From Inside KBS

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From Inside KBS

Unread post by ASU » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:20 am

I'm one of the employees that went through the revolving door of the App State athletic department not too long ago. I still follow along and root for App, and I didn't leave under bad terms. I read a lot of stuff on here in my time employed by App and even after I left, and I have some knowledge that may be a little dose of reality for some, or insightful to others, so I figured I'd share. So here goes-

DG is as good of an AD that App could ever have. His accolades speak for themselves, and I enjoyed him for the most part. He's in a tough spot because there's not a lot of money to go around, and some of the members of his administration team are head scratching.

App needs money. Simple as that. Scholarships in all sports aren't fully funded, which is a huge disadvantage. App wants to do good stuff but the money just isn't there, so a lot of what is done gets done halfway.

A move to the American isn't going to happen. There's no major media market and other than football, nothing is at a level that's even close. You can try the "Tri Cities is a Top xx market", or the "We're part of Charlotte" pitch, but I don't think the AAC cares. CUSA almost looks like a better bet, and keep in mind, the winner of the SBC got to play the second place team from CUSA in the bowl game...

The employee turnover is a huge problem, and it goes beyond money. Sure, App doesn't pay great, but the reasons people are leaving go far beyond money. The department doesn't do exit interviews, so the same issues occur over and over. Many employees are treated like shit, which leads to them looking for better opportunities. The high cost of living and remoteness of Boone make it tough on staff too. I think most of those that left liked Boone, just not their situation at App.

The administration reads this board. Regularly. And they're petrified of a vocal minority coming forward, especially from here. If you want something changed, rally your friends on here.

Glad I was able to get all that off my chest :D



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by Appstate88 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:00 pm

Thanks for coming forward and sharing.

Hope everyone has a great 2020 and will consider giving DG more Yosef Club money to get it done better than halfway.

Let’s give our all, as it is Great to be a Mountaineer!



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by Rekdiver » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:32 pm

I find incredible that HR has no exit interview policy for Athletics and administration. IfDG has people under him treating people like crap he needs to know it



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by spacemonkey » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:41 pm

I doubt this ASU guy is real but out of everything ASU said ....conf USA is not a better option. ESPN is about to put together a bowl coalition and it is going to stop a top 20 team playing a second place conf USA. We can accomplish anything we want to accomplish in the Sunbelt. If a regional realignment happens we will be better off. As far as Markets, ours is as good as ECU’s and they are in the AAC.

Our fight is with the NCBOT....they are holding us back more than any conference affiliation.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:43 pm

ASU wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:20 am
I'm one of the employees that went through the revolving door of the App State athletic department not too long ago. I still follow along and root for App, and I didn't leave under bad terms. I read a lot of stuff on here in my time employed by App and even after I left, and I have some knowledge that may be a little dose of reality for some, or insightful to others, so I figured I'd share. So here goes-

DG is as good of an AD that App could ever have. His accolades speak for themselves, and I enjoyed him for the most part. He's in a tough spot because there's not a lot of money to go around, and some of the members of his administration team are head scratching.

App needs money. Simple as that. Scholarships in all sports aren't fully funded, which is a huge disadvantage. App wants to do good stuff but the money just isn't there, so a lot of what is done gets done halfway.

A move to the American isn't going to happen. There's no major media market and other than football, nothing is at a level that's even close. You can try the "Tri Cities is a Top xx market", or the "We're part of Charlotte" pitch, but I don't think the AAC cares. CUSA almost looks like a better bet, and keep in mind, the winner of the SBC got to play the second place team from CUSA in the bowl game...

The employee turnover is a huge problem, and it goes beyond money. Sure, App doesn't pay great, but the reasons people are leaving go far beyond money. The department doesn't do exit interviews, so the same issues occur over and over. Many employees are treated like shit, which leads to them looking for better opportunities. The high cost of living and remoteness of Boone make it tough on staff too. I think most of those that left liked Boone, just not their situation at App.

