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Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:18 am

PhillyApp1 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:42 am
HighPointApp wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm
GregPercussion wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:42 pm
Interesting article today from the App State chapter of the American Association of University Professors (AAUP) about athletics and their spending in regards to the HC situation and rising fees.

https://aaupappalachian.com/2018/12/12/ ... -the-bill/
This article sours my stomach. All that was missing were the phrases, "I need my safe space", "Words are hurtful", "patriarchy rules the world" etc, etc, etc, etc..........
Did you hear App State no longer has Fresh"men"...... its getting ridiculous
Why is this ridiculous? Languages change over time and as a male I don't feel the least bit threatened in my position in society by not having the word "man" in a compound word. If it does make others feel more included then I have not lost anything and the other person has gained a bit. That sounds like a winning situation to me. I don't see the problem. If others use this neologism then it will become over time the accepted term and life goes on, and if not then the word will die from lack of use.
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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by PhillyApp1 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:28 am

I really don't care ... its just stupid.... i guess we are Not Hu"mans" either?

Everyone has feelings but its getting ridiculous that we are being governed by the most sensitive or one mistake or ......

I know a special needs child who was disciplined for saying he was African american, when he was white, because he likes his African american friends in school but the African american kids didn't understand him..... i am 100% against hate but this is getting ridiculous.....

Can i say Merry Christmas?
Or will it offend someone?

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:33 am

PhillyApp1 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:42 am
HighPointApp wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm
GregPercussion wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:42 pm
Interesting article today from the App State chapter of the American Association of University Professors (AAUP) about athletics and their spending in regards to the HC situation and rising fees.

https://aaupappalachian.com/2018/12/12/ ... -the-bill/
This article sours my stomach. All that was missing were the phrases, "I need my safe space", "Words are hurtful", "patriarchy rules the world" etc, etc, etc, etc..........
Did you hear App State no longer has Fresh"men"...... its getting ridiculous
It is merely one professor. The Appalachian Student Newspaper wrote an article. It was copied verbatim by fox cable website without giving the student reporter any credit. TV picked it up as a partisan piece again without crediting the source. Not cool.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:40 am

The article pointed out to me that I have actually paid a TON more to AppState Athletics than I had realized. Over the last six years, I have paid over $25,000 to AppState Athletics via my YOSEF Club donations, season tickets and via paying the Athletics Fee for each of my four children. The bulk of this is the student athletics fee.

By the time the youngest two graduate, the total will be approaching $40,000. Obviously, I get the author's point. I fully support and donate to AppState Athletics but this is a shit ton of money.
Last edited by HighlandsApp on Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by appchicago » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:41 am

Aren't most schools moving to "first year" rather than "freshman" anyway? I remember 5 or 10 years ago people making a big deal about Chapel Hill making the change from "freshman" to "first-year."

I mean, it makes sense to me. It's more descriptive, and a lot of first-year students don't fit the traditional 18-year-old, just-graduated-high-school mold. I can't imagine getting bent out of shape about it one way or another.

But before this thread gets totally derailed and locked, I'll ask again, because I'm genuinely curious and the entire argument of the article hinges on this point, in my opinion: Are current App students truly paying twice as much in athletic fees than they were seven years ago?

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:42 am

Actually having a different word for humans would not bother me either.

The reality is that some people, a very few at that, would be offended by freshman and insist on freshomores. The people really being offended are the ones that are upset by the changes in vocabulary and want to make a big deal out of a very slight change in how society interacts. Some are acting like the language is changing so fast as it is incomprehensible, when very few things changing and nothing changing in a substantial way.

TL;DR I see more talk about this on what I would consider right-wing conservative media and how stupid this is in their view versus seeing much published in left-wing media in how this change is needed so badly to overcome discrimination.
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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:44 am

appchicago wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:41 am
Aren't most schools moving to "first year" rather than "freshman" anyway? I remember 5 or 10 years ago people making a big deal about Chapel Hill making the change from "freshman" to "first-year."

