nc scewing teachers again....

[JCline0429]

The problem is in central offices and school boards. If these people actually cared about the teachers and students learning their would not be a problem, my former school system just bought lap tops for all kids...to bad they didn't have the infrastructure to support all those lap tops so they crash every other day. Central office employees look out for themselves and their friends, even if you have 10-year and the principal doesn't like you, then you will be put on action plan. My former school system hired a superintendent that after we hired him, the teachers from the county he was leaving wrote our local paper thanking us for taking him. Found out one of the board members has a place at the beach next to him. Welcome to local politics, a lot of this is not on the teachers its about 2 or 3 levels above them and its not at the party in control. If you give them more money 9 times out of 10 they will misspend that money.

A lot of these purchases come from federal ESEA Title I money and the curriculum requires the use of computers. Many tests are mandated to be taken on computers. SRI is given only on computers if I'm not mistaken. My 7 year old took almost all of his state and locally mandated tests on desktops or laptops this year. Paper copies with bubble sheets, etc were not available

BTW, where did you get your 9 out of 10 statistic?

[3rd]

The problem is in central offices and school boards. If these people actually cared about the teachers and students learning their would not be a problem, my former school system just bought lap tops for all kids...to bad they didn't have the infrastructure to support all those lap tops so they crash every other day. Central office employees look out for themselves and their friends, even if you have 10-year and the principal doesn't like you, then you will be put on action plan. My former school system hired a superintendent that after we hired him, the teachers from the county he was leaving wrote our local paper thanking us for taking him. Found out one of the board members has a place at the beach next to him. Welcome to local politics, a lot of this is not on the teachers its about 2 or 3 levels above them and its not at the party in control. If you give them more money 9 times out of 10 they will misspend that money.

A lot of these purchases come from federal ESEA Title I money and the curriculum requires the use of computers. Many tests are mandated to be taken on computers. SRI is given only on computers if I'm not mistaken. My 7 year old took almost all of his state and locally mandated tests on desktops or laptops this year. Paper copies with bubble sheets, etc were not available

Yes i know a lot of this is but have a lap top for every kid doesn't work unless you can know they will stay up. When i used them in high school the system crashed every 15 min so that was a wasted day. And about taking tests on a computer, what idiot came up with math tests online is the dumbest thing ever. As a math teacher i will give the kid credit if his or hers work is on the right track but they mess up simple math. That is how a kids learns. On a computer you can't do that. They tell the teachers its not about teaching to get the right answer and moving on, but when you take a test online all your doing is getting the "right answer"

[JCline0429]

The problem is in central offices and school boards. If these people actually cared about the teachers and students learning their would not be a problem, my former school system just bought lap tops for all kids...to bad they didn't have the infrastructure to support all those lap tops so they crash every other day. Central office employees look out for themselves and their friends, even if you have 10-year and the principal doesn't like you, then you will be put on action plan. My former school system hired a superintendent that after we hired him, the teachers from the county he was leaving wrote our local paper thanking us for taking him. Found out one of the board members has a place at the beach next to him. Welcome to local politics, a lot of this is not on the teachers its about 2 or 3 levels above them and its not at the party in control. If you give them more money 9 times out of 10 they will misspend that money.

A lot of these purchases come from federal ESEA Title I money and the curriculum requires the use of computers. Many tests are mandated to be taken on computers. SRI is given only on computers if I'm not mistaken. My 7 year old took almost all of his state and locally mandated tests on desktops or laptops this year. Paper copies with bubble sheets, etc were not available

Yes i know a lot of this is but have a lap top for every kid doesn't work unless you can know they will stay up. When i used them in high school the system crashed every 15 min so that was a wasted day. And about taking tests on a computer, what idiot came up with math tests online is the dumbest thing ever. As a math teacher i will give the kid credit if his or hers work is on the right track but they mess up simple math. That is how a kids learns. On a computer you can't do that. They tell the teachers its not about teaching to get the right answer and moving on, but when you take a test online all your doing is getting the "right answer"

These tests to which I am referring are standardized tests and the teacher can't possibly review every question they take. First of all, it would be called teaching the test and is against all rules.
Math instruction is most often done with handouts, chalk boards, smart boards, OH projectors and teacher lectures before they go on the computer. Also, programmed instruction allows students to learn at their own pace and level. When I taught math, many moons ago, I used SRA math kits which enabled me to instruct students at all grade levels within a class. That is something I couldn't possibly have done with typical teacher instruction. How do you teach a 7th grader 7th grade math when he or she is on a 3rd grade or 12th grade level all in one class by traditional means?

