North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Rick83
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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Rick83 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:21 am

We've debated this time and again but, here's my point of view. Assuming that funding of some kind can be reasonably obtained I believe we need to add at least 5 to 6K outdoor seats in addition the 1K club or luxury seats mentioned. I think we need to be at, or just over 30K, in permanent seats with space to add temporary seats for the bigger games. We need to get this done before the 2020s arrive. Have blocks of the additional outside seats reserved for students and require a student ID to get into all "student" sections (I don't believe this is current procedure) to encourage non-students to buy reserved seat tickets.
Why do we want to limit ourselves to a cap of 35K? As we move through time we're going to have more and more "big" games with not just P5s, but also regional schools like Marshal, ECU, UNCC, Wake, etc. Plus, as people become more familiar with Sun Belt teams they'll be more interested in those games. Our "smaller" games are only carried by ESPN3 which isn't going to attract many non-involved fans as you have to specifically search out and stream the game so why do we care if there's some aluminum showing for those games? Wouldn't it mean more to have 40 to 45K in attendance for the "big" games carried by the ESPN channels that will get the casual watcher that's channel surfing? Also, imagine what it'd be like for recruits to come up for games with 45K in attendance?
I've read the comments that having more seats (without bodies in them) would "destroy the atmosphere" at The Rock but I totally disagree. Having more seats will not keep people away from the games at all...so we're not going to have a "drop" in attendance and having more seats would encourage more people to come and stay longer as it's got to be an uncomfortable, unpleasant experience for many that are stuck on the hill. Yes, I know some families like the hill, and that's fine but for the big games it was shoulder to shoulder standing room, not sitting on the grass.
At some point within the next decade there's probably going to be a seismic shift in college football with major conference realignment. So we need to get our facilities upgraded and our average attendance up so that we can be in the best position possible to get into the best conference possible. We need to be ahead of the curve on this...we need a vision of what we want for our program and take the steps necessary today to get us there and not base decisions on what's happened during our turbulent transition from FCS to FBS.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Goapps15 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:36 am

I mean something that is forgotten right now is that we already have roughly 2500 seats in that end zone temporarily. I wouild love for their to be a wrap around from both east and west side through the new end zone facility as an extra mean of egress.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by appgrouch » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am

When was the last time we had an audited attendance number (ie tickets scanned, turnstile)?


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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Goapps15 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:43 am

appgrouch wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am
When was the last time we had an audited attendance number (ie tickets scanned, turnstile)?
This is an excellent point. Especially on students.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:45 am

Guys, pretty simple, if we had the money we'd seat 30k with the next expansion.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Rick83 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:57 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:45 am
Guys, pretty simple, if we had the money we'd seat 30k with the next expansion.
Do you know that or are you just assuming? There are opinions on this board that seat expansion shouldn't happen until most games are sold out or at least close to it, and that's in addition to packing in 5 to 10K on the hill like standing sardines. If administration feels the same way then that may not be the case.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:01 am

Their position is we need more season ticket holders to help pay for the expansion. If the money is already we aren't as dependent on future cash flows from ticket sales.

I applaud them being fiscally responsible, something that is rare in college athletics.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by JGthatsme86 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:10 am

If you are concerned about the aluminum showing, don't sit on the hill. If the hill was unoccupied, the stands would be packed every game. Just saying...



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am

appgrouch wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am
When was the last time we had an audited attendance number (ie tickets scanned, turnstile)?
Actually, this would be a much higher number than what we actually post. I have one new grad and two in school and they report that very, very often the scanner will not scan their ID and the people at the gate let them in. Each side of the original stadium officially holds 5,000. I guarantee that there are far, far more than 5,000 in those lower West stands.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Rick83 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:01 am
Their position is we need more season ticket holders to help pay for the expansion. If the money is already we aren't as dependent on future cash flows from ticket sales.