I mean, it makes sense to me. It's more descriptive, and a lot of first-year students don't fit the traditional 18-year-old, just-graduated-high-school mold. I can't imagine getting bent out of shape about it one way or another.

But before this thread gets totally derailed and locked, I'll ask again, because I'm genuinely curious and the entire argument of the article hinges on this point, in my opinion: Are current App students truly paying twice as much in athletic fees than they were seven years ago?
Yes, nobody uses those terms anymore.

I THINK that when my oldest who graduated in 2016 started in 2012 the athletic fee was about $475 per semester. It is now almost $800 per semester.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:46 am

PhillyApp1 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:28 am
I really don't care ... its just stupid.... i guess we are Not Hu"mans" either?

Everyone has feelings but its getting ridiculous that we are being governed by the most sensitive or one mistake or ......

I know a special needs child who was disciplined for saying he was African american, when he was white, because he likes his African american friends in school but the African american kids didn't understand him..... i am 100% against hate but this is getting ridiculous.....

Can i say Merry Christmas?
Or will it offend someone?
If course. That is silly. The only WAR on Christmas is a fabricated one on a certain cable TV entertainment channel. Stop being so offended.

It is quite clear to me that the people who are the most offended and terribly sensitive are the ones who call others out for not saying or doing something they way they think that it should be said or done.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by appchicago » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:56 am

HighlandsApp wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:44 am

I THINK that when my oldest who graduated in 2016 started in 2012 the athletic fee was about $475 per semester. It is now almost $800 per semester.
Per SEMESTER? Then to me, that's the crux of the discussion. Tuition and other fees have already skyrocketed since most of us were in school. We should find other ways to fund our entertainment. I highly doubt that 90% of App fans pay as much to support athletics as our current students do.

The article's author may not be on the same page as everyone here, but I think we can all agree that it's unfair to ask an 18-year-old who doesn't even attend sporting events to tack $1600 onto her student loans so that we can watch other 18-22-year-olds play football. That is, unless we are, at the very least, willing to match that kind of contribution. I know not everyone can afford that kind of support, but it's not like our students are in a better financial position, right?

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:47 am

HighlandsApp wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:40 am
The article pointed out to me that I have actually paid a TON more to AppState Athletics than I had realized. Over the last six years, I have paid over $25,000 to AppState Athletics via my YOSEF Club donations, season tickets and via paying the Athletics Fee for each of my four children. The bulk of this is the student athletics fee.

By the time the youngest two graduate, the total will be approaching $40,000. Obviously, I get the author's point. I fully support and donate to AppState Athletics but this is a shit ton of money.
I just appreciate the use of shit ton to describe the amount of money involved. :D
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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by McLeansvilleAppFan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:58 am

HighlandsApp wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:33 am
PhillyApp1 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:42 am
HighPointApp wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm
GregPercussion wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:42 pm
Interesting article today from the App State chapter of the American Association of University Professors (AAUP) about athletics and their spending in regards to the HC situation and rising fees.

https://aaupappalachian.com/2018/12/12/ ... -the-bill/
This article sours my stomach. All that was missing were the phrases, "I need my safe space", "Words are hurtful", "patriarchy rules the world" etc, etc, etc, etc..........
Did you hear App State no longer has Fresh"men"...... its getting ridiculous
It is merely one professor. The Appalachian Student Newspaper wrote an article. It was copied verbatim by fox cable website without giving the student reporter any credit. TV picked it up as a partisan piece again without crediting the source. Not cool.
A few decades ago I wrote a short article about a plant closing over NAFTA. It was going to be published in a small circulation religious magazine that supported labor. I was not getting paid for this and decided to post it on a small online discussion about labor and worker rights so it would get a few more reads. A few weeks later a pen-pal tells me he read my article in the Communist Party paper, Peoples Weekly World. They had lifted the article verbatim and tossed on a new by-line. I wrote them and never got any sort of apologize or even so much as a half-attempt at explaining why and what happened.

