From Inside KBS

[WASU 93]

The economics in college football just don't make sense anyway. I know it's a demanding job, but the salaries are insane.

Coaching is critical but the salaries for head coaches and coordinators at the P5 level are insane. No public school employee should make more than 3M a year. That is just way too much. The fact some are making 7-9M is just mind boggling. All phases of the program matter. A head coach won't succeed without good assistant coaches, the coaches need a good recruiting department to find the talent, strength coach must develop that talent in the off-season and make them bigger, faster, stronger and the players must fit in your culture and put in the work. If you don't get the right players, don't develop them, or they just aren't any good then you can't win. The fact the head coaches make what they do is insane for sure.

At the P5 level they are CEO’s of a revenue generating program that carries the rest of the athletic program (with some help from basketball at some schools).

I encourage everyone to dig into the Knight Commission report. It breaks out football separate from the rest of the athletic department, shows FCS vs. FBS and is easy to read.

It adds value to our P5 wins this year regardless of their win/loss record. Every time we compete with a P5, we are really stepping out of our league from a resource standpoint.

When App State is mentioned with Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State in terms of long term success and carries a Top 20 ranking, there’s a helluva success story happening in Boone, in spite of the challenges.

Alumni, high country residents, and regional corporate neighbors need to hear the story, know the story and be part of the story.

[appalum2003]

I don't mean to sound like we should copycat another school's fund-raising body but how many here know what IPTAY originally stood for? That was many man years ago when it started but look at what it's grown into. If Yosef Club could as stated above get donors started early and often it would very easily trickle up to more significant contributions as years and income progressed.

This is what I'm doing. Times are tough. I can't go to games on weekends and don't need/can't use the rewards. So, I started giving $50 twice a year. It's not much, at all.

But, if 10,000 of us living alumni can just do this, that's $1MM. We just need someone at school to get some traction. If we can invest a little money into someone running something like this, it'll pay for itself 10x. I mean, if we need to, we could hire most of my ex girlfriends. They were all really good at getting money from me.

[BeauFoster]

I think one simple place to start would be to send a mailer to every alum in the database that doesn't currently give. Ask for $5 or $10/mo, explaining how it helps not only the athletic program, but the university in general. A catchy program and name, like IPTAY, would really help drive membership (I assume).

I donated to YC for 8 or so years, then was unable to do so for a couple. During those couple of years when I wasn't donating, I never heard a single thing from Boone about it. Reaching out to folks who used to donate and no longer do is another potential source of revenue, if for nothing else than to find out why they stopped donating in the first place.

[AppStFan1]

The economics in college football just don't make sense anyway. I know it's a demanding job, but the salaries are insane.

Coaching is critical but the salaries for head coaches and coordinators at the P5 level are insane. No public school employee should make more than 3M a year. That is just way too much. The fact some are making 7-9M is just mind boggling. All phases of the program matter. A head coach won't succeed without good assistant coaches, the coaches need a good recruiting department to find the talent, strength coach must develop that talent in the off-season and make them bigger, faster, stronger and the players must fit in your culture and put in the work. If you don't get the right players, don't develop them, or they just aren't any good then you can't win. The fact the head coaches make what they do is insane for sure.

At the P5 level they are CEO’s of a revenue generating program that carries the rest of the athletic program (with some help from basketball at some schools).

I encourage everyone to dig into the Knight Commission report. It breaks out football separate from the rest of the athletic department, shows FCS vs. FBS and is easy to read.

It adds value to our P5 wins this year regardless of their win/loss record. Every time we compete with a P5, we are really stepping out of our league from a resource standpoint.

When App State is mentioned with Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State in terms of long term success and carries a Top 20 ranking, there’s a helluva success story happening in Boone, in spite of the challenges.

Alumni, high country residents, and regional corporate neighbors need to hear the story, know the story and be part of the story.

I have not read it but will. With what you said to our challenges there is no question that the program of the year in FBS is Appalachian State. When you consider our resources and what we have done it is the most impressive. Memphis, Boise, Cincy, etc all have more than we do. The fact we are right with them and many P5s just goes to show our commitment.

A big reason for this is that we have developed players and identified good talent in HS better than everyone else at our level and many in the SEC and ACC. Those who are doing those such as our recruiting department and strength coaches should be making about 400-500k alone just because of that. I know Hamilton had a big part of it while here and he parlayed that into a job at UNC. I just wish we had the money to keep people like that so we could have continuity. It makes our success even more special that we plug and play with new staff and players every year.

