Appalachian State Announces Program Eliminations and Consolidations with Final Report Released Dec. 16

http://www.hcpress.com/news/appalachian ... ec-16.html

Maddog1956 wrote:Appalachian State Announces Program Eliminations and Consolidations with Final Report Released Dec. 16

http://www.hcpress.com/news/appalachian ... ec-16.html

Not good. While I understand the need or desire to eliminate programs no one enrolls in, one line in the story is very upsetting.
"Many eliminations were rationalized citing availability at other universities, insufficient demand and low productivity."

What's wrong with my university and why can't the other folks cut it?

Maddog1956 wrote:Appalachian State Announces Program Eliminations and Consolidations with Final Report Released Dec. 16

http://www.hcpress.com/news/appalachian ... ec-16.html

Eliminating "Business Education", have to go to uncgay now. But all of the new teachers in my department came in lateral entry with a regular business degree.

I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

This appears to be the results of a system-wide study that was started 2 years ago. Here is an article from the daily TarHeel that explains the study which kicked off in 2011 to curb budgetary concerns. Wish the article linked to better
Explained this situation rather than just stated App was consolidating and eliminating.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/m/index.php ... _eliminate

"Every two years, the board (of gov's) asks each university to evaluate programs that graduated a low amount of majors."

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

appst89 wrote:

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

I understand program creep and that if no one is taking the programs maybe they're not needed, but it's not the same if they close a program at UNC and it's offered at State, for example. I'd like to see location added as a factor and local factors. AppState wasn't really created to be a job mill or cookie cutter school. Programs such as Appalachian Studies help people understand the unique culture that is slowly dying. Some such programs aren't designed to be full or training for getting a job.

I know there has to be benchmarks, etc, but we have to allow uniqueness also and some lost leader have to be offered.

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

Your hope is in vain, I fear.

appst89 wrote:

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

Which programs have UNC-CH cut?

JCline0429 wrote:

appst89 wrote:

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

Which programs have UNC-CH cut?

Google.

appst89 wrote:

JCline0429 wrote:

appst89 wrote:

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

Which programs have UNC-CH cut?

Google.

I can't believe we can't successfully defend the saving of these programs: Graduate programs that are identified for elimination include: child development, romance languages, criminal justice, music education, history education and gerontology.
I don't see a one which can't lead to jobs. We don't have a true law school, but criminal justice programs lead to jobs. Sure the pay isn't that attractive, but there are many positions for a CJ graduates in NC . Sure many get jobs after only the completion of two year degrees, but so do accountants for example. Many use CJ degrees as a stepping stone to law schools.
Sure times are tough, but I can't believe that the University can't find other things to cut. The return on the dollar, in my opinion shouldn't seemingly be the only consideration.


According to Gov McRory, a ton of the University system's liberal arts programs should be in jeopardy but that doesn't mean they are..

appst89 wrote:

JCline0429 wrote:

appst89 wrote:

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

Which programs have UNC-CH cut?

Google.

I was speaking rhetorically. I'm still PO'd about Broyhill closing without a replacement of some kind. I'd bet a dollar to a donut, it wouldn't have been closed at UNC or NCSU.

JCline0429 wrote: I can't believe we can't successfully defend the saving of these programs: Graduate programs that are identified for elimination include: child development, romance languages, criminal justice, music education, history education and gerontology.
I don't see a one which can't lead to jobs. We don't have a true law school, but criminal justice programs lead to jobs. Sure the pay isn't that attractive, but there are many positions for a CJ graduates in NC . Sure many get jobs after only the completion of two year degrees, but so do accountants for example. Many use CJ degrees as a stepping stone to law schools.
Sure times are tough, but I can't believe that the University can't find other things to cut. The return on the dollar, in my opinion shouldn't seemingly be the only consideration.


According to Gov McRory, a ton of the University system's liberal arts programs should be in jeopardy but that doesn't mean they are..

