https://www.ednc.org/2021-11-02-communi ... ge-system/

Spending $14mm to move UNC system into government center complex in Raleigh and merge the larger community college system and UNC system together.

Phil Berger the college and university system expert.

So is this a good thing or will it just make Community College more expensive for kids that need a lower cost education? Can't open article without subscription.

Yosefus wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:10 pm

So is this a good thing or will it just make Community College more expensive for kids that need a lower cost education? Can't open article without subscription.

That's odd. I don't have a subscription.

I don't understand what the benefits would be. He is a follower of the Art Pope foundation and their desire to cut funding of public education. Berger likely is following their call to consolidate colleges and cut funding. They claim that the public colleges have an "unfair advantage" over the private colleges and that advantage (state funding) must be eliminated.

Potential plan to merge UNC and community college system made public

Alex Granados
November 2, 2021
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Community College System President Thomas Stith, speaking at the dais, talks to the House education appropriations committee about the system's budget priorities on June 2, 2021. Alex Granados/EducationNC
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Updated: EdNC received an email at 11:58 p.m. on Nov. 2 from the North Carolina Community College System. It says in part, “President Stith’s email to ‘Presidents’ and his response that we provided to you this evening in no way confirms a merger. We have not been consulted by the General Assembly on these speculative plans.”

An email obtained by EducationNC shows Thomas Stith, president of the North Carolina Community College System, confirming news broken by long-form periodical The Assembly that plans may be in the works to merge the University of North Carolina and North Carolina Community College systems.


In the email to community college presidents, Stith references The Assembly’s profile of UNC-System President Peter Hans (the former North Carolina Community College System president), and its suggestion of a merger.

“I felt it was important to make you aware that this potential restructuring concept has been made public,” Stith wrote.

The Assembly article by Kyle Villemain, published Nov. 2, said that Senate President Pro Tempore, Phil Berger, R-Rockingham, confirmed to The Assembly “a significant reorganization of the state’s higher-education landscape that would merge the university and community college systems under the leadership of one person—Hans.”

Later in the article, Villemain specifically asks Berger about the possibility of a merger.

The article quotes Berger as saying, “I think there’s a need,” and referencing a plan in the Senate proposed budget that would put the community college and UNC systems in the same building.

“If we get them all in one building,” the article quotes him as saying, “maybe we can get them into one organizational structure.”

That plan calls for $1.8 million in non-recurring funds in fiscal year 2021-22 and more than $11.3 million nonrecurring in 2022-23 for a plan to move the UNC System Office to the downtown government complex in Raleigh.


Villemain goes on to ask Berger if Hans should lead a consolidated system and Berger responds by saying “I think so.”

EducationNC reached out to Stith to ask him about the potential merger. He responded with the following statement:

“The Great 58 community colleges provide affordable and accessible training and higher education opportunities. We are the third largest community college system in the country and provide education for more than half a million students each year. Our strong partnerships with business and industry in our communities and around the globe are creating a demand for our community colleges to provide customized training for the unique and skilled workforce they need, and we are leading economic recovery efforts in North Carolina. We have strategic partnerships with UNC institutions and independent colleges and universities statewide. Students who attended N.C. community colleges from July 2009 to June 2019 accounted for 33% of all N.C. wage earners, totaling 1.7M people and $60B earned in FY 2020. Our system of 58 community colleges is strong, and we are well poised to meet the needs of our great state.”

The Republican-controlled legislature has worked diligently over the past decade or more to reduce the influence of the UNC system and its member institutions. These plans are just another move toward that end. Long-term, the hope is to purge leadership and eventually faculty who support and teach doctrine that is perceived as liberal leaning. They know this won't happen overnight but are willing to wait patiently as the university system is reorganized and tighter controls are put in place.

appstanding wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:58 pm

The Republican-controlled legislature has worked diligently over the past decade or more to reduce the influence of the UNC system and its member institutions. These plans are just another move toward that end. Long-term, the hope is to purge leadership and eventually faculty who support and teach doctrine that is perceived as liberal leaning. They know this won't happen overnight but are willing to wait patiently as the university system is reorganized and tighter controls are put in place.

It is extremely unfortunate and also very unconstitutional.

Practically any effort that minimizes or eliminates the damage caused by liberalism is a good thing. Liberals in higher education are largely bullies that stifle individual thought and free speech and they need to be reigned in. Also, please rename the board “The North Carolina Higher Education System”.