[spacemonkey]

Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

I think App would be by the book with salary grades....It is where I learned what a salary grade is. Remember, they are probably not year round positions for some of those positions you listed.
While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.
[/quote

[ASU]

The economics in college football just don't make sense anyway. I know it's a demanding job, but the salaries are insane.

Coaching is critical but the salaries for head coaches and coordinators at the P5 level are insane. No public school employee should make more than 3M a year. That is just way too much. The fact some are making 7-9M is just mind boggling. All phases of the program matter. A head coach won't succeed without good assistant coaches, the coaches need a good recruiting department to find the talent, strength coach must develop that talent in the off-season and make them bigger, faster, stronger and the players must fit in your culture and put in the work. If you don't get the right players, don't develop them, or they just aren't any good then you can't win. The fact the head coaches make what they do is insane for sure.

At the P5 level they are CEO’s of a revenue generating program that carries the rest of the athletic program (with some help from basketball at some schools).

I encourage everyone to dig into the Knight Commission report. It breaks out football separate from the rest of the athletic department, shows FCS vs. FBS and is easy to read.

It adds value to our P5 wins this year regardless of their win/loss record. Every time we compete with a P5, we are really stepping out of our league from a resource standpoint.

When App State is mentioned with Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State in terms of long term success and carries a Top 20 ranking, there’s a helluva success story happening in Boone, in spite of the challenges.

Alumni, high country residents, and regional corporate neighbors need to hear the story, know the story and be part of the story.

The Knight Commission report doesn't tell the whole story. It adds 9 million of institutional support to the budget to make it look bigger than it is. There's 9 million of indirect institutional support. Someone want to dive into what 9 million of indirect institutional support is?
The budget is mid to high 20s, not 30s. It can get there, but it's not there now.

[appstategrad2008]

High cost of living in Boone?
This is what 300k buys in Boone:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/615- ... 7403_zpid/

And now what 300k buys in Charlotte:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/800- ... 9908_zpid/

I live in the Charlotte area and can tell you that Charlotte home isn't really representative of what $300K can buy. Yes, the Charlotte housing market is high (overpriced) but you can still buy quite a bit of house for $300K. It looks like your intend is to imply the Boone area isn't that high in terms of cost of living, but I would have to disagree (if that's your point).

No $300k will not buy you a decent home in CLT unless you choose an undesirable location and like to hear gunfire in the vicinity.

Totally overblown take... my wife and I bought our house 5 years ago (and yes, prices have gone up since then), but we live in one of the more desirable areas of South Charlotte and paid under 300k. I love Boone, and I love Charlotte. No need to try and make Charlotte out to be a mecca of violence with danger around every corner. For families, it's one of the best and most affordable larger cities in the country.

[Stonewall]

"The employee turnover is a huge problem, and it goes beyond money. Sure, App doesn't pay great, but the reasons people are leaving go far beyond money. The department doesn't do exit interviews, so the same issues occur over and over. Many employees are treated like shit, which leads to them looking for better opportunities. The high cost of living and remoteness of Boone make it tough on staff too. I think most of those that left liked Boone, just not their situation at App." Ok , so why doesn't DG do exit interviews? Are we talking about a hostile work environment ? Being "treated like s..." is a very strong accusation.

[ugmw177]

High cost of living in Boone?
This is what 300k buys in Boone:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/615- ... 7403_zpid/

And now what 300k buys in Charlotte:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/800- ... 9908_zpid/

I live in the Charlotte area and can tell you that Charlotte home isn't really representative of what $300K can buy. Yes, the Charlotte housing market is high (overpriced) but you can still buy quite a bit of house for $300K. It looks like your intend is to imply the Boone area isn't that high in terms of cost of living, but I would have to disagree (if that's your point).

No $300k will not buy you a decent home in CLT unless you choose an undesirable location and like to hear gunfire in the vicinity.

Totally overblown take... my wife and I bought our house 5 years ago (and yes, prices have gone up since then), but we live in one of the more desirable areas of South Charlotte and paid under 300k. I love Boone, and I love Charlotte. No need to try and make Charlotte out to be a mecca of violence with danger around every corner. For families, it's one of the best and most affordable larger cities in the country.

Well, probably but I have a home in S CLT; it is market value of about $500k. I would sort of like to sell and buy but to remain in the same vicinity inside of the 485, i'd have to add at least $250k to it to find similar size, age, location of home.
I didn't say CLT was not one of the more affordable larger cities but would like to know what desirable s clt neighborhood has $300k homes available.