The administration reads this board. Regularly. And they're petrified of a vocal minority coming forward, especially from here. If you want something changed, rally your friends on here.

Glad I was able to get all that off my chest :D
Thank you! I remember telling on here that coaches, players, and our administration reads this board. A couple people told me nothing said on here would matter because those folks don't read. They read heavily. They may not put stock into our opinions but they see them and they are discussed among employees. I have been on campus and heard them.

One thing I disagree with is that we can't get in the AAC. We spoil their NY6 1-2 times and stay ranked in the top 25 and I would think they want us when they lose 2 of their football powers.

Not having exit interviews is a huge problem. That needs to change.

I think most of us know that money is an issue. It just sucks the NC board won't give us more.

Glad you liked Gillin. Did you like our coaching staff and did you deal with Drink or Satt a lot? Any preference between those two? My guess is Satt was better to work with.

Could you tell us what issues you thought were the biggest? I have always felt that our culture for football is great but elsewhere it probably is not. For example I don't see why Troy Heustess is still employed by the school. We have had some of the most useless employees ever while also having some of the best on campus.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:46 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:41 pm
I doubt this ASU guy is real but out of everything ASU said ....conf USA is not a better option. ESPN is about to put together a bowl coalition and it is going to stop a top 20 team playing a second place conf USA. We can accomplish anything we want to accomplish in the Sunbelt. If a regional realignment happens we will be better off. As far as Markets, ours is as good as ECU’s and they are in the AAC.

Our fight is with the NCBOT....they are holding us back more than any conference affiliation.
I think they mean CUSA is a better option like it is more likely for us. The AAC is our goal and should be. It will help us with so much. I know once we go and see the benefits that those who were saying they are happy with the SBC will be happy we went. The exact same thing that has happened with those who wanted us to stay in the SoCon.

The NCBOT is definitely holding us back.
Last edited by AppStFan1 on Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by Stonewall » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:19 pm

There is no NCBOT. There is an App State BOT and a UNC Board Of Governors (UNCBOG) .The NC General Assembly funds the UNC system ,the UNCBOG divides up the money for the most part although some capital projects are direct appropriations. Our per student dollar allocation is 15th out of 16 as I recall. Our performance is rated number 3 by most metrics. I interpret this as App having the highest return on investment in the system.This lack of funding is a huge obstacle past ,present ,and future. However this primarily affects academics, not athletics.Vastly so. Our issue there is a lack of donor base,corporate sponsorships etc. It’s improving but we frankly had no strategy for years .That has changed but it’s an uphill struggle.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by canes_mj » Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:27 pm

ASU wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:20 am


The administration reads this board. Regularly. And they're petrified of a vocal minority coming forward, especially from here. If you want something changed, rally your friends on here.
Interesting comments and your post was a good read. But can you elaborate specifically on this part of your post a little bit more? What exactly are they petrified of?



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by appstatealum » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:32 pm

ASU wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:20 am
App needs money. Simple as that. Scholarships in all sports aren't fully funded, which is a huge disadvantage. App wants to do good stuff but the money just isn't there, so a lot of what is done gets done halfway.

A move to the American isn't going to happen. There's no major media market and other than football, nothing is at a level that's even close. You can try the "Tri Cities is a Top xx market", or the "We're part of Charlotte" pitch, but I don't think the AAC cares. CUSA almost looks like a better bet, and keep in mind, the winner of the SBC got to play the second place team from CUSA in the bowl game...

Glad I was able to get all that off my chest :D
Others may question your validity, but from things I've heard from people that matter, you are right. In fact, things were extremely tough/rocky this year with the projects going on and there was a reason Doug was being courted...

I'm not sure about the AAC comment, it would definitely be an uphill battle, but football is what drives the money bus and we have a lot to offer there. I've talked to Doug about this very thing, and he made it clear that the AAC was a goal he was striving for. I made some snide remarks about our basketball holding us back, and he responded with a snicker. This was before we picked up Kerns.