I tend to be very leery of anything Berger puts forth regarding higher education. He's no fan of subsidized higher education and, I believe, would like to dismantle the University of NC system; a system that has benefited our state massively. With the rising costs of college, questions regarding the value, etc, we are reaching a tipping point and change is coming; I'd just rather not have Berger's fat fingers on the scale tipping it in the wrong direction.

Interesting idea.2 plus 2 is the most cost effective path to higher education.

I have an A.A. degree from Western Piedmont C.C. and a B.S. degree from ASU.I can see a possible advantage from an academic standpoint,but from an economic standpoint it could be a very bad idea.The community college system thrives because it is affordable training in a relatively short time.Overall, I have some reservations about this.

This is effectively what they did in Georgia.

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:48 am

This is effectively what they did in Georgia.

Curious, how has that worked out so far? And, how do you think it will work out in the long run? I have warmed to the idea of spending two years in an Associate program before transitioning to a four year school, especially if the student can't afford the higher cost, is unsure of their wants or is not yet prepared for success at the typical 4-year institution.

There are already plenty of transfer programs between the community college system and the 4-year universities.

Pretty soon textbooks extolling the virtues of the Confederacy will be populating our bookshelves again..........

Rekdiver wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:56 am

Pretty soon textbooks extolling the virtues of the Confederacy will be population our bookshelves again..........

asu1978 wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:39 am

I have an A.A. degree from Western Piedmont C.C. and a B.S. degree from ASU.I can see a possible advantage from an academic standpoint,but from an economic standpoint it could be a very bad idea.The community college system thrives because it is affordable training in a relatively short time.Overall, I have some reservations about this.

I don't know if you follow a lot of the news but app state has been extremely proactive in arranging transfer programs with the community colleges in the region that really promotes students going to the two-year route and then transferring to app state. The transfer program and Appalachian has grown tremendously in the last couple of years under Sherry Everet.

I I could see how there could be advantages for Appalachian if they merged Caldwell community college and/or Central Piedmont community college into app state and then Appalachian might better be able to utilize for baccalaureate and graduate programs. That's the only benefit I could see.

The big thing here is is North Carolina has one of the best community college systems in the country and we have one of the better state university systems in the country so why muck it up?

Rekdiver wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:56 am

Pretty soon textbooks extolling the virtues of the Confederacy will be populating our bookshelves again..........

Oh geez. No but unfortunately Phil Berger and Art Pope want to end the UNC system funding.

mikeyosef wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:59 am

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:48 am

This is effectively what they did in Georgia.

Curious, how has that worked out so far? And, how do you think it will work out in the long run? I have warmed to the idea of spending two years in an Associate program before transitioning to a four year school, especially if the student can't afford the higher cost, is unsure of their wants or is not yet prepared for success at the typical 4-year institution.

Yeah perimeter college in Atlanta was the second or third largest community college system in the country and they merged it into Georgia State University but it operates entirely as a separate entity under Georgia State University. I just don't know that I understand what the benefits are. If it wasn't Phil Berger involved I wouldn't be worried about it being a sinister plan.

HighlandsApp wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:41 am

mikeyosef wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:59 am

AtlAppMan wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:48 am

This is effectively what they did in Georgia.

Curious, how has that worked out so far? And, how do you think it will work out in the long run? I have warmed to the idea of spending two years in an Associate program before transitioning to a four year school, especially if the student can't afford the higher cost, is unsure of their wants or is not yet prepared for success at the typical 4-year institution.

Yeah perimeter college in Atlanta was the second or third largest community college system in the country and they merged it into Georgia State University but it operates entirely as a separate entity under Georgia State University. I just don't know that I understand what the benefits are. If it wasn't Phil Berger involved I wouldn't be worried about it being a sinister plan.

I agree, you can be confident Phil Berger does not have the University System's best interest at heart. He has been slowly, systematically moving to undermine the system since he's held his leadership role. Not the least of which was pushing Tom Ross out as University president a number of year ago which I felt was very telling. Fortunately, I believe there are many in his own party who value our current University system and don't want major changes. Still as long as he's in a leadership role the future of affordable higher education in NC may well be at risk.

I'm a product of the University system, making more money and living better than my father before me who was the first in his family to attend school in the North Carolina University system, making more money and living a better life than his father before him, my Grandfather, who could never have dreamed of being able to receive a University education like that of my father. Education is the great equalizer and still the best path to a better life for most people. I worry Berger's plans will make that path more difficult for everyday North Carolinians.