BOG eliminates 46 degree programs across UNC

[scatman77]

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/201 ... unc-system

Appalachian State University: Family and Consumer Sciences, Secondary Education; Technology Education; Mathematics, Education

Does this mean that a premier teacher education university, the best in the southeast, will now no longer prepare teachers? If so doesn't NC realize they have a teacher shortage?

[appgrouch]

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/201 ... unc-system

Appalachian State University: Family and Consumer Sciences, Secondary Education; Technology Education; Mathematics, Education

Does this mean that a premier teacher education university, the best in the southeast, will now no longer prepare teachers? If so doesn't NC realize they have a teacher shortage?

No, it means the writer and the editor need to go back to class.

The main teaching degree is still going strong. There are some of the secondary studies/concentrations that are being eliminated or combined with other programs. The Health Education Program has been combined with the PE Teacher Program to create a dual certificate program as an example. The K-12 Education programs are still going strong.

[Gonzo]

I posted this on the UNC thread yesterday.

Here's the comprehensive list of programs that will be eliminated. Sorry for the format, I just copied and pasted from the PDF. (Full PDF: http://www.northcarolina.edu/apps/bog/i ... 9&code=bog Click on item 7 of the education planning committee. Appendix F once you're in the PDF which has the full list of programs with "low productivity" which are the ones to be cut.)

ASU
B
131308
Family and Consumer Sciences, Secondary Education
B
131309
Technology Education
M
131311
Mathematics, Education
ECSU
B
131001
Special Education, General Curriculum
B
131203
Middle Grades Education
B
131305
English, Secondary Education
B
451001
Political Science
ECU
B
131325
French K-12
B
131326
German K-12
B
131330
Hispanic Studies Education
B
160501
German
B
160901
French
B
540105
Public History
M
131006
Special Education, Intellectual Disabilities
M
131319
Vocational Education
FSU
B
131302
Art Education
B
131312
Music Education
B
261201
Biotechnology
NCAT
B
131316
Comprehensive Science Education
M
131314
Physical Education
NCCU
B
500501
Theatre
B
500910
Jazz
NCSU
B
50201
Africana Studies
B
50207
Women’s and Gender Studies
B
131310
Business and Marketing Education
RD
260901
Physiology
UNCC
B
190701
Child and Family Development
M
131099
Special Education, Adapted Curriculum
M
131305
English Education
M
131311
Mathematics Education
UNC-CH
B
260910
Human Biology
27
Campus
Degree Level
CIP
Program Title
UNCG
B
131311
Mathematics, Secondary Education (BA)
B
131311
Mathematics, Secondary Education (BS)
B
131317
Economics, Secondary Education
B
131322
Biology, Secondary Education (BA)
B
131322
Biology, Secondary Education (BS)
B
500904
Composition
M
131399
Latin Education
M
260202
Biochemistry
UNCSA
M
500699
Film Music Composition
UNCW
B
131314
Physical Education and Health
B
500903
Music Performance
WCU
B
510706
Health Information Administration
WSSU
B
261201
Biotechnology
M
131202
Elementary Education
M
131401
Teaching English as a Second Language and Linguistics

[Saint3333]

NC State loses African Studies... I can only imagine what is said over on their board.

[Gonzo]

He is correct to identify education as the common denominator re: low productivity (ie lack of interest -- no one is signing up for them so they're being cut) system wide, not just at App. Undoubtedly a symptom of Raleigh's declining report with teachers. Nobody wants to be a teacher. Who can blame them?

I counted 28 education programs of the 46.

[asu66]

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/201 ... unc-system

Appalachian State University: Family and Consumer Sciences, Secondary Education; Technology Education; Mathematics, Education

Does this mean that a premier teacher education university, the best in the southeast, will now no longer prepare teachers? If so doesn't NC realize they have a teacher shortage?

No, it means the writer and the editor need to go back to class.

The main teaching degree is still going strong. There are some of the secondary studies/concentrations that are being eliminated or combined with other programs. The Health Education Program has been combined with the PE Teacher Program to create a dual certificate program as an example. The K-12 Education programs are still going strong.

In the face of the nationwide emphasis on STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), just how does Appalachian and the BOG justify cutting "Technology Education and Mathematics Education?" I include ASU in that sentence because this cut and this wording came directly from our former (and recently deposed) Provost Lori Gonzalez. What a brilliant way for ASU to help schools improve their competitiveness with students from India, China, South Korea, et al in science and technology development.

[Gonzo]

In the face of the nationwide emphasis on STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), just how does Appalachian and the BOG justify cutting "Technology Education and Mathematics Education?" I include ASU in that sentence because this cut and this wording came directly from our former (and recently deposed) Provost Lori Gonzalez. What a brilliant way for ASU to help schools improve their competitiveness with students from India, China, South Korea, et al in science and technology development.

They were cut because no one was signing up for them. That was the one and only method the BOG used to select these 46 programs.

I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one.

