ASU, Boone, conservancy discuss Boone Creek daylighting proposal

[APPdiesel]

There are some really crappy buildings along Howard Street between campus and Depot St, the University should (if they haven't already) try to buy some of that property. Imagine Jimmy Smith Paaaaark being part of campus.

[John-N-Houston]

Lots of things can be done to mitigate flooding. Permeable asphalt, pavers, stormwater detention systems can all be installed to reduce runoff and slow down flooding. App does none of those things. This is not App being green, they have had plenty of opportunities to do that and have not; this is the Town of Boone pushing to put a parking deck up. Since the one at the site of the proposed hotel (formerly student housing with parking deck; corner of King and Waters St) fell through, they are scrambling to find some place to put one. Town tax payers are going to foot a large part of the bill for a "public" parking deck that will consist of mostly ASU students, just like the spots on King st are. It cannot be avoided, there is no way to verify legitimate ASU student shopping on King St or going to class, and this will be no different.
The day-lighting of the stream is a way to sell this to the community. It may have a small benefit to some buildings on campus in the immediate area, but the majority of water and associated flooding comes downstream of this project and the benefits to the large majority of campus and Boone as a whole will be very slim.
I know parking lots are unattractive, and you can say games only impact 6 days a year; but I really think we are underestimating the impact App State football has on this university and the whole community, and the game day atmosphere is a HUGE part of that. Continuing to replace 1000 spot parking lots with parking decks where only 200 spots are in the sunshine will have an adverse impact on tailgating and could hurt ticket sales, which is the lifeblood of the program.
It also seems like a bad idea to expand the floodplain in an area that is a main connector for the east and west side of campus, a walkway for many students going from Walker to Raley, and the main hub for Appalcarts.
If the Town and ASU where really wanting to be proactive and help flooding in the whole town, they would have developed a fund to either increase pipe diameters or day -light the stream along that whole area to alleviate flooding. This is a drop in the bucket (no pun intended) to the flooding issues just on this one stream.

The flood plain will be the flood plain based on the amount of water needed to find a place to go. Daylighting the creek will help with water quality, and make this area orders of magnitude more beautiful in my estimation. It could hurt tailgating but there are many more positives that are important 358 other days each year.

Incorrect. Daylighting, unless they are creating a very deep channel, will have to expand the width of the floodplain. That is the point of creating the green space; that will be a storage area for flood waters much like Durham park is.
Otherwise, this project wouldn’t alleviate flooding at all.

Nature determines the floodplain. Engineers can try to estimate the extent of excess water flow based on historical weather data, existing and proposed upstream development, existing and proposed detention AND retention ponds and the conditions within the floodplain that either promote or inhibit water flow. Any “reasonably” sized pipe would quickly be overwhelmed by a 500 year flood.

Two years ago I evacuated my home in what some people called a 10,000 year flood. I have my doubts that that was a correct assessment, but I have no doubt that major floods are occurring at an alarmingly increasing rate. Do not take these proposals lightly. A cavalier attitude now could prove dangerous in the near future.

I deal with flood plain management on a regular basis. It is true that flooding events are occurring more frequently and with more severity.
If you are from Houston, as your screen name indicates, Harvey was absolutely a 10,000 year storm, or a biblical storm. Houston prides itself on not having zoning regulations and letting developers do what they want with little or no restrictions. That includes building in designated flood plains, replacing all grassed areas with concrete and asphalt with no detention or storm water measures. Add this in with over 4 feet of rain, you are going to get a disaster.
If you force a certain amount of water through a limited amount pipe, it will have to back up and flood somewhere, but removing that pipe and day-lighting the stream at that area will most certainly increase the flood plain width at this area. It will alleviate some flooding at some point up stream, but the width of the plain will be expanded (although somewhat more controlled) in this area.
It will require a map amendment to FEMA’s flood maps for this revision.
Again, it may slightly improve a small area around and just upstream of the project, but without doing an entire section of this creek, the benefits aren’t that substantial. Again, this is just a small facet of the actual project which is the construction of the parking deck

The Rock,
(To all: apologies for the long reply.)