[appstategrad2008]

High cost of living in Boone?
This is what 300k buys in Boone:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/615- ... 7403_zpid/

And now what 300k buys in Charlotte:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/800- ... 9908_zpid/

I live in the Charlotte area and can tell you that Charlotte home isn't really representative of what $300K can buy. Yes, the Charlotte housing market is high (overpriced) but you can still buy quite a bit of house for $300K. It looks like your intend is to imply the Boone area isn't that high in terms of cost of living, but I would have to disagree (if that's your point).

No $300k will not buy you a decent home in CLT unless you choose an undesirable location and like to hear gunfire in the vicinity.

Totally overblown take... my wife and I bought our house 5 years ago (and yes, prices have gone up since then), but we live in one of the more desirable areas of South Charlotte and paid under 300k. I love Boone, and I love Charlotte. No need to try and make Charlotte out to be a mecca of violence with danger around every corner. For families, it's one of the best and most affordable larger cities in the country.

Well, probably but I have a home in S CLT; it is market value of about $500k. I would sort of like to sell and buy but to remain in the same vicinity inside of the 485, i'd have to add at least $250k to it to find similar size, age, location of home.
I didn't say CLT was not one of the more affordable larger cities but would like to know what desirable s clt neighborhood has $300k homes available.

Obviously not going to give my address or anything, but we're near Providence Rd about 1-2 miles north of the Arboretum.

[scatman77]

I think one simple place to start would be to send a mailer to every alum in the database that doesn't currently give. Ask for $5 or $10/mo, explaining how it helps not only the athletic program, but the university in general. A catchy program and name, like IPTAY, would really help drive membership (I assume).

I donated to YC for 8 or so years, then was unable to do so for a couple. During those couple of years when I wasn't donating, I never heard a single thing from Boone about it. Reaching out to folks who used to donate and no longer do is another potential source of revenue, if for nothing else than to find out why they stopped donating in the first place.

We need to make sure that ALL alumni athletes are contacted and I mean with regular and personal stuff. The Former Athletes Association is trying its best to help do that but for me personally in talking with athletes from my era (73-78) what I hear is: "No one from athletics ever contacted me, has ever contacted me, and neither has the Yosef Club." Sure we can say that all they need to do is hit up the website but it's a well-known fact (at least to me) that personal intentional contact goes a long, long way towards developing that person's desire to contribute. I know for a fact the football players from that era feel very alienated, at least a lot of whom I've talked with.

[BeauFoster]

I think one simple place to start would be to send a mailer to every alum in the database that doesn't currently give. Ask for $5 or $10/mo, explaining how it helps not only the athletic program, but the university in general. A catchy program and name, like IPTAY, would really help drive membership (I assume).

I donated to YC for 8 or so years, then was unable to do so for a couple. During those couple of years when I wasn't donating, I never heard a single thing from Boone about it. Reaching out to folks who used to donate and no longer do is another potential source of revenue, if for nothing else than to find out why they stopped donating in the first place.

We need to make sure that ALL alumni athletes are contacted and I mean with regular and personal stuff. The Former Athletes Association is trying its best to help do that but for me personally in talking with athletes from my era (73-78) what I hear is: "No one from athletics ever contacted me, has ever contacted me, and neither has the Yosef Club." Sure we can say that all they need to do is hit up the website but it's a well-known fact (at least to me) that personal intentional contact goes a long, long way towards developing that person's desire to contribute. I know for a fact the football players from that era feel very alienated, at least a lot of whom I've talked with.

I completely agree on the contact part, and understand the feeling of alienation (even though I don’t have the ties that a former athlete would have). In fact, I felt a little betrayed (probably to the right word) that no one ever seemed to care that I was no longer donating. I wasn’t a huge donor by any stretch, but was giving $1k/yr at one point. I began donating again a couple years ago on my own because I was able to do so again, but not quite at that level.

Reaching out to all alums, as well as those who no longer donate is a great place to start. Also, as pointed out in this thread, hit every business in Watauga, Wilkes, Ashe, Catawba, etc and try to get them involved, even at a low level.

[VNova]

I've received mailers and emails for the Appalachian Fund with some minor frequency over the past year or so. I was able to give a couple times. For comparison, I have received nothing from Yosef Club. Athletics can learn from the Appalachian Fund about campaigns. The alumni database might not be 100% accurate, but it's got to be a good start to send out mailers

[TheMoody1]

I was told several years ago that Yosef was discouraged/not allowed to do mass mailings/calling because that was reserved for fund raising for the general fund. Don't know if that is true or not.

[Yosef10]

Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.

Now, is the time for a really solid Marketing and Promotions Team to be formed.