[bcoach]

I preface this post with the fact that I am retired, thus I don't ask for raises.

bcoach: just tell me upon what criteria a teacher should be evaluated.

First of all NC doesn't have tenure anymore. It is called career status and all tenure means is that a teacher cannot be fired without a cause. An non-tenured teacher can be fired without giving a reason in the first three years. My first grade teacher, when I was six, was fired in order to make room for a new principal's wife when the new principal was coming in.
If a principal can't find a reason, then a teacher should not be fired.

Grounds for dismissal

Under current law, career status, or tenured, teachers can be dismissed for the following reasons:
• Inadequate performance. • Immorality. • Insubordination. • Neglect of duty. • Physical or mental incapacity. • Habitual or excessive use of alcohol or nonmedical use of a controlled substance. • Conviction of a felony or a crime involving moral turpitude. • Advocating the overthrow of the government of the United States or of the state of North Carolina by force, violence, or other unlawful means. • Failure to fulfill the duties and responsibilities imposed upon teachers or school administrators by the General Statutes of this state. • Failure to comply with such reasonable requirements as the board may prescribe. • Any cause that constitutes grounds for the revocation of the career teacher’s teaching license. • A justifiable decrease in the number of positions due to district reorganization, decreased enrollment or decreased funding. • Failure to maintain his or her license in a current status. • Failure to repay money owed to the state. • Providing false information or knowingly omitting a material fact on an application for employment.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/03/30/ ... rylink=cpy

How about the ability to teach those that want to learn.
To the rest of your comment, I give up. you have made my point better than I could.

[JCline0429]

That comes under "failure to fulfill the duties...."
What point? I simply gave you the reasons a teacher could be fired which strikes down any argument people have about tenure.

[bcoach]

That comes under "failure to fulfill the duties...."
What point? I simply gave you the reasons a teacher could be fired which strikes down any argument people have about tenure.

It strikes down nothing. It is not the reasons, it is the process. It is so difficult to get it done more often than not it gets dropped or they move the teacher. As far as changing the name of tenure let me say this. I can call a turkey a duck but he still can't swim, he is still a turkey. Here is the bottom line. If you want sympathy from the public then tell them you are willing to play by the same rules that they have to play by. I want teachers to make more money. I want teachers who excel to make the most. That will never happen with a "that's not fair to me" attitude.

[ImfromClayton]

The problem is in central offices and school boards. If these people actually cared about the teachers and students learning their would not be a problem, my former school system just bought lap tops for all kids...to bad they didn't have the infrastructure to support all those lap tops so they crash every other day. Central office employees look out for themselves and their friends, even if you have 10-year and the principal doesn't like you, then you will be put on action plan. My former school system hired a superintendent that after we hired him, the teachers from the county he was leaving wrote our local paper thanking us for taking him. Found out one of the board members has a place at the beach next to him. Welcome to local politics, a lot of this is not on the teachers its about 2 or 3 levels above them and its not at the party in control. If you give them more money 9 times out of 10 they will misspend that money.

A lot of these purchases come from federal ESEA Title I money and the curriculum requires the use of computers. Many tests are mandated to be taken on computers. SRI is given only on computers if I'm not mistaken. My 7 year old took almost all of his state and locally mandated tests on desktops or laptops this year. Paper copies with bubble sheets, etc were not available

BTW, where did you get your 9 out of 10 statistic?

These computer tests drive me insane. I'm sure you have seen with your 7 year old how difficult it is for most students that young to take a math problem off the computer screen, transfer it to paper, find an answer, and then get that answer back on the computer screen. By that time, most kids have lost focus. It is so frustrating. We have KINDERGARTENERS testing on computers these days. In Charlotte Meck Schools, many kids don't even know what a computer is when they get to school for the first time, and they are expected to pass quarterly testing on one? They are 5!

[JCline0429]

The problem is in central offices and school boards. If these people actually cared about the teachers and students learning their would not be a problem, my former school system just bought lap tops for all kids...to bad they didn't have the infrastructure to support all those lap tops so they crash every other day. Central office employees look out for themselves and their friends, even if you have 10-year and the principal doesn't like you, then you will be put on action plan. My former school system hired a superintendent that after we hired him, the teachers from the county he was leaving wrote our local paper thanking us for taking him. Found out one of the board members has a place at the beach next to him. Welcome to local politics, a lot of this is not on the teachers its about 2 or 3 levels above them and its not at the party in control. If you give them more money 9 times out of 10 they will misspend that money.