[JTApps1]

In the face of the nationwide emphasis on STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), just how does Appalachian and the BOG justify cutting "Technology Education and Mathematics Education?" I include ASU in that sentence because this cut and this wording came directly from our former (and recently deposed) Provost Lori Gonzalez. What a brilliant way for ASU to help schools improve their competitiveness with students from India, China, South Korea, et al in science and technology development.

They were cut because no one was signing up for them. That was the one and only method the BOG used to select these 46 programs.

I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one.

We also need to remember that these were majors so some of this material will still be taught as part of other education degrees. If it frees up classroom space for high demand classes then I don't have a problem with it.

[Gonzo]

In the face of the nationwide emphasis on STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), just how does Appalachian and the BOG justify cutting "Technology Education and Mathematics Education?" I include ASU in that sentence because this cut and this wording came directly from our former (and recently deposed) Provost Lori Gonzalez. What a brilliant way for ASU to help schools improve their competitiveness with students from India, China, South Korea, et al in science and technology development.

They were cut because no one was signing up for them. That was the one and only method the BOG used to select these 46 programs.

I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one.

We also need to remember that these were majors so some of this material will still be taught as part of other education degrees. If it frees up classroom space for high demand classes then I don't have a problem with it.

That's right. I bet most of the 46 will be assimilated into other majors at each school. As much as I'd love to rabble about a UNC BOG decision, this is a way to help spend our tax dollars more efficiency using a pretty objective measuring stick.

Now when App gets our application for a new masters program denied while UNC Chapel Hill continues to offer everything under the sun, and there's nothing aside from Board discretion to justify the decision, we need to start sending our angry letters. The UNC BOG is a case study for conflicts of interest. Click on the magnifying glasses and look where the vast majority of this Board were educated: http://www.northcarolina.edu/apps/bog/members.htm

[asu66]

"I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one."

Well, in the big picture, you could argue with it very aggressively, but other arguments should come first. Public education in our state is in crisis and there are plenty of targets to share the blame at the local level, in pre K - 13, in higher ed. and in Raleigh. The growing poisonous atmosphere in Raleigh is a by-product of years and years of word-wars between politicians and NCAE/NEA--primarily over balancing the state budget on the backs of students and teachers; salary freezes and more recently the legislative attack on the teacher tenure law. Oh, did I mention that there's a plethora of stakeholders to share the blame?

One of the very obvious outcomes will be a teacher shortage that will challenge the wealthier school districts (Charlotte-Mecklenburg, Wake, Chapel Hill-Carboro, Guilford, Gaston, New Hanover, Winston-Salem/Forsyth, et al) and cripple the smaller, poorly funded districts. If the leadership of our state (at every level) doesn't find some common ground, and find it soon, there will be tremendous economic impact around the corner.

The coming crisis: Too few teachers for NC
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op- ... 21888.html

BEST NC - Business for Educational Success and Transformation / The Crisis
(North Carolina is facing a growing skills gap...)
http://best-nc.org/the-crisis/

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

"I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one."

Well, in the big picture, you could argue with it very aggressively, but other arguments should come first. Public education in our state is in crisis and there are plenty of targets to share the blame at the local level, in pre K - 13, in higher ed. and in Raleigh. The growing poisonous atmosphere in Raleigh is a by-product of years and years of word-wars between politicians and NCAE/NEA--primarily over balancing the state budget on the backs of students and teachers; salary freezes and more recently the legislative attack on the teacher tenure law. Oh, did I mention that there's a plethora of stakeholders to share the blame?

One of the very obvious outcomes will be a teacher shortage that will challenge the wealthier school districts (Charlotte-Mecklenburg, Wake, Chapel Hill-Carboro, Guilford, Gaston, New Hanover, Winston-Salem/Forsyth, et al) and cripple the smaller, poorly funded districts. If the leadership of our state (at every level) doesn't find some common ground, and find it soon, there will be tremendous economic impact around the corner.

The coming crisis: Too few teachers for NC
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op- ... 21888.html

BEST NC - Business for Educational Success and Transformation / The Crisis
(North Carolina is facing a growing skills gap...)
http://best-nc.org/the-crisis/

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

"I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one."

Well, in the big picture, you could argue with it very aggressively, but other arguments should come first. Public education in our state is in crisis and there are plenty of targets to share the blame at the local level, in pre K - 13, in higher ed. and in Raleigh. The growing poisonous atmosphere in Raleigh is a by-product of years and years of word-wars between politicians and NCAE/NEA--primarily over balancing the state budget on the backs of students and teachers; salary freezes and more recently the legislative attack on the teacher tenure law. Oh, did I mention that there's a plethora of stakeholders to share the blame?

One of the very obvious outcomes will be a teacher shortage that will challenge the wealthier school districts (Charlotte-Mecklenburg, Wake, Chapel Hill-Carboro, Guilford, Gaston, New Hanover, Winston-Salem/Forsyth, et al) and cripple the smaller, poorly funded districts. If the leadership of our state (at every level) doesn't find some common ground, and find it soon, there will be tremendous economic impact around the corner.