Football, our stock is as high as it's ever been. I know DG's not a fan of mini-plans, but there's a need. Give full season-ticket holders a decent discount and the best parking. Put together two or three game mini plans that allow busier families to get up the mountain and have consistent seats and parking. Encourage tailgating and provide some in-stadium perks (concession deals), family four-packs, etc. Also, put together a in-stadium, media, digital package that is attractive to ASU friendly businesses off-mountain. Build off the momentum that we have.

Basketball. Kerns is building momentum. The Sun Belt's schedule is actually smart, with Saturday conference games. Put packages together that combine a Saturday basketball game with a night on the mountain and skiing/sledding for a family.

Per the 2017 Knight Commission Report:
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... ion_data-1

Appalachian State had $35.06M in revenue (vs. $35.07M in expenses)
$11.81M (34%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$9.45M (27%) in Institutional/Government Support
$4.47M (12.75%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$2.92M (8%) in Donor Contributions
$2.49M (7%) in Ticket Sales
$1.89M (5%) in Competition Guarantees
$1.13M (3%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$0.9M (3%) in other Revenues

Hence, if we could add $500K in Ticket Sales, $1M in Donor Contributions and $500K in Corporate Sponsorships and Advertising it would really make a difference.

And, by the way to show the comparison vs. a P5 School.

NC State had $83.74M in Revenue (vs. $86.92M in Expenses)
$6.55M (8%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$0.0M (0%) in Institutional/Government Support
$32.24M (39%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$15.08M (18%) in Donor Contributions
$21.22M (25%) in Ticket Sales
$0.2M (0%) in Competition Guarantees
$4.47M (5%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$3.98M (5%) in other Revenues

App State pays $5.92M (17% of Expenses) to Coaching Compensation and $4.3M (12% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. $590K goes to recruiting.
NC State pays 17.36M (20% of their Expenses to Coaching Compensation and $15.81M (18% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. They spend $1.97M on Recruiting.

UNC-Chapel Hill had $96.55M in Revenue and $96.54M in Expenses. Their Coaching Compensation, Support and Admin Compensation and Recruiting numbers are similar to NC State.

The University of South Carolina had $136.03M in Revenue and $129.32M in Expenses.

What is funny is that because of the way you have to spend to consistently bring in recruits and brand yourself most schools don't actually make money. They think all these schools makes millions, and they do, but they spend as much or more than they bring in already. That is without having to start paying salaries to all the players like some who have no clue about economics want to do.

That’s because athletic departments are non-profits and have no incentive to turn a profit, and in fact one could argue they spend it just so at the end of the day they can tell you they’re broke and you’ll buy it. LSU would have been just fine without a $28M renovation (yes, renovation not a new building) but with no incentive to turn a profit you can piss away every last dollar you have and not have to lose a wink of sleep over where your salary will come from. You can bet your ass if they had to plan for their own salaries, or better yet that of their labor, there would be plenty of cash to go around at the end of the day instead of 100 nap pods and a damn slide in the football facility.

[AppDawg]

I think the Yosef Club would benefit by becoming a separate legal non-profit legal entity. Most major Universities this is how they are set up. Allows for more flexibility and nimbleness.

Along these same lines, I think Alumni Chapters should explore this as well.

[AppStFan1]

Reads a lot of stuff on this message board however just decided to officially join yesterday? Everything being said is no shock, and honestly we've been saying on here for years. Charlie Cobb and his people that mattered never thought we'd join FBS and take off like this, gaining so much recognition. Hell, nobody on here saw this success coming this early. Problem is, we've lost two coaches who went to P5 programs, because we can't afford to keep anyone around. Reading Clark's contract details, while it's way more than I make, it's kind of embarrassing that given our success we can't afford to give him more. I think his love for App State and desire to be here long term which unlike Drink I actually believe, is a major reason why he got the job. D.G. knew we'd be losing coaches almost annually if we went with other candidates.

While I agree that the best way to spread Yosef Club donation requests is through word of mouth by people like us, the university needs to do a much better job promoting.

Now, is the time for a really solid Marketing and Promotions Team to be formed.

Football, our stock is as high as it's ever been. I know DG's not a fan of mini-plans, but there's a need. Give full season-ticket holders a decent discount and the best parking. Put together two or three game mini plans that allow busier families to get up the mountain and have consistent seats and parking. Encourage tailgating and provide some in-stadium perks (concession deals), family four-packs, etc. Also, put together a in-stadium, media, digital package that is attractive to ASU friendly businesses off-mountain. Build off the momentum that we have.

