In case you haven't been following this story...

Southern California based AP voter Haley Sawyer is catching a LOT of flack for moving Florida up and South Florida down after the Bulls beat the Gators Saturday. She then took to video and essentially laughed it off saying "it probably doesn't matter". So either, A) she got caught not knowing the result of a game and just assumed UF won or B) she doesn't take her role as a voter seriously. I'm sure everyone here believes that the polls are "rigged against the small schools" to some degree.

Danny Kanell says we should give her a break. What do you think?

Link to watch her video response to the controversey: https://x.com/dannykanell/status/1965427668742254849

APPdiesel wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 10, 2025 10:29 am

In case you haven't been following this story...

Southern California based AP voter Haley Sawyer is catching a LOT of flack for moving Florida up and South Florida down after the Bulls beat the Gators Saturday. She then took to video and essentially laughed it off saying "it probably doesn't matter". So either, A) she got caught not knowing the result of a game and just assumed UF won or B) she doesn't take her role as a voter seriously. I'm sure everyone here believes that the polls are "rigged against the small schools" to some degree.

Danny Kanell says we should give her a break. What do you think?

Link to watch her video response to the controversey: https://x.com/dannykanell/status/1965427668742254849

Her video response should be enough to take away her voting privileges. Just knowing that they often have to drag the name of a team into a box in many polls she could have said it was an error but she did not even do that. I do wonder why the person tallying the votes did not catch it and ask her if she was sure of that.

Many coaches just let their SID cast their vote and many AP voters either do something like this or just slot teams, meaning they have a floor and ceiling to which they will move a team in a week. This is proof that we should completely ignore the polls and they don't even matter anymore since we have the CFP rankings anyway.

We would all be floored at some of the crazy votes if all conferences, national awards, and polls published every single vote. I know the media in the SoCon was heavily slanted to Furman because there were more media from the Greenville/Spartanburg area. I have heard of some crazy votes by media in the Sun Belt Postseason Awards and other leagues as well.

Yet another example of why no pole should exist until at least 6 games into the season. South Florida appears to be legit but when I hear it mentioned that they have two top 25 wins I shake my head. While that may be true the first win was against “number 25” Boise who was 0-0 and was only ranked based on a complely unknown opinion. It will probably ultimately be a quality win but if Boise goes 6-6 saying USF beat a ranked team will sound even more ridiculous.

I wish they would get rid of rankings altogether, and the playoffs be composed of only conference champions. Win your conference, go to the playoffs, plain and simple.

I'm a Team No Polls Til October as well.

The problem with her mindset is that there are only 62 AP votes, so one rogue vote can be the difference between a team being in the poll and not. And the AP Poll is a massive boost to teams. Having that number by your school's name on a 3-4 hour broadcast is free advertising. And it's used big time in recruiting.

If schools use fake list rankings made by random social network accounts and what resellers want to charge people per ticket as marketing tools, they will use any little thing in recruiting.

All she had to say was "I didn't see the games, assumed wrong, I made a mistake and I'll do better next week."

As someone vote has voted in the Reddit CFB Top 25 poll for several years and previously was a voter in FCS Top 25 polls, it's not as easy as you may think. Especially in September. I forgot two nailed-on Top 25 teams in my Week One poll this year.

The AP poll as it currently sits is not a poll to look at the best 25 teams, its a marketing tool for the tv companies to market their games

APPdiesel wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 10, 2025 10:29 am

In case you haven't been following this story...

Southern California based AP voter Haley Sawyer is catching a LOT of flack for moving Florida up and South Florida down after the Bulls beat the Gators Saturday. She then took to video and essentially laughed it off saying "it probably doesn't matter". So either, A) she got caught not knowing the result of a game and just assumed UF won or B) she doesn't take her role as a voter seriously. I'm sure everyone here believes that the polls are "rigged against the small schools" to some degree.

Danny Kanell says we should give her a break. What do you think?

Link to watch her video response to the controversey: https://x.com/dannykanell/status/1965427668742254849

The cavalier attitude pisses me off to no end. Can someone enlighten us as to how or if AP voters are changed out during or throughout the season?

it's probably time to ditch all these idiot pollsters and let AI handle it.