A lot of these purchases come from federal ESEA Title I money and the curriculum requires the use of computers. Many tests are mandated to be taken on computers. SRI is given only on computers if I'm not mistaken. My 7 year old took almost all of his state and locally mandated tests on desktops or laptops this year. Paper copies with bubble sheets, etc were not available

BTW, where did you get your 9 out of 10 statistic?

These computer tests drive me insane. I'm sure you have seen with your 7 year old how difficult it is for most students that young to take a math problem off the computer screen, transfer it to paper, find an answer, and then get that answer back on the computer screen. By that time, most kids have lost focus. It is so frustrating. We have KINDERGARTENERS testing on computers these days. In Charlotte Meck Schools, many kids don't even know what a computer is when they get to school for the first time, and they are expected to pass quarterly testing on one? They are 5!

I totally agree. The world says that knowledge of computers is a prerequisite for finding jobs in today's market, but the demand on schools to furnish those skills is absurd.

[JCline0429]

Too, I wonder how teachers who teach in alternative schools for students who have been sent there for disciplinary reasons first, and performance in academics has to come secondarily, will be evaluated. Getting the kids through a day without them fighting, assaulting a teacher, smuggling in drugs/weapons or running away, are the primary goals.

My son is school resource officer in an alternative school. They start the day by searching book bags and back packs for drugs and weapons.

[asutrnr81]

... But yet, our system will disregard their personal choices and force them to take classes they will never need, take the SAT, ACT, and other standardized national tests they will never need.

What NC needs is a stronger vocational system.

Very possibly too, if we can get some of these students into tracks that have some sort of history with their family, we can increase the amount of parent involvement that is needed to help their child be more successful. I hate to say this, but I have seen two kinds of parent involvement in my 18 years in the classroom. The parent that is not involved at all and the parent that enables their child that can do no wrong.

Sorry, my rant is over.

Rant was perfect and I support your position!

[JCline0429]

... But yet, our system will disregard their personal choices and force them to take classes they will never need, take the SAT, ACT, and other standardized national tests they will never need.

What NC needs is a stronger vocational system.

Very possibly too, if we can get some of these students into tracks that have some sort of history with their family, we can increase the amount of parent involvement that is needed to help their child be more successful. I hate to say this, but I have seen two kinds of parent involvement in my 18 years in the classroom. The parent that is not involved at all and the parent that enables their child that can do no wrong.

Sorry, my rant is over.

Rant was perfect and I support your position!

Vocational ed is very expensive and requires expensive facilities and equipment. Union County has a centrally located campus just for voc ed primarily because it is cost prohibitive to house one in each school. Too, there just wouldn't be enough students to have a viable progrm in each school.

[appst89]

Too, I wonder how teachers who teach in alternative schools for students who have been sent there for disciplinary reasons first, and performance in academics has to come secondarily, will be evaluated. Getting the kids through a day without them fighting, assaulting a teacher, smuggling in drugs/weapons or running away, are the primary goals.

My son is school resource officer in an alternative school. They start the day by searching book bags and back packs for drugs and weapons.

You keep asking how, as if there is some one-size-fits-all evaluation that can be used for every teacher. That is the the problem now. We try that approach for teaching and for rating teachers. Surely there are people in education who are capable of creating a professional assessment of teachers whose classrooms may have different purposes or serve different interests? If there aren't then it seems we may have uncovered another problem.

[JCline0429]

BTW. How are you evaluated? Do you move up the salary scale based on number of years served or do you have an evaluation every year that determines your salary? You are a state employee, aren't you?

[kiddbrewer]

... But yet, our system will disregard their personal choices and force them to take classes they will never need, take the SAT, ACT, and other standardized national tests they will never need.

What NC needs is a stronger vocational system.

Very possibly too, if we can get some of these students into tracks that have some sort of history with their family, we can increase the amount of parent involvement that is needed to help their child be more successful. I hate to say this, but I have seen two kinds of parent involvement in my 18 years in the classroom. The parent that is not involved at all and the parent that enables their child that can do no wrong.

Sorry, my rant is over.

Rant was perfect and I support your position!

Vocational ed is very expensive and requires expensive facilities and equipment. Union County has a centrally located campus just for voc ed primarily because it is cost prohibitive to house one in each school. Too, there just wouldn't be enough students to have a viable progrm in each school.

I'm not saying my suggestion was a perfect one, but it is a solution that can reach hundreds, if not thousands of students that otherwise would slip through the cracks because the educational system is forcing them to take courses they wont need in their future endeavors, i.e. future farmers, hairstylists, auto mechanics, etc. As my late father always said, "You get what you put in."