The point is one should really give people credit for their work, paid or not.
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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by moonshine » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:57 am

I'm offended that they want me to add an extra syllable by saying "freshomores". Guess I should go purchase myself an ESA letter at a 10% discount on certapet!

While I'm no fan of increasing fees on the backs of students, I imagine if the author were to turnover every rock in an institution's balance sheet, they could find plenty of waste. I speak to many freshman who are moving off campus and one of the biggest complaints I hear is how the school takes back their meal plan money if they don't use it all. At the end of every semester, you see students advertising $.50 on the $1 for others to purchase their meal cards. How much money do students waste annually by paying for a meal plan they don't zero out?

App's football program basically foots the bill for all athletic programs, which most likely includes the "revenue" sport men's b-ball. How would all these professors feel if the NCAA and schools did away with title IX and forced every sports program, male and female, to be self sufficient or risk geting cut? I'm not big on paying coaches millions of dollars even if App could afford it just like I get tired of hearing people gripe about their pay. In all my life, I have not once ever heard a teacher/professor say they got into teaching for the money.

Now lets pretend all spending waste were eliminated, who's to say the professors would see a bump in pay? From where I sit, if all waste could be eliminated, I'd prefer to see tuition/fees decrease over professors getting paid more to work 8-9 months a year.
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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by bcoach » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:23 pm

I didn't read the article. I have read others on the same subject. I think the student fees are a crock. When we the fans start paying an amount equal to what the students pay I may look at it differently. We can try and justify it any way we want but it boils down to this. The students are FORCED to pay for the recreation that we enjoy at a more than reasonable cost. If we don't want to go to games we just don't buy tickets. They do not have that choice. We want all kinds of things for the program but we don't want to pay for those things. So if I don't already have you ready to burn me at the stake let me say this. Student fees are a lot like many government programs. You can't afford what you want so we will get someone else to pay for it. For those that want to answer that you do pay that amount as we do, don't bother I know you do. What I am talking about is the majority of fans who are able to buy a cheap ticket by any standard and make no other contribution. The students are becoming our China (and others ) we are spending more than we make so turn to the students. One small difference. China gets paid back.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by moonshine » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:21 pm

bcoach wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:23 pm
The students are FORCED to pay for...
Title IX!

Fixed it for you :geek:

People always want to bash athletics and students paying for alums' recreation but what exactly are they paying for? Do you think if we did away with all sports except for football, that the football program would be self sufficient and not require student fees? Would students be ok with purchasing tickets to all athletic events they attend? Would they want to pay for intramural sports a la carte? How about a monthly gym membership at the SRC? As I understood it when I was in school, the "athletic fee" covered all of these things and more.

I'm not trying to knock Title IX but if we are being honest, that's basically what the student fees are paying for. Golf, tennis, field hockey, volleyball, baseball, track and basketball are not supporting themselves. It's student fees and revenue from football that help to keep all of these programs afloat.
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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:42 pm

Our football program doesn't keep anything afloat. Aside from basketball, most of our other athletic programs are very poorly funded with very few scholarship dollars available.

This isn't a Title IX problem, it's an arms race problem. Football and basketball coaches salaries and ever new facilities are a requirement to compete for the athletes needed to be successful.

Yes, the three and a half million dollars that we donate to the YOSEF Club are largely due to our desire and support of football. But I suspect that out football gate receipts, sponsorships even with the YC donations and all conference money do not equal what we actually spend on football.

Our Athletics Department budget is about $36mm and it is the student body that pays for aver 60% of the bill.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:44 pm

moonshine wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:21 pm
bcoach wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:23 pm
The students are FORCED to pay for...
Title IX!

Fixed it for you :geek:

People always want to bash athletics and students paying for alums' recreation but what exactly are they paying for? Do you think if we did away with all sports except for football, that the football program would be self sufficient and not require student fees? Would students be ok with purchasing tickets to all athletic events they attend? Would they want to pay for intramural sports a la carte? How about a monthly gym membership at the SRC? As I understood it when I was in school, the "athletic fee" covered all of these things and more.