Pretty awful video. Not the end of the world, but to just ramble on and laugh about it and say "I'm glad people are having fun with it" is a bad response. If she just said "my bad, guys - that was an oversight. I'll correct it on next week's ballot" then I think everyone would just move on. But a lot of people seem to adopt the "never admit when you make a mistake" approach these days.

Given her comments and saying "it probably doesn't matter," I think removing her as a voter for the rest of the season seems like a reasonable response.

ChatGPT:

Here’s a composite Top 25 ranking for college football as of Week 3 of the 2025 season, factoring in:

🔥 Offensive Efficiency: Points scored, yards per play, red zone conversion

🛡️ Defensive Efficiency: Points allowed, yards per play, third-down stops

📊 Strength of Schedule: Quality of opponents faced so far

This list blends insights from the latest Athlon Sports rankings, ESPN’s Football Power Index, and strength of schedule data:

Rank Team Record Key Strengths
1️⃣ Ohio State 2-0 Elite offense (70 pts vs Grambling), dominant defense2
2️⃣ Penn State 2-0 Top-tier defense (11 pts allowed in 2 games), balanced attack
3️⃣ Georgia 2-0 Stifling rush defense, consistent execution despite weather delays2
4️⃣ Texas 2-0 Strong bounce-back win, Arch Manning heating up
5️⃣ LSU 2-0 Defense locked down Louisiana Tech, solid win over Clemson
6️⃣ Oregon 2-0 Explosive offense (69 pts vs OK State), efficient QB play
7️⃣ Miami 2-0 Dominant defense, Carson Beck nearly perfect passing
8️⃣ Oklahoma 2-0 Big win over Michigan, rising offensive efficiency2
9️⃣ Alabama 1-1 Rebounded well, strong defensive metrics
🔟 USC 2-0 Balanced attack, improving defense
11 Notre Dame 1-1 Competitive vs Miami, solid fundamentals
12 Tennessee 2-0 High-scoring offense, facing Georgia next3
13 Utah 2-0 Strong schedule, physical defense
14 Texas A&M 2-0 Efficient ground game, SEC-tested
15 Missouri 2-0 Beat Kansas, rising defensive metrics
16 Ole Miss 2-0 Explosive offense, improving schedule strength
17 South Florida 2-0 Upset Florida, efficient scoring
18 Clemson 1-1 Struggled vs LSU, but defense still solid2
19 Florida State 1-1 Scored 77 in Week 2, but schedule strength mixed
20 Michigan 1-1 Lost to Oklahoma, but tough schedule
21 TCU 2-0 Balanced team, rising in Big 12
22 Kansas 1-1 Competitive vs Missouri, solid metrics
23 SMU 1-1 Strong offensive showing, needs defensive boost
24 Arizona State 1-1 Lost to Mississippi State, but schedule is tough
25 Nebraska 2-0 Scored 68 in Week 2, improving efficiency

Texas is 1-1 not 2-0 and Florida State is 2-0 not 1-1. Seems ChatGPT messed up also. Also crazy how far ahead they have Bama when Florida State made them look downright bad.

So ChatGPT is running at the equivalent of bottom quartile AP voter. That's progress.

And I’ve been having the debate with my cohost the last few days about what we value. I’ve pushed the S&P+ ratings system because it’s data driven and takes your opponent (including what you should do against them) into account, yet he keeps saying he values the polls more the data. How can you value polls when this voter admits she doesn’t take it seriously?

APPdiesel wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 8:44 am

And I’ve been having the debate with my cohost the last few days about what we value. I’ve pushed the S&P+ ratings system because it’s data driven and takes your opponent (including what you should do against them) into account, yet he keeps saying he values the polls more the data. How can you value polls when this voter admits she doesn’t take it seriously?

100% with you. If a voter won't take their vote seriously enough to make sure they get it right then I don't see how we can take the poll seriously either. That vote was pure laziness.

