End of Women’s Sports

[AtlAppMan]

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/wh ... ens-title/

[Stonewall]

This will solve a lot of problems , no more separate men's or women's teams .No more separate , duplicated facilities .One team in each sport and we can finally fully fund scholarships!

[Gonzo]

[appstate24]

Hilarious!

[AtlAppMan]

It's the Crying Game all over again.

But, seriously this is the end of women's sports. Same reason they don't have 18 year old boys playing little league.

[appst89]

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/05/wh ... ens-title/

Same thing also just happened in the Connecticut high school girl's T&F championships. The top two finishers in every sprint event were boys.

[t4pizza]

The sky is not falling and this is not the end of women's sports. Does anyone really think that suddenly there is going to be an upswing of MTF Trans operations just so that these women can now excel at sports? And that that upswing will be of sufficient numbers to fill all women's sports teams from a recreational level through to the professional levels? Of course not. This is a limited situation and will have limited impact. Personally, I am glad we now live in a society where someone can have the freedom to express who they are and be accepted. For far too long our society has marginalized these people and made them feel like outcasts. It is hard enough to be different, and it just compounds the issues when the entire society shuns and shames you for being different. I realize there are plenty on this board that aren't comfortable with these sentiments, and I mean no disrespect, but everyone should be able to be who they are (as long as it doesn't hurt others) without being treated like a pariah.

[Gonzo]

I think there is a massive middle ground between marginalizing trans people and letting (biological) men compete in women's sports.

"as long as it doesn't hurt others" is the key. This clearly hurts others.

I do agree that there are only a few examples of this happening all around the world and this isn't any real threat to women's sports as a whole. It isn't the "end of women's sports."

[t4pizza]

I would be interested to hear the perspective of the other competitors. I read a similar story in the past and the runner up wasn't upset at all and in fact was proud to have raced. That article helped open my eyes on some of these issues. It is really easy as a 48 year old white male (me) to have ideas and thoughts about what hurts others when I truthfully have no idea because I haven't walked in their shoes and don't understand their struggles. I am just glad the world is becoming a more accepting and tolerant place to live.

[Yosef84]

The sky is not falling and this is not the end of women's sports. Does anyone really think that suddenly there is going to be an upswing of MTF Trans operations just so that these women can now excel at sports? And that that upswing will be of sufficient numbers to fill all women's sports teams from a recreational level through to the professional levels? Of course not. This is a limited situation and will have limited impact. Personally, I am glad we now live in a society where someone can have the freedom to express who they are and be accepted. For far too long our society has marginalized these people and made them feel like outcasts. It is hard enough to be different, and it just compounds the issues when the entire society shuns and shames you for being different. I realize there are plenty on this board that aren't comfortable with these sentiments, and I mean no disrespect, but everyone should be able to be who they are (as long as it doesn't hurt others) without being treated like a pariah.

I agree with everything you say above and completely support a person's right to express themselves in the manner they wish. That said, I have a problem agreeing with the decision to allow a MTF transgender to compete for championships against women. No, it isn't the "end of women's sports" but it doesn't create a situation where specific athletes have an unfair advantage. I honestly don't have an answer, because I think they should be allowed the opportunity to compete, or at least participate but l don't know how that happens on a fair basis.

[AtlAppMan]

It's a slippery slope. However, based on the trend it will end up being any male that wants to compete with females will just claim the identity of the day and everybody will roll over and let them compete. There is a reason the rules were in place and this is breaking the rules. Why don't we just let athletes take steroids again, Oh that presented an unfair competitive edge. What's the difference?

[Mjohn1988]

I have sympathy for anyone who’s confused about their gender. But, I also have a daughter and she’s not full of testosterone and shouldn’t have to compete physicals with anyone who is full of testosterone. It’s just not right.