The whole NCBOG thing is hurting us, because if we had more funding for our academics, I feel like we would in turn get some "bigger" Alumni who would get higher profile jobs and therefore be willing to donate more for Athletics. Like has been said, we all need to donate what we can to Yosef. I'm not a huge donor, but have given more and more as I can afford and have always budgeted to buy season tickets for my family.

App has never been handed anything, yet we always exceed expectations. It's what makes our culture special. I turned down other in state schools to go to App and value my two business degrees. I've had more professional success than many of my friends who went to other schools and I credit it to the culture I adopted in Boone. App is a special place and our ceiling is high. We just need to keep fighting and kick ass.


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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by ASU » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:06 pm

Doug is going to gun for the AAC, as he should, but its a tough sell. Other than football, nothing else competes at that level. Hopefully Kerns can turn the program around (and stay more than a year or two), but I think attendance will always lag. Football and men's basketball drive a lot of the movement, but there's more to it. When the floodgates open to conference realignment again, I'd love to see App there, but I think the odds are certainly against it. Anyone know why Rutgers or Maryland is in the Big Ten? Spoiler alert- it's not their success in football... or women's soccer.

In regards to admin reading the board, they're scared to make people angry. They fear the angry mob that includes someone with money that would stop donating or send them angry emails that they have to deal with.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by /\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:39 pm

Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by Apple@chin1 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:29 pm

I can’t believe that you signed up yesterday and the username ASU was still available!



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:43 pm

ASU wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:06 pm
Doug is going to gun for the AAC, as he should, but its a tough sell. Other than football, nothing else competes at that level. Hopefully Kerns can turn the program around (and stay more than a year or two), but I think attendance will always lag. Football and men's basketball drive a lot of the movement, but there's more to it. When the floodgates open to conference realignment again, I'd love to see App there, but I think the odds are certainly against it. Anyone know why Rutgers or Maryland is in the Big Ten? Spoiler alert- it's not their success in football... or women's soccer.

In regards to admin reading the board, they're scared to make people angry. They fear the angry mob that includes someone with money that would stop donating or send them angry emails that they have to deal with.
Maybe it is time those who care about the program and not just themselves for selfish reasons stand up.

As for the AAC stuff I agree we need to be better at basketball and other sports. The AAC would like to see a well rounded program and we can get there but definitely need more money to truly grow like we want.

Has there ever been any talk of dropping some sports? I would be willing to get rid of a couple men's and women's sports who never win and use that money to go towards baseball, basketball, football, etc.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by WASU 93 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:52 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:39 pm
Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.
Now, is the time for a really solid Marketing and Promotions Team to be formed.

Football, our stock is as high as it's ever been. I know DG's not a fan of mini-plans, but there's a need. Give full season-ticket holders a decent discount and the best parking. Put together two or three game mini plans that allow busier families to get up the mountain and have consistent seats and parking. Encourage tailgating and provide some in-stadium perks (concession deals), family four-packs, etc. Also, put together a in-stadium, media, digital package that is attractive to ASU friendly businesses off-mountain. Build off the momentum that we have.

Basketball. Kerns is building momentum. The Sun Belt's schedule is actually smart, with Saturday conference games. Put packages together that combine a Saturday basketball game with a night on the mountain and skiing/sledding for a family.

Per the 2017 Knight Commission Report:
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... ion_data-1

Appalachian State had $35.06M in revenue (vs. $35.07M in expenses)
$11.81M (34%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$9.45M (27%) in Institutional/Government Support
$4.47M (12.75%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$2.92M (8%) in Donor Contributions
$2.49M (7%) in Ticket Sales
$1.89M (5%) in Competition Guarantees
$1.13M (3%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$0.9M (3%) in other Revenues

Hence, if we could add $500K in Ticket Sales, $1M in Donor Contributions and $500K in Corporate Sponsorships and Advertising it would really make a difference.