I applaud them being fiscally responsible, something that is rare in college athletics.
Hopefully they will continue to be successful with their fund-raising efforts. I'm a fiscal conservative for sure, and not privy to the AD budget, but we need to be a little proactive here. I'm stating this without knowing what the final plans are for the north end zone project but it seems like we're waiting for the program to get better (which leads to more season ticket sales) before upgrading seating. Whereas, if we had more seating (comfort is important for people to attend) for the popular games that are coming in the 2020s, we'd build up our program faster as recruits would be more excited about playing in front of larger home crowds, otherwise it'll be the 2030s before we reach the level of national prominence we all want to attain.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by ComebackShack » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:24 am

Not wanting to completely rip-off Clemson, but how cool would it be to move the Student Section to the grass hill only with overflow in the first few sections on either side of the stands nearest the scoreboard (see image, black box is new student sections). We could then move the Rock into the middle of the student section right below the scoreboard and have the players run down the middle of the student section onto the field. We need to get rid of the football helmet inflatable. It's tacky and my high school team did that.
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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by bigCasu » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:28 am

Saint3333 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:02 pm
2k students in north endzone w/ 1k club seats on the 2nd tier. Sounds good to me, those are the two groups paying for the majority of any additions to the stadium. That should open up some east side seating to season ticket holders as well.

I’ve not seen anyone suggest we not add general seating other than the initial drawings.
And here lies my issue. The vast majority have been told, we are going ahead with a North EZ project, it will have club seating, a Yosef clubroom, other amenities, etc, and drawings confirm that, but we haven't seen seating other than club seating. I'd say it might be hard for the average fan to get excited about this new project if they know they will likely not be able to give and gain access to the new venue. Now that new seating may open up the stadium to others who might want to move a section over, up or down, but its hard to communicate that message.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by appgrouch » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:33 am

HighlandsApp wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:32 am
appgrouch wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:39 am
When was the last time we had an audited attendance number (ie tickets scanned, turnstile)?
Actually, this would be a much higher number than what we actually post. I have one new grad and two in school and they report that very, very often the scanner will not scan their ID and the people at the gate let them in. Each side of the original stadium officially holds 5,000. I guarantee that there are far, far more than 5,000 in those lower West stands.
Not necessarily. Athletics knows about those and so makes an estimate of how many students are there. This is part of the reason that back in FCS a playoff game and a regular season game that appeared to have the same percentage of the stadium filled had much different attendance numbers. For playoff games the NCAA got a cut on the number of admissions, and every one had to have tickets. So the counts for playoff games was a ticket for ticket number, while most regular home games you can count the students in Bowie watching the game on the insanely expensive Yos-a-tron 8000. Inflation is a way of life.


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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Rekdiver » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:05 pm

I'm filling the area currently occupied by the south part of the track from the top of the current grass level to a new grass hill that ends right behind the sout end zone. The additional flat space we can use for 1,000 things and we preserve the beauty of the grassy look. So all we need is dirt some pea gravel and grass seed.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by APPdiesel » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:21 pm

ComebackShack wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:24 am
Not wanting to completely rip-off Clemson, but how cool would it be to move the Student Section to the grass hill only with overflow in the first few sections on either side of the stands nearest the scoreboard (see image, black box is new student sections). We could then move the Rock into the middle of the student section right below the scoreboard and have the players run down the middle of the student section onto the field. We need to get rid of the football helmet inflatable. It's tacky and my high school team did that.
Bad idea. Our student section stretching from endzone to endzone is who we are and makes us unique. You want to disengage 10k students? Relegate them to some of the worst seats in the house.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by appgrouch » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:25 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:21 pm
ComebackShack wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:24 am
Not wanting to completely rip-off Clemson, but how cool would it be to move the Student Section to the grass hill only with overflow in the first few sections on either side of the stands nearest the scoreboard (see image, black box is new student sections). We could then move the Rock into the middle of the student section right below the scoreboard and have the players run down the middle of the student section onto the field. We need to get rid of the football helmet inflatable. It's tacky and my high school team did that.
Bad idea. Our student section stretching from endzone to endzone is who we are and makes us unique. You want to disengage 10k students? Relegate them to some of the worst seats in the house.
Build a 2 foot high student SRO platform along the wall of the stands on both sides. There isn't room for them to set down in the sections now, give them more places to stand.


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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by ComebackShack » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 pm

APPdiesel wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:21 pm
ComebackShack wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:24 am
Not wanting to completely rip-off Clemson, but how cool would it be to move the Student Section to the grass hill only with overflow in the first few sections on either side of the stands nearest the scoreboard (see image, black box is new student sections). We could then move the Rock into the middle of the student section right below the scoreboard and have the players run down the middle of the student section onto the field. We need to get rid of the football helmet inflatable. It's tacky and my high school team did that.
Bad idea. Our student section stretching from endzone to endzone is who we are and makes us unique. You want to disengage 10k students? Relegate them to some of the worst seats in the house.
When was the last time you sat in the student section? I graduated in May but still sit in the student section with some friends still in school. The student section (outside of maybe a couple hundred dedicated fans) are so disengaged with the game it isn't funny. During the Southern game, there was a group playing heads up, a mobile charades game on their phone sitting down on the bleachers. The girl behind us was debating leaving at halftime with a friend but they were trying to figure out the score before they left. It's a social party that just so happens to take place next to a football field.

