This would be Very Bad for AppState and UNC System

[APPARJ]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

Nanny? Really?

I come down on the side of those who think that you're, generally speaking, awfully arrogant to question or challenge another apparently sincere Mountaineer's statement. What are your qualifications to make broad generalizations about careers? Are you a Fortune 100 corporation HR exec or something?

I'm going to assume that you misread my sincere question as sarcasm. I genuinely asked him a question.

My qualifications come from having friends and family members (and a wife) who graduated with undergrad degrees (with a lot of debt) that either didn't get them good jobs and or forced them to continue on to graduate school (with more debt).

Calling me arrogant for holding an opinion won't change my outlook.

[EastHallApp]

My degree is one that is practical in that it opens doors directly to jobs. I am a practical person so I prefer that, but college is not just about getting a job. It is also about learning about the world around you. Those less "pratical" degrees are needed on campuses to help out in the well-rounded nature of the education on any campus.

Agreed. Few points here.

1) The value of a college education to the public isn't just to train the future workforce; it's also to provide a more educated and critical citizenry that can hold its institutions accountable.

2) People who criticize liberal arts education frequently cite the "what job will it get you out of college?" question. But even in terms of career preparation, that's only part of the issue (and arguably not the biggest part). Industries change and evolve. Your education shouldn't just prepare you for a job right out of college (though certainly there's great value in that); it should prepare you for a career. That means critical thinking skills, adaptability, a well-rounded base of knowledge, etc. And I believe studies have found (don't have the links immediately handy) that a liberal arts education is actually more valuable at preparing people to be lifelong learners than a specialized education, which is why many companies actually prefer people with those degrees.

3) Regardless of one's personal view of liberal arts education, it is certainly a factor in why UNC system universities rank so highly in national rankings. If you de-emphasize liberal arts, those rankings are going to drop. And if those rankings drop, the UNC system is no longer the draw that it has long been for businesses and professionals looking to locate or relocate in NC, which could damage the state's economy long-term.

[asu66]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

Nanny? Really?

I come down on the side of those who think that you're, generally speaking, awfully arrogant to question or challenge another apparently sincere Mountaineer's statement. What are your qualifications to make broad generalizations about careers? Are you a Fortune 100 corporation HR exec or something?

I'm going to assume that you misread my sincere question as sarcasm. I genuinely asked him a question.

My qualifications come from having friends and family members (and a wife) who graduated with undergrad degrees (with a lot of debt) that either didn't get them good jobs and or forced them to continue on to graduate school (with more debt).

Calling me arrogant for holding an opinion won't change my outlook.

It did "sound" like a rude put-down. I have no intention of trying to change your outlook. You might consider a somewhat more civil way of conversing with a fellow Mountaineer. But that's just me!

[HighlandsApp]

Well said EastHallApp.

Learning and Graduating from college is as much a learning/life skills test where one learns critical thinking as it is a place to gain a specific job. Graduate, Doctoral, Trade Schools and NC Community Colleges are where specific career/job skill training occurs most often. The NC Community College System is an incredible asset for our state, but it too is seeing budget and program cuts.

[APPARJ]

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

Nanny? Really?

I come down on the side of those who think that you're, generally speaking, awfully arrogant to question or challenge another apparently sincere Mountaineer's statement. What are your qualifications to make broad generalizations about careers? Are you a Fortune 100 corporation HR exec or something?

I'm going to assume that you misread my sincere question as sarcasm. I genuinely asked him a question.

My qualifications come from having friends and family members (and a wife) who graduated with undergrad degrees (with a lot of debt) that either didn't get them good jobs and or forced them to continue on to graduate school (with more debt).

Calling me arrogant for holding an opinion won't change my outlook.

It did "sound" like a rude put-down. I have no intention of trying to change your outlook. You might consider a somewhat more civil way of conversing with a fellow Mountaineer. But that's just me!

