activity.[10][11][12][13] The California report was followed by one by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, which reported there was no evidence that ACORN workers had misused government funds or participated in the criminal activities represented in the videos.[14][15] But, ACORN was effectively destroyed by then.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN_2009 ... the_videos

Interesting the Truth The Vote link/post was deleted as a little Google search brings up the woman behind the website.

Although Engelbrecht insists that True the Vote is nonpartisan, its events invariably feature Republican candidates speaking to tea party adherents.

Engelbrecht and other True the Vote speakers also have made presentations during the past year to Republican-leaning groups funded by Americans for Prosperity, an organization founded by the Koch brothers, Kansas billionaires who contribute large sums to numerous conservative causes.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/arti ... 967883.php

When a woman says they can finance a prostitution ring, what is there to edit?

The fact that that is not what went down- but an edited version. How about I quote you as stating that JCline "can finance a prostitution ring." You did type that out, so I must be correct in my stating that you typed it -which you did, and don't even try to deny that you did. I wonder if Google would pick this up in a search engine if I typed it out enough and made it part of my signature

Read the links I sent. It gives a run down of what happened. If O'Keefe was on the up and up he would have fought the settlement. Media has a good bit of latitude on slander, and knowing that and still settle, I think it reasonable to believe O'Keefe knew he did wrong and they had him on it so he settled.

[JCline0429]

ACORN. Awesome, just in time for tin foil hat happy hour.

Independent investigations were made by state attorneys general of Massachusetts and California, and the U.S. Attorney of Brooklyn, New York; their reports were released beginning in December 2009 and extending through April 2010. The attorney general's office in Massachusetts and the U.S. Attorney for Brooklyn concluded that the ACORN workers had committed no criminal activity and that the videos were "heavily edited" to present material out of context and create a misleading impression of activities.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

The California Attorney General granted immunity to O'Keefe and Giles in exchange for their raw videos shot at three California ACORN offices. Its comparison of the raw videos with the released versions found that the published videos had been heavily edited to misrepresent the workers and the situations so as to suggest criminal intent and activity.[10][11][12][13] The California report was followed by one by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, which reported there was no evidence that ACORN workers had misused government funds or participated in the criminal activities represented in the videos.[14][15] But, ACORN was effectively destroyed by then.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN_2009 ... the_videos

Interesting the Truth The Vote link/post was deleted as a little Google search brings up the woman behind the website.

Although Engelbrecht insists that True the Vote is nonpartisan, its events invariably feature Republican candidates speaking to tea party adherents.

Engelbrecht and other True the Vote speakers also have made presentations during the past year to Republican-leaning groups funded by Americans for Prosperity, an organization founded by the Koch brothers, Kansas billionaires who contribute large sums to numerous conservative causes.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/arti ... 967883.php

When a woman says they can finance a prostitution ring, what is there to edit?

The fact that that is not what went down- but an edited version. How about I quote you as stating that JCline "can finance a prostitution ring." You did type that out, so I must be correct in my stating that you typed it -which you did, and don't even try to deny that you did. I wonder if Google would pick this up in a search engine if I typed it out enough and made it part of my signature

Read the links I sent. It gives a run down of what happened. If O'Keefe was on the up and up he would have fought the settlement. Media has a good bit of latitude on slander, and knowing that and still settle, I think it reasonable to believe O'Keefe knew he did wrong and they had him on it so he settled.

Your post is really a stretch. The excerpt was a full five or 10 minutes long it seemed. Besides, if I recall correctly, they did the same presentation at more than one site. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[97grad]

The thing that voter ID supporters seem not to understand is the inherent conflict of interest due to the fact that the folks such a bill would make voting more difficult for overwhelmingly oppose the people pushing the bill. That combined with the complete lack of any credible evidence of a problem is enough to call BS in my book.

[Maddog1956]

"Between 2000 and 2010 there were 649 million votes cast in general elections and 13 cases of in-person voter impersonation."

Voter ID cards are a solution in search of a problem. Non-partisan statistics show that you're more likely to be hit by lightning than for a legitimate case of voter fraud to occur at your polling place. I don't care which political party perpetrates this kind of nonsense; it's an obvious attempt to disenfranchise particular groups of voters. It's no different than the gerrymandering of voting districts to benefit the party in control of state legislatures.

Those were cases they could prove. That doesn't mean there weren't thousands more. How do you prove voter fraud? You would have to search every precinct's records and prove that a person used different names. That's not going to happen especially without ID's.

Only 13 out of 649 million doesn't seem like a big problem, even "thousands more" out of 649 million is less then .0001%. If every state did voter ID it would cost over $100 million. If they can't think of a more pressing problem to solve with $100 million they can just give it back to the people, I would estimate that's about $333,333 each. I think I could use that to solve more problems in this country then between 13 to "thousands" of people voting wrong.

Proving voter fraud is actually very easy, you audit! You check a very small number of voters (by mail or phone) and ask did they vote. If they voted then it is correct everything is ok, if they didn't vote and it's listed that they voted then it's fraud. In all the cases they checked they found 13 or so. Everyone that wants voter id uses "possible" numbers, but like I said it's very easy to audit votes.

You can't "prove" a negative, but you can be pretty dog-gone sure without spending $4 million in NC alone.

[Maddog1956]

Im a current student as well but I don't want to be involved in the towns politics. I went home and voted early instead of registering here so I have no room to complain about anything here. Yeah the noise ordinance sucks but I have yet to see enforcement hamper any normal nighttime activities and I doubt it will. Why should I have a say in the way taxes are paid when I don't pay property taxes here. Why should any asu student who lives in a dorm be able to vote school board members into office. Yeah the school brings a lot to the town and the town make App awesome. I really love going out on king street and how it is a the mix of locals and students but this is their town they they grew up in and we only visit for short time.

Thats just the way I look at it. Wilmington will always be home to me and I would be pissed if UNCW students who have no knowledge of what is good or bad for the overall city began to vote and affect issues.

The fact is UNCW student can and do vote in local Wilmington elections. That's the law!

I understand what you're saying and you have the right to your opinion, but can you think for a minute that maybe some of the people that live in Wilmington (students and non-students) may not like the fact that you want to vote there, because you're not there everyday? To some of them you are an outsider that only lives there in the summer. Paying or not paying property taxes has nothing to do with it. You may know a lot of what going on there and be able to make good choices about who to vote for in Wilmington, but a student in Boone can do the same and make a good choice in a Boone election as well. Also how well someone knows what is going on is not a requirement to vote anywhere.

The fact is you have a choice and can choose to vote either in Boone or Wilmington and nothing is wrong with either.