Thanks for the comments, but I must correct a couple of common misconception about Houston. First, allow me to provide a little history about myself. I was a double major in college; architecture and geography with an emphasis on city planning. I have been a registered architect since 1980 and have lived in Houston since 1982. I have worked closely with civil engineers and flood control officials on a regular basis for over 40 years and, as such, have been responsible for compliance with all flood control regulations on each of my “ground-up” projects.

Yes, Houston does not have zoning, per se, but construction is controlled by Building Codes and by deed restrictions which are strictly enforced by the city building officials and by planning regulations. “Zoning” is taken care of by a concept referred to as “highest and best use”. In other words, if you build something that is completely out of character with its surroundings, (not the best use) the project will be doomed to failure and the developer will be sued out of business by his or her very angry neighbors. I am not saying that Houston is without problems, but “sprawl”, which was a result of having an abundance of cheep, undeveloped land surrounding the city, resulted in a low density population which means that our mass-transit system is pretty much useless. “Blight” is, mainly, a result of useless regulations on signage. These are the two most noted “problems” cited by people who have never been to the city.

Equating zoning with flood control regulations is a mistake as is thinking that Houston has no flood control regulations. Harris County Flood Control District, which has jurisdiction over the City of Houston, has very strict regulations which, in my opinion, are the most restrictive of any metropolitan area in the country and I have projects in many, if not most, large cities around the country. One can hardly drive for more than a few blocks in Houston without seeing major engineered flood control facilities. Actually, if you know what you are looking for, you will be able to spot flood control measures in every block.

You made another misstatement when you said
that Houston allows replacing grassed areas with concrete with no mitigating measures. In fact, all (ALL) new construction is required to account for every square foot of impervious area by providing one or more methods of flood water mitigation. Those means include, among others, retention/detention ponds and/or onsite storage which holds the water until It can be properly metered into the flood control system. These flood control measures are strictly enforced and for good reason. Houston’s flooding problems are primarily caused by the very flat, very low-lying terrain (thus a very slow rate of runoff) which happens to be located in the water-sheads of central Texas that include San Antonio and Austin by way of the Brazos River, the Trinity River and other waterways making their way to the Gulf.

With regard to “building in flood plains”, first you must discern the difference in a “flood plain” and a “flood way”. They are similar, but two different things and the regulations are different for each.

It’s very difficult for me to place blame on you for your lack of understanding of Houston’s flood issues. Each time we have a flood event I hear national news outlets saying all the things that you said. As an aside, I have been “lucky” enough to have experienced three typhoons, four hurricanes and numerous tropical storms.

I still stand by my previous point; a cavalier attitude toward flood issues now can be very difficult to deal with in the future.

[WASU 93]

trying to kill another prime tailgating spot by removing a lot and putting up a deck. There will be nowhere in sunshine to tailgate in 5 years.

As much as I disliked getting moved from Library Deck this year, we’re really enjoying Legends. Instead of parking in the main lot+ we head to the upper lots behind Doughton and tailgate under the trees. Plus, the upper lot doesn’t fill up (don’t tell anyone) and we have plenty of space.

Totally different experience from being in the center of the action in the grass beside Library, but it’s working.

[The Rock]

Without quoting several long posts, I am responding to John-n-Houston.

Obviously I am not familiar with the inner workings of Houston local government. I will say if they rely on building code to dictate food plain regulation you are behind the curve.
NC building code requires buildings in the AE zone only to be built at base flood elevation. Whereas a flood prone place such as Houston should be looking at a 2-4’ freeboard to plan for future storms.
In any event, the floods that affect Boone are much different than Houston as they are a flash, quick to rise and quick to dissipate event.
I fully understand and regulate flood plain safety on a daily basis, and am in no way cavalier towards the subject, but not seeing how this project is really benefiting the community as a whole, and question the safety of daylighting a steam that is in the middle of campus in a highly used pedestrian area.

[The Rock]

There are some really crappy buildings along Howard Street between campus and Depot St, the University should (if they haven't already) try to buy some of that property. Imagine Jimmy Smith Paaaaark being part of campus.