It's very difficult to know when someone is trying to be rude/sarcastic through written words so I understand the misinterpretation. I don't feel I was being uncivil as I was genuinely curious as to what his story was regarding his post-App path.

[APPARJ]

My degree is one that is practical in that it opens doors directly to jobs. I am a practical person so I prefer that, but college is not just about getting a job. It is also about learning about the world around you. Those less "pratical" degrees are needed on campuses to help out in the well-rounded nature of the education on any campus.

Agreed. Few points here.

1) The value of a college education to the public isn't just to train the future workforce; it's also to provide a more educated and critical citizenry that can hold its institutions accountable.

2) People who criticize liberal arts education frequently cite the "what job will it get you out of college?" question. But even in terms of career preparation, that's only part of the issue (and arguably not the biggest part). Industries change and evolve. Your education shouldn't just prepare you for a job right out of college (though certainly there's great value in that); it should prepare you for a career. That means critical thinking skills, adaptability, a well-rounded base of knowledge, etc. And I believe studies have found (don't have the links immediately handy) that a liberal arts education is actually more valuable at preparing people to be lifelong learners than a specialized education, which is why many companies actually prefer people with those degrees.

3) Regardless of one's personal view of liberal arts education, it is certainly a factor in why UNC system universities rank so highly in national rankings. If you de-emphasize liberal arts, those rankings are going to drop. And if those rankings drop, the UNC system is no longer the draw that it has long been for businesses and professionals looking to locate or relocate in NC, which could damage the state's economy long-term.

Nice post and I agree with most of what you say. I am not suggesting that App State become a trade school. However, I do feel that Universities have become watered down today in order to serve more students (tuition). That's just my take.

[AppSt94]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

I am an Internal Auditor for a banking technology company.

To answer your question on what a 22 year old do with a sociology degree is the same thing that a person with an accounting degree. They can go to work each day and gain experience and knowledge to further advance their career.

I took your "generally speaking" comment in the same way I take people saying "bless his heart" right after paying them a backhanded compliment.

[WVAPPeer]

My degree is one that is practical in that it opens doors directly to jobs. I am a practical person so I prefer that, but college is not just about getting a job. It is also about learning about the world around you. Those less "pratical" degrees are needed on campuses to help out in the well-rounded nature of the education on any campus.

As far as UNC-P. I realize the average student enrolling there is not at the same level as some of the other colleges in the state. Those students need a chance as well, and to be honest I have been very impressed with the programs I have worked with at UNC-P. They do a lot with what they have in resources. And if some of these schools have a high drop-out rate. Well, I am ok with that. Better to give the students a chance than not.

We could shut down every school in the state and have one or two big universities in the state. I would not prefer that. I say share the wealth around the state. What does the extreme west have to replace WCU? What does the Pembroke area have to replace UNC-P? Even if you keep a campus open but cut many programs the school is not viable. A physics major is not required to have a Chem or Bio major, but one does need some physics in either degree as just one example.

I am not saying there is no waste in state gov't. But that waste may actually not be waste but the money for someone to have a job-a job that puts money back in the economy by spending the income in a variety of ways.

Outstanding comments McLeansville !!!

[APPARJ]

I'm not against eliminating departments that do not help students find jobs upon graduation. If you graduate from App State (Walker COB, baby!) with an accounting degree, you'll get a job. I promise. If you graduate with a sociology degree, I hope you have good connections in your hometown that need a good nanny (generally speaking, of course.)

I get what you are saying in your entire post but this section that I cut is pretty arrogant. I have a degree in Sociology from App and I am doing well for myself.

Serious question, what do you do? Did you happen to get a masters or JD somewhere else?

Better yet, what can a 22 year old with a sociology degree do fresh out of school today?

Please note that I said "generally speaking." Of course there are exceptions like you. I'm genuinely happy that you've done well for yourself but for the most part what I said is true.

I am an Internal Auditor for a banking technology company.

To answer your question on what a 22 year old do with a sociology degree is the same thing that a person with an accounting degree. They can go to work each day and gain experience and knowledge to further advance their career.

