Original NIL Discussion

[Saint3333]

For those that are great at searching this message board could you bump the original NIL discussion from a couple of years ago, I'd love to read the predictions from that gem.

[Bigdaddyg1]

There were a few who said they were strongly in favor of NIL as these poor kids deserve to be paid because the schools are making millions if not billions. Yep the App State basketball program is a financial juggernaut.

[BambooRdApp]

Whether App St bball is a profitable financially is a separate discussion as whether the student athletes should get paid.
I actually think the athletes should get paid given the amount of work put in. I just would like some controls around transferring...which the court system seems to disagree with me....

[Saint3333]

Students got a scholarship and a stipend each semester pre NIL. 400 opportunities at a school like ours were provided.

I'd estimate 90% of the NIL contributions will come from the upper quartile of existing donors at most schools.

If donors get disenfranchised by their prior "donations" walking out the door there will be less money at the second and third tier programs.

There is a tipping point for those donors and I'm afraid the unintended consequences will be less division one scholarships long-term.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Whether App St bball is a profitable financially is a separate discussion as whether the student athletes should get paid.
I actually think the athletes should get paid given the amount of work put in. I just would like some controls around transferring...which the court system seems to disagree with me....

Let me ask you this question and I am not being a smart A nor am I being argumentative with you- simply trying to see all sides.
So if the athletes should get paid does that apply to the freshman 3rd team linebacker for App? How much does he deserve? He's putting in the exact same of work in the weight room and on the practice field as the stud who will actually play on Saturdays. What is an equitable amount to pay? I get the whole market dictates thing but most pro leagues collectively bargain and agree on team salary caps and for the most part are regulated. I just don't see how you decide the value of different players on different sports.

[AppStFan1]

There were a few who said they were strongly in favor of NIL as these poor kids deserve to be paid because the schools are making millions if not billions. Yep the App State basketball program is a financial juggernaut.

That was my big issue with it because we can't even afford to pay 25k to every athlete in school and a small amount of schools can. People made these decisions only thinking about football while ignoring Title IX and the fact that you can't just pay football players without paying the others.

[Bigdaddyg1]

There were a few who said they were strongly in favor of NIL as these poor kids deserve to be paid because the schools are making millions if not billions. Yep the App State basketball program is a financial juggernaut.

That was my big issue with it because we can't even afford to pay 25k to every athlete in school and a small amount of schools can. People made these decisions only thinking about football while ignoring Title IX and the fact that you can't just pay football players without paying the others.

Exactly. Some folks just say "they deserve to be paid.." but offer up zero ideas on how it's supposed to work. Do you pay more based on the size of the school? Where exactly does this added payment source from? There are already added benefits for every athlete that people gloss over- trainers, tutors, training table meals, etc. I've always felt like a small stipend is a good idea but as far as extra money let it be tested like grants. If a student athlete has an added financial need (the poor kid who has no money for a pizza) let him apply for and receive a grant. It's all controlled and regulated. There are plenty of scholarship athletes who come from families with the means to send their kids spending money since the school is free. How many football players at Georgia won't sniff any real playing time next season? They work out and practice just like the guys who will go pro in the first round but on Saturday don't generate a dime. How much do they "deserve"?

[AppStFan1]

Whether App St bball is a profitable financially is a separate discussion as whether the student athletes should get paid.
I actually think the athletes should get paid given the amount of work put in. I just would like some controls around transferring...which the court system seems to disagree with me....

Nobody is against true NIL but that is not what we have. Remember that we have to pay every athlete and not just football because of Title IX if you are talking about an actual salary.

Also, football is about the only sport profitable outside of some basketball and baseball. I would say less than 50% of FBS programs can even afford to pay salaries to all athletes.

My question is whether we get to a point where they are deemed employees and a scholarship is viewed as taxable? In the SEC players have always been given a small stipend, food, often a car on the down low, free housing, books, etc as part of their scholarship. We have always taken care of our players.