[Yosef84]

I'm sure that most competitors would at least try to be good sports about the competition but in today's environment, you could hardly complain publicly without being labeled as a "hater." Especially at higher levels like national competition, I find it hard to imagine an athlete who had trained her entire life only to come in second to a newly transitioned female wouldn't have a bit of a resentment. I agree it would be interesting to collect input from competitors, but maybe in an anonymous survey so they could provide opinions without pressure to be PC.

[Appstate88]

This is crazy...Not a fan of accommodating if it hurts others chances of competing...

Just keep Men's Sports for Men, Women's Sports for Women. If a University or NCAA really feels it can't just say no then add a Transgender Sports category for the Transgender to accommodate their desires for athletic competition.

Bottom line: All athletes must compete on a level playing field. The women’s 400-meter hurdles national title at the 2019 NCAA Division II Outdoor Track & Field Championships was not conducted on a level playing field.

[hapapp]

A different perspective:
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/04/04/t ... r-compete/

[appdaze]

Its a lot easier to try to say there is nothing wrong with the competition level when it is something like track and field. One day, and it will happen, one day there will be a 7 footer that goes through the trans process and joins the WNBA. What then? What woman could naturally stop them? There have only been a small number of 7 foot women in prob ball and I doubt any of them could physically hold up to a trans man. Changing the T levels doesn't change bone structure. It doesn't change the size of their hands and feet. While the therapy does lower the overall strength of the person it still leaves a number of physical advantages of biological women. Imagine Shaq going through the process. He would lose some strength and be required to work out more to maintain what he keeps but he would still be Shaq. I would be my life savings he could go through that process and still rip down a backboard. Same applies in high school. What happens when that 7 foot high schools transitions to female? 4 straight state championships? Because that is equal and fair to the other girls?

In every day life I say go for it if that is what you desire or you feel that is your proper place in the world. In this nation I completely believe you have that right. In the athletic world you have to keep the playing field equal for biological women because honestly thats what always gets crapped on. What about equality for biological women? What about women's rights? Do they deserved to be trampled on so that MT's can have their way?

As far as other athletes saying they don't mind coming in second thats all political talk. Very few athletes would come out and say they were against it because they know the hatred they would face. Loss of sponsorship, loss of potential earnings or team spots, the social media world would crucify them. Freedom of speech is not quite what it once was. It still exists but the world of social media has changed it forever. Many athletes are afraid to speak up. Those that do are forever burned regardless of right or wrongness of their views. If you have any questions about the ramifications of speaking up about issues ask Kaepernick how that helped his career.

This is a free nation. I will always support someone's freedoms to be who they want to be until it interferes and hinders someone else's freedoms. This hinders the equality of biological women even if its only a few instances. I have a feeling people would feel differently sitting there in the stands watching their own daughter get the second place medal standing next to the gold metal MT. Its always easier to beat the drum when it doesn't affect you directly.

[CheckYosef94]

A different perspective:
https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/ ... ts-speaks/

[Stonewall]

The last chromosome pair , either x x or x y , determines sex, as I recall.I don’t think it’s more complicated than that.

[Yosef84]

The arguments stated in that article are pretty circular. They seem to basically say that the law recognizes them legally as women/men and they've been allowed to compete since 2003 so any argument against them competing is transphobic. Sorry but that doesn't even address the issue of whether there is an unfair advantage. I would not deny their legal status or their right to be treated with dignity and respect. I just don't believe competing at the NCAA level is a right. It hasn't been an issue so far because there haven't been frequent instances of elite athletes transitioning. Can you imagine if Bruce Jenner had decided to transition immediately after the 1976 Olympics and decided to compete in the 1980 Women's Heptathlon? Would that have been fair? As society becomes more accepting of the transgender issue, these instances will likely increase. I don't think it spells the end of women's athletics, but I do think some decisions need to be made.

[appstatealum]

The last chromosome pair , either x x or x y , determines sex, as I recall.I don’t think it’s more complicated than that.

Correct. Not to get in the politics of it, but aren’t we just confusing these kids more if we let them choose how to identify?

This world is starting to make me really exhausted.....