I took your "generally speaking" comment in the same way I take people saying "bless his heart" right after paying them a backhanded compliment.

That's unfortunate because that's not what I meant.

We would disagree in advising an 18 year old on which degree to pursue but that's okay with me.

[AppSt94]

I think that we would probably advise an 18 year old the same way. I would encourage anyone with acumen to pursue an accounting or engineering degree to do so. But honestly not everyone can be an accountant or engineer. Most of the other degrees offered by universities are offered out of a need for those type careers. And not every degree is a guarantee for success in that field. A degree of any kind demonstrates a commitment and shows an employer that you can be trained. As a point of fact, the VP of HR Services for Food Lion has a degree in Biology and a Masters in Environmental Studies. She got in the door with her degree and worked her way up through hard work. Your point on the ROI of a degree is valid but getting a degree in a career minded field is not always necessary.

[APPARJ]

I think that we would probably advise an 18 year old the same way. I would encourage anyone with acumen to pursue an accounting or engineering degree to do so. But honestly not everyone can be an accountant or engineer. Most of the other degrees offered by universities are offered out of a need for those type careers. And not every degree is a guarantee for success in that field. A degree of any kind demonstrates a commitment and shows an employer that you can be trained. As a point of fact, the VP of HR Services for Food Lion has a degree in Biology and a Masters in Environmental Studies. She got in the door with her degree and worked her way up through hard work. Your point on the ROI of a degree is valid but getting a degree in a career minded field is not always necessary.

That's 100% correct and "generally speaking" I agree.

My boss was educated as an electrical engineer and for the last 15 years has been a marketing executive.

[wdhsbcsasu]

PENSKE requires 4 year degree to work there. Many other business will not look at you without 4 year degree, also many county and cities require 4 year degrees, in any area.

[bcoach]

This one doesn't need to go to the Politics folder just yet.

good because you will not let me in there

[bcoach]

All I can say about this is that the business leaders keep crying that we are not preparing the workforce for the skills that are needed. Thousands of jobs go unfilled because of the lack of qualified applicants. At the same time thousands of graduates can't find jobs. Sounds to me like there is a disconnect.

[appst89]

This one doesn't need to go to the Politics folder just yet.

good because you will not let me in there

All you have to do is ask.

[bcoach]

This one doesn't need to go to the Politics folder just yet.

good because you will not let me in there

All you have to do is ask.

I have twice. must be some technical problem.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I posted how to do this but it did not take.

Don't ask, but check out control panels and the usergroups. Find Politics - select and then submit which is at the bottom of the window.

If that is what you have been doing then there must be a problem with the tech end.

[appst89]

This one doesn't need to go to the Politics folder just yet.

good because you will not let me in there

All you have to do is ask.

I have twice. must be some technical problem.

I apologize for the trouble. I checked, but there aren't any requests. You have been added.

[bcoach]

This one doesn't need to go to the Politics folder just yet.

good because you will not let me in there

All you have to do is ask.

I have twice. must be some technical problem.

I apologize for the trouble. I checked, but there aren't any requests. You have been added.

Thanks for the help

[NewApp]

Tom Ross was forced out as System President last week.

Art Pope has stated that he wants to be University President. His father's legacy foundation only does work to dismantle public education.

Surprisingly there are a few on UNC Board of Governors with AppState ties, but it is almost exclusively UNCCH board.

Here Pope wants fewer students to go to University and go to Community College instead:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1725

Here College Education Not worth the Investment:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1541

Here is Pope argument that AppState and all UNC System Schools unfairly HURT Private Colleges and Universities in NC:
http://www.popecenter.org/inquiry_paper ... ml?id=1541

HA, you are spot on about Art Pope, as I am well aware of Pope's nefarious inclinations due to the fact that one of his protégés is rep for my district, none other than Justin Burr. Have heard Burr's speeches many times as well as following him on FACEBOOK.