[AppStFan1]

There were a few who said they were strongly in favor of NIL as these poor kids deserve to be paid because the schools are making millions if not billions. Yep the App State basketball program is a financial juggernaut.

That was my big issue with it because we can't even afford to pay 25k to every athlete in school and a small amount of schools can. People made these decisions only thinking about football while ignoring Title IX and the fact that you can't just pay football players without paying the others.

Exactly. Some folks just say "they deserve to be paid.." but offer up zero ideas on how it's supposed to work. Do you pay more based on the size of the school? Where exactly does this added payment source from? There are already added benefits for every athlete that people gloss over- trainers, tutors, training table meals, etc. I've always felt like a small stipend is a good idea but as far as extra money let it be tested like grants. If a student athlete has an added financial need (the poor kid who has no money for a pizza) let him apply for and receive a grant. It's all controlled and regulated. There are plenty of scholarship athletes who come from families with the means to send their kids spending money since the school is free. How many football players at Georgia won't sniff any real playing time next season? They work out and practice just like the guys who will go pro in the first round but on Saturday don't generate a dime. How much do they "deserve"?

Agreed. Nobody thinks all this stuff through. You have to test this stuff and see the true cause and effect.

[BambooRdApp]

Whether App St bball is a profitable financially is a separate discussion as whether the student athletes should get paid.
I actually think the athletes should get paid given the amount of work put in. I just would like some controls around transferring...which the court system seems to disagree with me....

Let me ask you this question and I am not being a smart A nor am I being argumentative with you- simply trying to see all sides.
So if the athletes should get paid does that apply to the freshman 3rd team linebacker for App? How much does he deserve? He's putting in the exact same of work in the weight room and on the practice field as the stud who will actually play on Saturdays. What is an equitable amount to pay? I get the whole market dictates thing but most pro leagues collectively bargain and agree on team salary caps and for the most part are regulated. I just don't see how you decide the value of different players on different sports.

I do not have an answer on what the appropriate amount is. My belief is that they should. Do I think it is crazy how much the QB at Alabama makes, yes. But the kids are putting in basically full time jobs in addition to going to class. I personally believe it should be more than room, board, etc.

[AppSt94]

NIL is becoming a necessary evil to compete. If we don’t keep up then it will affect wins and losses on the field. I get that most on here seem to grasp that when it comes to basketball, but are you willing to accept it if it affects football?

[Saint3333]

We've always been the underdog and done more with less. But this has tilted the scale so far in favor of others that I'm not sure it matters if we step up and answer the NIL call.

And that is more frustrating than anything.

[AppStFan1]

NIL is becoming a necessary evil to compete. If we don’t keep up then it will affect wins and losses on the field. I get that most on here seem to grasp that when it comes to basketball, but are you willing to accept it if it affects football?

NIL is not an evil if done right. What we are seeing is pay to play and calling it NIL is just not fair. What Ryan Burger had was a NIL deal but that is not what we are seeing with these basketball players and some football players.

I am 100% willing to accept losing in football if we refuse to move down. I wanted us in FBS but if we can't compete here with our budget then maybe we should move back down. With inflation and all that is going on I just can't justify spending even more money on our program.

[fjblair]

In that thread I said it would be a disaster, and would destroy college sports as we know it.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Nobody who is on the side of favoring NIL has offered up a single reasonable financial suggestion that can be quantified. There is some misconception that App State athletics will become better and that we will springboard to more championships if we just pony up a pot of money to pay the athletes. This simply isn't true. There is absolutely no way our school will generate enough extra cash to buy the players needed to compete with the power schools.

[AppSt94]

Nobody who is on the side of favoring NIL has offered up a single reasonable financial suggestion that can be quantified. There is some misconception that App State athletics will become better and that we will springboard to more championships if we just pony up a pot of money to pay the athletes. This simply isn't true. There is absolutely no way our school will generate enough extra cash to buy the players needed to compete with the power schools.

And the opposite to that is also true. If we don’t pony up enough money to keep who we have then we will have a difficult time staying at the top of where we are. It works both ways. Doing nothing doesn’t keep us where we are.