[JCline0429]

... But yet, our system will disregard their personal choices and force them to take classes they will never need, take the SAT, ACT, and other standardized national tests they will never need.

What NC needs is a stronger vocational system.

Very possibly too, if we can get some of these students into tracks that have some sort of history with their family, we can increase the amount of parent involvement that is needed to help their child be more successful. I hate to say this, but I have seen two kinds of parent involvement in my 18 years in the classroom. The parent that is not involved at all and the parent that enables their child that can do no wrong.

Sorry, my rant is over.

Rant was perfect and I support your position!

Vocational ed is very expensive and requires expensive facilities and equipment. Union County has a centrally located campus just for voc ed primarily because it is cost prohibitive to house one in each school. Too, there just wouldn't be enough students to have a viable progrm in each school.

I'm not saying my suggestion was a perfect one, but it is a solution that can reach hundreds, if not thousands of students that otherwise would slip through the cracks because the educational system is forcing them to take courses they wont need in their future endeavors, i.e. future farmers, hairstylists, auto mechanics, etc. As my late father always said, "You get what you put in."

Community colleges provide that in most areas of NC. Many high schools do offer these programs. A local high school offered cosmetology until the community college expanded its program. High school dropouts were allowed to enroll as soon as they reached a certain age. Just an aside, at my local high school, a kid cut off a finger in woodworking class. The teacher and the school were sued for big money. Safety issues are a huge factor. And like I said, many high schools across the state do offer vocational programs. Vocational programs also include business courses, book keeping, computers. etc. Most if, not all high schools in NC do offer these programs.

Most high schools in agricultural areas do offer courses in agriculure, and auto mechanics. The guy who works on my cars learned his trade , according to him, in an automechanics class at his high school. They place students, when available, auto repair shops as part of the vocational program. I forget what it is called, but students are allowed to work, during the school day for a certain number of hours in retail and industry and earn money while they attend school.

[appst89]

BTW. How are you evaluated? Do you move up the salary scale based on number of years served or do you have an evaluation every year that determines your salary? You are a state employee, aren't you?

I assume this was to me. I already answered all that in response to your question earlier. I am a state employee and I hate the way they do evaluations. It kills all incentive to excel and makes it all but impossible to get rid of those who do nothing, and we all get paid the same, based on the job description.

[HeffnerIV]

Why is it that so many public school teachers are opposed to charter schools?

[JCline0429]

BTW. How are you evaluated? Do you move up the salary scale based on number of years served or do you have an evaluation every year that determines your salary? You are a state employee, aren't you?

I assume this was to me. I already answered all that in response to your question earlier. I am a state employee and I hate the way they do evaluations. It kills all incentive to excel and makes it all but impossible to get rid of those who do nothing, and we all get paid the same, based on the job description.

Then that process should be ended, too. I assume you would agree.. BTW, I didn't see your response to my question concerneing your position with the state.

[appst89]

BTW. How are you evaluated? Do you move up the salary scale based on number of years served or do you have an evaluation every year that determines your salary? You are a state employee, aren't you?

I assume this was to me. I already answered all that in response to your question earlier. I am a state employee and I hate the way they do evaluations. It kills all incentive to excel and makes it all but impossible to get rid of those who do nothing, and we all get paid the same, based on the job description.

Then that process should be ended, too. I assume you would agree.. BTW, I didn't see your response to my question concerneing your position with the state.

My reply: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2405&start=40#p27708

Yes, it absolutely should be ended. People should be paid for how they perform not for how long they have occupied a chair.

[JCline0429]

90% of all teachers are excellent teachers, great mentors, great friends, impact children as much as anyone, yet we as a state and a country have their value to society as a low level in relationship to compensation. We may have to cut other things in order to increase pay, but what could be more valuable than teachers with passion and motivation toward students. I would have no problem with a 1% sales tax increase if I knew that 100% would go to increase elementary and high school teachers over and beyond current budget. By the way I taught and coached 5 years and then left for the business world. Not bragging but I for one should have been a teacher/coach for my entire career. PAY TEACHERS MORE NOW is my war cry!!!

I can't agree more. I am a teacher and I wouldn't mind a small tax increase knowing that 100% of the funds go to not only the teachers, but to help fund education like texts and teacher assistants and not central office administrators. I'm working with books that we got 2 curriculum alignments ago. Now that NC has gone to the Common Core, none of the books are aligned with the Common Core. Google has been my best friend, along with 2-3 old texts per class, when I am planning my lessons.

That is what the lottery money was supposed to go for,but, it didn't.