And, by the way to show the comparison vs. a P5 School.

NC State had $83.74M in Revenue (vs. $86.92M in Expenses)
$6.55M (8%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$0.0M (0%) in Institutional/Government Support
$32.24M (39%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$15.08M (18%) in Donor Contributions
$21.22M (25%) in Ticket Sales
$0.2M (0%) in Competition Guarantees
$4.47M (5%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$3.98M (5%) in other Revenues

App State pays $5.92M (17% of Expenses) to Coaching Compensation and $4.3M (12% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. $590K goes to recruiting.
NC State pays 17.36M (20% of their Expenses to Coaching Compensation and $15.81M (18% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. They spend $1.97M on Recruiting.

UNC-Chapel Hill had $96.55M in Revenue and $96.54M in Expenses. Their Coaching Compensation, Support and Admin Compensation and Recruiting numbers are similar to NC State.

The University of South Carolina had $136.03M in Revenue and $129.32M in Expenses.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:54 pm

/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:39 pm
Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.
Did you read the thread about his contract? I mentioned that it was very low and I felt his bonus money and base salary just looked way lower than I thought he would get but some were like why can't I just be happy for him if he is happy.

I would like to know where the buyout money from Missouri is going? Did Shawn decline a higher salary so he could combine that with the buyout money and pay assistants more? Did it all go to Gillin or to expansion? I figured with that added money that we would give Clark a much better contract. He deserves it for his loyalty.

If we are paying all we can afford right now then yes money is very tight. There are a couple jobs on staff that I heard the salaries and I laughed. I love football and we have jobs on our staff that I would not do for the money they pay with the cost of living in Boone. I get why some of our coaches built houses in the past or why nobody stays. Boone is a great place to be and I love Appalachian but the salaries some make is a real joke. Every single coach, director of football operations, equipment people, assistant, player personnel, recruiting, etc all should be making 100k or more and I don't think any of the support staff does beyond the HC, position coaches, and strength coach. I need to look them up because I'm not 100% sure that our S&C is paid more than 100k. They should be making more like 200k and I know there is no way we are paying that. A top 20 football team in the country should pay like they are one but we just can't do it. Some things have to change. That much I know.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppStFan1 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:55 pm

WASU 93 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:52 pm
/\PP ST/\TE GRAD 09 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:39 pm
Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.
Now, is the time for a really solid Marketing and Promotions Team to be formed.

Football, our stock is as high as it's ever been. I know DG's not a fan of mini-plans, but there's a need. Give full season-ticket holders a decent discount and the best parking. Put together two or three game mini plans that allow busier families to get up the mountain and have consistent seats and parking. Encourage tailgating and provide some in-stadium perks (concession deals), family four-packs, etc. Also, put together a in-stadium, media, digital package that is attractive to ASU friendly businesses off-mountain. Build off the momentum that we have.

Basketball. Kerns is building momentum. The Sun Belt's schedule is actually smart, with Saturday conference games. Put packages together that combine a Saturday basketball game with a night on the mountain and skiing/sledding for a family.

Per the 2017 Knight Commission Report:
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... ion_data-1

Appalachian State had $35.06M in revenue (vs. $35.07M in expenses)
$11.81M (34%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$9.45M (27%) in Institutional/Government Support
$4.47M (12.75%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$2.92M (8%) in Donor Contributions
$2.49M (7%) in Ticket Sales
$1.89M (5%) in Competition Guarantees
$1.13M (3%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$0.9M (3%) in other Revenues

Hence, if we could add $500K in Ticket Sales, $1M in Donor Contributions and $500K in Corporate Sponsorships and Advertising it would really make a difference.

And, by the way to show the comparison vs. a P5 School.