[AppSt94]

NIL is becoming a necessary evil to compete. If we don’t keep up then it will affect wins and losses on the field. I get that most on here seem to grasp that when it comes to basketball, but are you willing to accept it if it affects football?

NIL is not an evil if done right. What we are seeing is pay to play and calling it NIL is just not fair. What Ryan Burger had was a NIL deal but that is not what we are seeing with these basketball players and some football players.

I am 100% willing to accept losing in football if we refuse to move down. I wanted us in FBS but if we can't compete here with our budget then maybe we should move back down. With inflation and all that is going on I just can't justify spending even more money on our program.

All of what you said is rational and cogent. But not everyone is going to feel that way. We have a very vocal and passionate fanbase that loves to bitch and moan about results but aren’t interested in putting skin in the game.

[AppStFan1]

NIL is becoming a necessary evil to compete. If we don’t keep up then it will affect wins and losses on the field. I get that most on here seem to grasp that when it comes to basketball, but are you willing to accept it if it affects football?

NIL is not an evil if done right. What we are seeing is pay to play and calling it NIL is just not fair. What Ryan Burger had was a NIL deal but that is not what we are seeing with these basketball players and some football players.

I am 100% willing to accept losing in football if we refuse to move down. I wanted us in FBS but if we can't compete here with our budget then maybe we should move back down. With inflation and all that is going on I just can't justify spending even more money on our program.

All of what you said is rational and cogent. But not everyone is going to feel that way. We have a very vocal and passionate fanbase that loves to bitch and moan about results but aren’t interested in putting skin in the game.

I want results when I see the talent on the field and I am passionate about our program but I will admit I am losing some of that passion when I see a day like yesterday. For those who are standing up for pay to play and so passionate then I suggest they donate massive money. If they can't donate the millions we need to keep up in facilities arms race and keep players from going to power leagues then they should relax and accept what happens. I am fully ready to accept it. This is a results business though so that is why I say I would not like it but accept moving down if we can't financially sustain this level. Things have changed since we moved up and I do think there are a lot of schools who might need to move back down. There is a huge divide right now in football and basketball between power programs and mid-majors/G5.

[appdaze]

Take your pick. These are from 2013-2014

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4246&p=46927#p46927

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4255&p=46995#p46995

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3689&p=40912#p40912

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2343&p=26502#p26502

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2439&p=28167#p28167

[AppSt94]

NIL is becoming a necessary evil to compete. If we don’t keep up then it will affect wins and losses on the field. I get that most on here seem to grasp that when it comes to basketball, but are you willing to accept it if it affects football?

NIL is not an evil if done right. What we are seeing is pay to play and calling it NIL is just not fair. What Ryan Burger had was a NIL deal but that is not what we are seeing with these basketball players and some football players.

I am 100% willing to accept losing in football if we refuse to move down. I wanted us in FBS but if we can't compete here with our budget then maybe we should move back down. With inflation and all that is going on I just can't justify spending even more money on our program.

All of what you said is rational and cogent. But not everyone is going to feel that way. We have a very vocal and passionate fanbase that loves to bitch and moan about results but aren’t interested in putting skin in the game.

I want results when I see the talent on the field and I am passionate about our program but I will admit I am losing some of that passion when I see a day like yesterday. For those who are standing up for pay to play and so passionate then I suggest they donate massive money. If they can't donate the millions we need to keep up in facilities arms race and keep players from going to power leagues then they should relax and accept what happens. I am fully ready to accept it. This is a results business though so that is why I say I would not like it but accept moving down if we can't financially sustain this level. Things have changed since we moved up and I do think there are a lot of schools who might need to move back down. There is a huge divide right now in football and basketball between power programs and mid-majors/G5.

With this new a TIGMA endeavor, there will be plenty of ways to contribute without donating. I was really impressed with what they have going on and what they expect in terms of growth. If anyone is interested, there is an interview on 24/7 with the ED of SANIL. It’s a good read on not only App, but how NIL is part of the new college landscape.