Exactly. I would be much more in favor of this project if the town and university partnered and bought all of these properties and removed the buildings that are repetitive insurance losses, driving up the cost of flood insurance for the whole town, and daylighted that whole stretch. That would be a much better overall project that would potentially help out a much greater area.

[GregPercussion]

There are some really crappy buildings along Howard Street between campus and Depot St, the University should (if they haven't already) try to buy some of that property. Imagine Jimmy Smith Paaaaark being part of campus.

Exactly. I would be much more in favor of this project if the town and university partnered and bought all of these properties and removed the buildings that are repetitive insurance losses, driving up the cost of flood insurance for the whole town, and daylighted that whole stretch. That would be a much better overall project that would potentially help out a much greater area.

It's just a fight with the town of Boone. Appalachian wants the space, but it's gotta pay a pretty penny for it. It's similar to the old WHS property: Boone wants to sell, but they need to come to the right deal.

[APPdiesel]

Ugh. The university is the town's cash cow yet they still try to gouge us whenever possible.

[appchicago]

It's just a fight with the town of Boone. Appalachian wants the space, but it's gotta pay a pretty penny for it. It's similar to the old WHS property: Boone wants to sell, but they need to come to the right deal.

The town owns those properties along Howard?

[T-Dog]

The town is revitalizing Howard Street in the near future.

https://www.wataugademocrat.com/news/to ... 79eba.html

One of the building along Howard Street in the picture above is becoming a restaurant in the near future.

Also, the town is looking to designate the whole downtown area as a historical district, so any new/renovated buildings would have to go through a certificate of appropriateness process.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Without quoting several long posts, I am responding to John-n-Houston.

Obviously I am not familiar with the inner workings of Houston local government. I will say if they rely on building code to dictate food plain regulation you are behind the curve.
NC building code requires buildings in the AE zone only to be built at base flood elevation. Whereas a flood prone place such as Houston should be looking at a 2-4’ freeboard to plan for future storms.
In any event, the floods that affect Boone are much different than Houston as they are a flash, quick to rise and quick to dissipate event.
I fully understand and regulate flood plain safety on a daily basis, and am in no way cavalier towards the subject, but not seeing how this project is really benefiting the community as a whole, and question the safety of daylighting a steam that is in the middle of campus in a highly used pedestrian area.

How likely is anything going to be living in the creeks that are devoid of sunlight. How healthy is the ecosystem. That even more than flooding is my concern, though I prefer to not have the flooding. Has anyone, that was not being overly stupid, been hurt from the area around the old baseball field that was daylighted?

I would like to pick your brain at some point. Would you mind a PM about some of this. I am thinking about my Earth/Environmental class in the spring. I would also like to learn more about all of this.

[The Rock]

Without quoting several long posts, I am responding to John-n-Houston.

Obviously I am not familiar with the inner workings of Houston local government. I will say if they rely on building code to dictate food plain regulation you are behind the curve.
NC building code requires buildings in the AE zone only to be built at base flood elevation. Whereas a flood prone place such as Houston should be looking at a 2-4’ freeboard to plan for future storms.
In any event, the floods that affect Boone are much different than Houston as they are a flash, quick to rise and quick to dissipate event.
I fully understand and regulate flood plain safety on a daily basis, and am in no way cavalier towards the subject, but not seeing how this project is really benefiting the community as a whole, and question the safety of daylighting a steam that is in the middle of campus in a highly used pedestrian area.

How likely is anything going to be living in the creeks that are devoid of sunlight. How healthy is the ecosystem. That even more than flooding is my concern, though I prefer to not have the flooding. Has anyone, that was not being overly stupid, been hurt from the area around the old baseball field that was daylighted?

I would like to pick your brain at some point. Would you mind a PM about some of this. I am thinking about my Earth/Environmental class in the spring. I would also like to learn more about all of this.

Not necessarily due to a flooding event, I don’t think, but a student was found in the creek in Durham park just a few years ago.

Send me a PM any time. Be happy to help if I can.