NC State had $83.74M in Revenue (vs. $86.92M in Expenses)
$6.55M (8%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$0.0M (0%) in Institutional/Government Support
$32.24M (39%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$15.08M (18%) in Donor Contributions
$21.22M (25%) in Ticket Sales
$0.2M (0%) in Competition Guarantees
$4.47M (5%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$3.98M (5%) in other Revenues

App State pays $5.92M (17% of Expenses) to Coaching Compensation and $4.3M (12% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. $590K goes to recruiting.
NC State pays 17.36M (20% of their Expenses to Coaching Compensation and $15.81M (18% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. They spend $1.97M on Recruiting.

UNC-Chapel Hill had $96.55M in Revenue and $96.54M in Expenses. Their Coaching Compensation, Support and Admin Compensation and Recruiting numbers are similar to NC State.

The University of South Carolina had $136.03M in Revenue and $129.32M in Expenses.
What is funny is that because of the way you have to spend to consistently bring in recruits and brand yourself most schools don't actually make money. They think all these schools makes millions, and they do, but they spend as much or more than they bring in already. That is without having to start paying salaries to all the players like some who have no clue about economics want to do.



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppStateNews » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:09 am

DG loves Boone and App State. There's a reason he didn't go to Cincy and it wasn't all money related. He wants to be here. But, at the same time, realizes there's a cap for success for all athletic programs with the limited funding. At the end of the day, Yosef Club needs to grow.

If everyone on this board pledged a minimum 10% increase to Yosef Club every year, we would be able to fully fund scholarships within a couple years.

I don't know how many registered members there are, but I see the max amount of concurrent users was 1551. We have over 100,000 living alumni. Only 5% give (that's a high estimate). If 50% of the highest concurrent users give $10 a month, that's North of $93,000 a year! Increase that by 10% in year 2, and it gets to just over $102,000 a year.

Our issue is not reaching the people that don't realize even $10 a month does a world of wonders. Sure, it may not get the football benefits as higher donors, but, if you love the school and athletic program like so many claim, giving up two over priced coffees a month is more than worth it!



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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by appstatealum » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:13 am

The economics in college football just don't make sense anyway. I know it's a demanding job, but the salaries are insane.


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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by appstatealum » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:17 am

AppStateNews wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:09 am

Our issue is not reaching the people that don't realize even $10 a month does a world of wonders. Sure, it may not get the football benefits as higher donors, but, if you love the school and athletic program like so many claim, giving up two over priced coffees a month is more than worth it!
YES! Drives me insane. I know a bunch of former alumni, who admittedly aren't quite the level of fan I am, but follow the team and don't give anything. I've made pleas in group chats etc to get them to give 100 or something, but people just don't understand philanthropy. They just as easily go to Cherokee and gamble away more than that in a weekend. It's frustrating. I admittedly give away a good portion of my annual earnings to support the community/churches, much more than what I give App, but after season tickets and Yosef Club, I still give a nice chunk annually.


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Re: From Inside KBS

Unread post by AppDawg » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:29 am

AppStateNews wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:09 am
DG loves Boone and App State. There's a reason he didn't go to Cincy and it wasn't all money related. He wants to be here. But, at the same time, realizes there's a cap for success for all athletic programs with the limited funding. At the end of the day, Yosef Club needs to grow.

If everyone on this board pledged a minimum 10% increase to Yosef Club every year, we would be able to fully fund scholarships within a couple years.

I don't know how many registered members there are, but I see the max amount of concurrent users was 1551. We have over 100,000 living alumni. Only 5% give (that's a high estimate). If 50% of the highest concurrent users give $10 a month, that's North of $93,000 a year! Increase that by 10% in year 2, and it gets to just over $102,000 a year.

Our issue is not reaching the people that don't realize even $10 a month does a world of wonders. Sure, it may not get the football benefits as higher donors, but, if you love the school and athletic program like so many claim, giving up two over priced coffees a month is more than worth it!
I do not disagree. Adding better #’s to your estimates. Over 130,000 living alumni and ~3,000 active Yosef donors. We’d be doing excellent if we could get to 5%. Heck, 5% would double our giving base.



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