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 8:58 am

APPdiesel wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 8:44 am

And I’ve been having the debate with my cohost the last few days about what we value. I’ve pushed the S&P+ ratings system because it’s data driven and takes your opponent (including what you should do against them) into account, yet he keeps saying he values the polls more the data. How can you value polls when this voter admits she doesn’t take it seriously?

100% with you. If a voter won't take their vote seriously enough to make sure they get it right then I don't see how we can take the poll seriously either. That vote was pure laziness.

How many human voters actually watch all of the games and the teams each week? Most of the time you can simply pencil in the usual top 10 or so. Wait 6 games and let the computer figure it out

I think there's a place for both computer rankings and human voters. Polls have their flaws, but I don't think one voter making a dumb oversight in week 2 completely invalidates the whole concept.

Also, AI still makes a lot of basic mistakes, computer rankings are only as good as the humans who design them, and any computer system you create, teams will figure out a way to game it. See basketball teams running up the score on cupcakes to boost their NET rating.

EastHallApp wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 10:48 am

I think there's a place for both computer rankings and human voters. Polls have their flaws, but I don't think one voter making a dumb oversight in week 2 completely invalidates the whole concept.

Also, AI still makes a lot of basic mistakes, computer rankings are only as good as the humans who design them, and any computer system you create, teams will figure out a way to game it. See basketball teams running up the score on cupcakes to boost their NET rating.

This is pure supposition, but I'd be willing to bet she's not the only one who puts a lackluster amount of thought into her ballot. If 1 person screws up, it's not a big deal, but if 10, 15, 20 do, then it does invalidate the process. Most AP voters are working media with another job to do...this is just a "fun" side job they have to do. And quoting Josh Pate on his show, "where do you think the CFP voters get their base line information from? The AP polls".

Bigdaddyg1 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 9:58 am

AppStFan1 wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 8:58 am

APPdiesel wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 8:44 am

And I’ve been having the debate with my cohost the last few days about what we value. I’ve pushed the S&P+ ratings system because it’s data driven and takes your opponent (including what you should do against them) into account, yet he keeps saying he values the polls more the data. How can you value polls when this voter admits she doesn’t take it seriously?

100% with you. If a voter won't take their vote seriously enough to make sure they get it right then I don't see how we can take the poll seriously either. That vote was pure laziness.

How many human voters actually watch all of the games and the teams each week? Most of the time you can simply pencil in the usual top 10 or so. Wait 6 games and let the computer figure it out

It is impossible to watch them all but good voters watch as much as possible and spend time going through box scores to see how the game went. She made the laziest mistake possible assuming how a game would go instead of seeing how it finished. Their deadline to turn in a ballot is usually Sunday morning and the USF game was not like a midnight eastern start time, which still would not be a good excuse. Honestly, I believe ballots are your opinion but to drop USF and move UF up is so bad she should lose her voting rights for the rest of the year, at minimum. There is no plausible excuse other than laziness and you can't be a lazy voter.

Polls are just someones guess. They really mean absolutly nothing. There is no way to rank one team over another if they have not played each nother. Fun to look at but mean nothing.

APPdiesel wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 11:02 am

EastHallApp wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 11, 2025 10:48 am

I think there's a place for both computer rankings and human voters. Polls have their flaws, but I don't think one voter making a dumb oversight in week 2 completely invalidates the whole concept.

Also, AI still makes a lot of basic mistakes, computer rankings are only as good as the humans who design them, and any computer system you create, teams will figure out a way to game it. See basketball teams running up the score on cupcakes to boost their NET rating.

This is pure supposition, but I'd be willing to bet she's not the only one who puts a lackluster amount of thought into her ballot. If 1 person screws up, it's not a big deal, but if 10, 15, 20 do, then it does invalidate the process. Most AP voters are working media with another job to do...this is just a "fun" side job they have to do. And quoting Josh Pate on his show, "where do you think the CFP voters get their base line information from? The AP polls".

I would argue that you can put together a pretty credible top 25 ballot by simply following the sport fairly closely (which obviously any sportswriter is already doing) and then spending a few minutes checking the scores and standings each week.

You can do a deep dive of analytics and film study on every team if you want, but the returns diminish pretty quickly on that.