Many of those graduate programs lead to jobs, but they are also the types of programs that professionals tend to enroll in several years after they have entered the work force. They rely on non-traditional students attending part time to fill classes. In a small town like Boone, you aren't going to have the necessary work force to sustain these. I know plenty of people looking for a CJ graduate degree, but they can't just stop being a cop for 2 years to go to Boone and complete the program. It could be offered online, as many other universities do, but the competition for those students is huge. It may not be worth it to App to try.

JCline0429 wrote:

appst89 wrote:

JCline0429 wrote:

appst89 wrote:

Saint3333 wrote:I hope al other NC universities are under the same pressure.

I got the impression that all schools were doing the assessment, but not to the extent that ASU did. Somewhere in that article it says that a study indicated App had the highest degree of program creep in the UNC system.

I hate to see this happen, but it will ultimately make us even better.

Which programs have UNC-CH cut?

Google.

I was speaking rhetorically. I'm still PO'd about Broyhill closing without a replacement of some kind. I'd bet a dollar to a donut, it wouldn't have been closed at UNC or NCSU.

You may be right. We, unfortunately, lack the political clout to salvage things like the Broyhill. I do know that the Broyhill was far from being self-sustaining. It took a considerable amount of support from the university to keep it going every year. When the budgets were slashed, App could no longer provide the institutional support to keep it open. The building was not suited for any other use. The cost to upgrade it for use as a dorm exceeded the cost to build a new dorm. Under the circumstances, I don't know what else could have been done.

JCline0429 wrote: According to Gov McRory, a ton of the University system's liberal arts programs should be in jeopardy but that doesn't mean they are..

McCrory and his repug cronies are trying to kill the public education system. When our Gov was in Belmont this summer speaking to business leaders he said "our children have been brainwashed into believing they need a college education. It is not true in China and it is not true here. There are good jobs for kids that do not go to college". I heard it with my own ears not second hand.

Anyone complaining needs to look at the constantly inflating cost of education...it comes largely from unnecessary majors that call for exorbitant salaries for their professors. Public Education needs to tighten the belt harder than most industries...and McRory knows that.

appbio91 wrote:

JCline0429 wrote: According to Gov McRory, a ton of the University system's liberal arts programs should be in jeopardy but that doesn't mean they are..

McCrory and his repug cronies are trying to kill the public education system. When our Gov was in Belmont this summer speaking to business leaders he said "our children have been brainwashed into believing they need a college education. It is not true in China and it is not true here. There are good jobs for kids that do not go to college". I heard it with my own ears not second hand.

This process was started under Guv Bev's watch in '10 and '11 (probably even before). See the article linked to above from chapel hill in '11. I am not trying to get into a pissing match, just pointing out this is not a 100% mcrory/repub issue. Regardless, while it stinks, the current times we find ourselelves in, fiscal responsibility is of utmost importance. If we continue down the current path with out cuting excess expenses, higher education will become more and more unaffordable. Personally, I find it quite amazing we have made it as long as we have without scaling back more programs. I firmly put that accomplishment at the hands of Peacock and his Business/accounting background which prepared him to navigate the turbulent waters of the last decade and put our fine institution in the best position he could. My hope is our next chancellor has a similar business background as it is obvious from this unfortunate annoucement this week, that times are still tough and difficult "business" decisions remain to keep Appalachian on top academically.

Put it this way...They wouldn't eliminate programs that attract undergrad applicants. This is a pragmatic decision. Academics aren't in the mode of firing other academics.

appgrad wrote:Anyone complaining needs to look at the constantly inflating cost of education...it comes largely from unnecessary majors that call for exorbitant salaries for their professors. Public Education needs to tighten the belt harder than most industries...and McRory knows that.

Who decides what are "unnecessary majors"? Majors that lead to people improving peoples lives or creating knowledge or just majors that leads to jobs. Should the belt me tighten so much that graduates can just get blue collar jobs and industries can retain more profits? Mcrory knows that he's being bankrolled by big industries and the more he can do to keep people down the more it benefits his backers.

Please explain the brain dead logic of your last sentence. Do corporations not employ mostly college grads? How do they benefit by a smaller talent pool or less skilled work force? If you're 57, I'd hope you're smarter than that..