Basketball. Kerns is building momentum. The Sun Belt's schedule is actually smart, with Saturday conference games. Put packages together that combine a Saturday basketball game with a night on the mountain and skiing/sledding for a family.

Per the 2017 Knight Commission Report:
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... ion_data-1

Appalachian State had $35.06M in revenue (vs. $35.07M in expenses)
$11.81M (34%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$9.45M (27%) in Institutional/Government Support
$4.47M (12.75%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$2.92M (8%) in Donor Contributions
$2.49M (7%) in Ticket Sales
$1.89M (5%) in Competition Guarantees
$1.13M (3%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$0.9M (3%) in other Revenues

Hence, if we could add $500K in Ticket Sales, $1M in Donor Contributions and $500K in Corporate Sponsorships and Advertising it would really make a difference.

And, by the way to show the comparison vs. a P5 School.

NC State had $83.74M in Revenue (vs. $86.92M in Expenses)
$6.55M (8%) of the Revenue comes from Student Fees)
$0.0M (0%) in Institutional/Government Support
$32.24M (39%) from NCAA/Conference Distributions + Media Rights and Post-Season Football
$15.08M (18%) in Donor Contributions
$21.22M (25%) in Ticket Sales
$0.2M (0%) in Competition Guarantees
$4.47M (5%) in Corporate Sponsorship, Advertising and Licensing
$3.98M (5%) in other Revenues

App State pays $5.92M (17% of Expenses) to Coaching Compensation and $4.3M (12% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. $590K goes to recruiting.
NC State pays 17.36M (20% of their Expenses to Coaching Compensation and $15.81M (18% of Expenses) to Support and Admin Compensation with Severance. They spend $1.97M on Recruiting.

UNC-Chapel Hill had $96.55M in Revenue and $96.54M in Expenses. Their Coaching Compensation, Support and Admin Compensation and Recruiting numbers are similar to NC State.

The University of South Carolina had $136.03M in Revenue and $129.32M in Expenses.

What is funny is that because of the way you have to spend to consistently bring in recruits and brand yourself most schools don't actually make money. They think all these schools makes millions, and they do, but they spend as much or more than they bring in already. That is without having to start paying salaries to all the players like some who have no clue about economics want to do.

That’s because athletic departments are non-profits and have no incentive to turn a profit, and in fact one could argue they spend it just so at the end of the day they can tell you they’re broke and you’ll buy it. LSU would have been just fine without a $28M renovation (yes, renovation not a new building) but with no incentive to turn a profit you can piss away every last dollar you have and not have to lose a wink of sleep over where your salary will come from. You can bet your ass if they had to plan for their own salaries, or better yet that of their labor, there would be plenty of cash to go around at the end of the day instead of 100 nap pods and a damn slide in the football facility.

That typically could be true but today is a true arms race. Recruiting is impacted by what you have in facilities such as how new is everything, do you have bells and whistles someone else does not have, etc. So while I know what you are saying is partially true the issue is schools can't just sit on money anyway because if school has stockpiles 20-30M a year but school B is spending it on facilities and other bells and whistles then school A may be loaded but they are falling behind in recruiting. There are so many secondary type positions in athletics now that were not there just 15-20 years ago. So while yes I agree with what you said the problem is schools have to spend to stay up to date or they fall drastically behind in recruiting.

[Rekdiver]

My career in the Private Bank at BofA would have been a failure if I only prospected those who banked there. I and my compatriots had a running list of “elephants” we hunted in NC S.C. and a few nationally. We need elephant hunters...A volunteer committee to identify and develop individual tailored strategies for some nOn App heavy hitters

[scatman77]

I was told several years ago that Yosef was discouraged/not allowed to do mass mailings/calling because that was reserved for fund raising for the general fund. Don't know if that is true or not.

I believe that is correct. Yosef Club solicitations cannot overlap with general fund solicitation. That being said I receive 2-3 phone calls a year from the Appalachian Fund asking for donations. I make it clear each time that I give to the YC. I know I ought to give to the general fund for academics but I choose YC because I was a part of athletics, it gave me a vocation and a job, and I'm just partial to that. Nothing against the general fund but I can't afford to give to both.

[wncapp78]

I was told several years ago that Yosef was discouraged/not allowed to do mass mailings/calling because that was reserved for fund raising for the general fund. Don't know if that is true or not.

That’s absolutely NOT true. If you have any doubt, call Randy Edwards, Vice Chancellor for University Advancement. 828-262-2090. Ask. All the development officers report, directly or indirectly, to him, including Suzette Mauney, Associate AD for Develpment. If folks have questions or suggestions, call. Don’t just post here and wonder what is or is not happening.