I'm not trying to knock Title IX but if we are being honest, that's basically what the student fees are paying for. Golf, tennis, field hockey, volleyball, baseball, track and basketball are not supporting themselves. It's student fees and revenue from football that help to keep all of these programs afloat.
The athletic fee does not pay for SRC and any student recreation. There is another fee for that. The athletic fee only goes to the NCAA student athletics program.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by bcoach » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:03 pm

moonshine wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:21 pm
bcoach wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:23 pm
The students are FORCED to pay for...
Title IX!

Fixed it for you :geek:

People always want to bash athletics and students paying for alums' recreation but what exactly are they paying for? Do you think if we did away with all sports except for football, that the football program would be self sufficient and not require student fees? Would students be ok with purchasing tickets to all athletic events they attend? Would they want to pay for intramural sports a la carte? How about a monthly gym membership at the SRC? As I understood it when I was in school, the "athletic fee" covered all of these things and more.

I'm not trying to knock Title IX but if we are being honest, that's basically what the student fees are paying for. Golf, tennis, field hockey, volleyball, baseball, track and basketball are not supporting themselves. It's student fees and revenue from football that help to keep all of these programs afloat.
I don't believe that is the fix. Read comments following ours.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by Rekdiver » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:47 pm

Not to be ugly but send your kids to UNC or UNCG or NCSU or UNCW.. oh wait their costs are as much as ours....ok then go to the community college where there are no athletics. The article singles out App but they’ve done the same to other schools. It’s factual but taken out of context with the real world.

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by HighlandsApp » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:07 pm

I made a mistake in my calculations regarding Athletics Fee.

The Athletic Fee per SEMESTER for a first year 2018 student is $380.00
The Athletic Facilities Debt Payment Fee for 2018 student is $122.50

Total first year 2018 student fees to NCAA sanctioned athletics is $502.50 per semester and therefore $1,005 per year and if one finishes in 4 years they would have paid or borrowed $4,020 to fund athletics at AppState.

The total per semester to pay debt for new buildings and renovations is growing FAST and Furious. The building debt fees are now $317 per semester; $634 per year and $2,536 for a four year degree. It is sad that the NC General Assembly will not fund buildings and renovations. The Sanford Hall Renovation Debt Service Fee is $42.00 per semester.

The biggest ripoff is the General Assembly mandated BCBS Health Insurance of $1,294 per SEMESTER. How on earth can a special insurance pool of primarily 18 to 22 year old persons cost $ 2,600 per year? This fee is waived IF the student is covered by other health insurance.

I stated earlier that I had paid a shit ton toward AppState athletics via student athletics fees, YOSEF donations and tickets but I over calculated. It is about $17k over the last 6 years and will be $28k by the time the last one graduates.

I think that fans need to recognize and appreciate that the students are paying the bulk of the bill. IF student $$$ showed up in YOSEF Club points rankings I would fall in my ranking position.

Go! Fight! Win App!

See long list of fees:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jMQ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Article: App State Athletics Loses Money, Sends Students the Bill

Unread post by bcoach » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:23 pm

Rekdiver wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:47 pm
Not to be ugly but send your kids to UNC or UNCG or NCSU or UNCW.. oh wait their costs are as much as ours....ok then go to the community college where there are no athletics. The article singles out App but they’ve done the same to other schools. It’s factual but taken out of context with the real world.
Also not to be ugly. Send your kids to another school is not an answer. I don't really care about the other schools. What I care about is ours. Our fans are not carrying their weight they are laying it on the backs of the students and their parents. Our fans have a great deal, way too great a deal. We should not be able to spend way more than we have and then just TAX the students and their parents. They have absolutely no say they just have to pay. We on here want all these things for the department but we expect someone else to pay for it. "The other schools do it" is not an answer. Remember when mom asked if you would jump off the bridge if your friends did? Please know I mean this as discussion not argument. We fans need to be supporting our own demands.

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