If we made the students directly involved, ie. had the players run through the middle like Clemson, it would engage the students and create a really cool environment. Right now, our student section is spread out very thin across the entire stadium, push them all together and it will sound much louder. Besides, the seat thing shouldn't matter. It's free and we could charge a lot of money for the now vacated student section seats. A lot of schools with much less football culture than us have their student section as the endzone seats, ,most schools in fact. It's really cool because when a player scores, they can do a Lambeau leap of sorts or at least go and high 5 some of the people at the wall.

I think it's worth considering.


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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Yosef84 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:12 pm

JTApps1 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:01 pm
This summer I asked about seats in front of the North End Zone project, and I was told there are windows on field level that will look into the stadium so they were not going to have seats there. Now I don't know if that means temporary seats won't be added during the season, but they definitely weren't planning on permanent seats at that time. To me that is a mistake as we would be very limited on future expansion options with that building and the location of the video board.
I completely agree. It would be a HUGE mistake if they don't add seating in the North end of the stadium. I thought adding a significant number of seats there was a given.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:17 pm

bigCasu wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:28 am
Saint3333 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:02 pm
2k students in north endzone w/ 1k club seats on the 2nd tier. Sounds good to me, those are the two groups paying for the majority of any additions to the stadium. That should open up some east side seating to season ticket holders as well.

I’ve not seen anyone suggest we not add general seating other than the initial drawings.
And here lies my issue. The vast majority have been told, we are going ahead with a North EZ project, it will have club seating, a Yosef clubroom, other amenities, etc, and drawings confirm that, but we haven't seen seating other than club seating. I'd say it might be hard for the average fan to get excited about this new project if they know they will likely not be able to give and gain access to the new venue. Now that new seating may open up the stadium to others who might want to move a section over, up or down, but its hard to communicate that message.
I completely agree. We need to replace the temporary general seating with permanent general seating at the base of this project. I typically find myself near Doug or Brian during the bowl festivities and plan to pass my thoughts (for what they're worth) to them.



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Re: North End Zone Project Gets Green Light

Unread post by APPdiesel » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:27 pm

ComebackShack wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:05 pm
APPdiesel wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:21 pm
ComebackShack wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:24 am
Not wanting to completely rip-off Clemson, but how cool would it be to move the Student Section to the grass hill only with overflow in the first few sections on either side of the stands nearest the scoreboard (see image, black box is new student sections). We could then move the Rock into the middle of the student section right below the scoreboard and have the players run down the middle of the student section onto the field. We need to get rid of the football helmet inflatable. It's tacky and my high school team did that.
Bad idea. Our student section stretching from endzone to endzone is who we are and makes us unique. You want to disengage 10k students? Relegate them to some of the worst seats in the house.
When was the last time you sat in the student section? I graduated in May but still sit in the student section with some friends still in school. The student section (outside of maybe a couple hundred dedicated fans) are so disengaged with the game it isn't funny. During the Southern game, there was a group playing heads up, a mobile charades game on their phone sitting down on the bleachers. The girl behind us was debating leaving at halftime with a friend but they were trying to figure out the score before they left. It's a social party that just so happens to take place next to a football field.

If we made the students directly involved, ie. had the players run through the middle like Clemson, it would engage the students and create a really cool environment. Right now, our student section is spread out very thin across the entire stadium, push them all together and it will sound much louder. Besides, the seat thing shouldn't matter. It's free and we could charge a lot of money for the now vacated student section seats. A lot of schools with much less football culture than us have their student section as the endzone seats, ,most schools in fact. It's really cool because when a player scores, they can do a Lambeau leap of sorts or at least go and high 5 some of the people at the wall.

I think it's worth considering.
That sounds like a culture issue not a location issue. Moving them here or there isn't suddenly going to make them care more. As a media member I typically stay in the press box for the first half then make my way to the north endzone temporary bleachers for the 2nd where my friends go, and from there the students seem relatively engaged and loud although a lot do leave early. But like I said, that's a culture issue not a location issue. When I was a student my friends and I stayed all the way to the end, but there were plenty then who left early to go drink, plan parties, head home, whatever.

Also, Clemson has the exact same issue with students leaving early (unless it's a tight game vs a nationally ranked opponent).



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