The coming crisis: Too few teachers for NC
http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op- ... 21888.html

BEST NC - Business for Educational Success and Transformation / The Crisis
(North Carolina is facing a growing skills gap...)
http://best-nc.org/the-crisis/

I am having all kinds of trouble with this website. Let me give it another go in a shorter post.

I posted something but it did not post beyond your part. Long story short - you assume the powers in Raleigh care. I don't think they care about the state at large, and would rather see a state in the toilet with a power structure on top that maintains that power than any general improvement to the state at-large.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

In the face of the nationwide emphasis on STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), just how does Appalachian and the BOG justify cutting "Technology Education and Mathematics Education?" I include ASU in that sentence because this cut and this wording came directly from our former (and recently deposed) Provost Lori Gonzalez. What a brilliant way for ASU to help schools improve their competitiveness with students from India, China, South Korea, et al in science and technology development.

They were cut because no one was signing up for them. That was the one and only method the BOG used to select these 46 programs.

I hate the BOG system because of the Tar Heel-dominated board etc, but you can't really argue with their methodology on this one.

We also need to remember that these were majors so some of this material will still be taught as part of other education degrees. If it frees up classroom space for high demand classes then I don't have a problem with it.

This happened a few years ago and we talked about this at that time on this or the previous board. I have mixed feelings and I am not sure how this really saves any money in some cases. My major which is a BS Physics-Secondary Ed is not listed anymore, but one can still get a degree in the fine P&A department at ASU. I was talking to some of the profs last spring about this as it did bother me and I was taking it a bit personally to be honest. But it is still an option under a different code of a general BS degree. Some of these programs and degrees may be gone but others may be hiding in a corner of the department or not even hiding at all. App graduates a physics-sec ed major every few years on average, or that was the case until recently. The state could use more physics teachers, but I am not sure we need App sending out 5 or 6 a year either.

I would say this. Some degrees do not need lots of grads each year. The market can only take so much of some degrees. Having few graduates or even only one every few years may be perfect for what is needed. Are they looking at raw numbers or lots of inputs and outputs on these decisions.

[BTK2000]

Isn't this part of the Ed department moving control of the majors to the individual colleges? So a bio education degree is now controlled by the bio department instead of the Ed department.

edit
I'm certain this isn't a conspiracy by the hill to destroy other schools as much as many here would like it to be.
http://rcoe.appstate.edu/academics/undergraduate-majors
Every time you click on a program of study it sends you to that colleges website instead of the college of education.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Isn't this part of the Ed department moving control of the majors to the individual colleges? So a bio education degree is now controlled by the bio department instead of the Ed department.

As far as I know the secondary degrees have always been housed in the specific departments. At least that has been the case in "University" times. I took some classes in RCOE of course but it was the Physics and Astronomy Dept that had final say on me getting a degree or not. For my wife it was the Chemistry Dept as she has a degree in Chem - Sec Ed from App. I think the same has been true for Bio or Geology as well. I can't imagine only a few depts having that connection and not others.

Edit:
Those links make sense to me. In the case of Physics - Ed I think Dr. Allen is stepping away from this program but that is another issue.

[BTK2000]

Isn't this part of the Ed department moving control of the majors to the individual colleges? So a bio education degree is now controlled by the bio department instead of the Ed department.

As far as I know the secondary degrees have always been housed in the specific departments. At least that has been the case in "University" times. I took some classes in RCOE of course but it was the Physics and Astronomy Dept that had final say on me getting a degree or not. For my wife it was the Chemistry Dept as she has a degree in Chem - Sec Ed from App. I think the same has been true for Bio or Geology as well. I can't imagine only a few depts having that connection and not others.

Edit:
Those links make sense to me. In the case of Physics - Ed I think Dr. Allen is stepping away from this program but that is another issue.

Ok that makes perfect sense to me. Reading through the posts it appeared people think the Rcoe is being gutted. I like knowing that a hs chem teacher has a chem degree

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Isn't this part of the Ed department moving control of the majors to the individual colleges? So a bio education degree is now controlled by the bio department instead of the Ed department.

As far as I know the secondary degrees have always been housed in the specific departments. At least that has been the case in "University" times. I took some classes in RCOE of course but it was the Physics and Astronomy Dept that had final say on me getting a degree or not. For my wife it was the Chemistry Dept as she has a degree in Chem - Sec Ed from App. I think the same has been true for Bio or Geology as well. I can't imagine only a few depts having that connection and not others.

Edit:
Those links make sense to me. In the case of Physics - Ed I think Dr. Allen is stepping away from this program but that is another issue.

Ok that makes perfect sense to me. Reading through the posts it appeared people think the Rcoe is being gutted. I like knowing that a hs chem teacher has a chem degree

122 makes a BS degree I think or it did.. About 60 is general liberal arts classes I guess. or is it 30 for general ed classes. So about 60-90 for the dept major courses. Is that correct? I keep all of this paperwork in a box at my school until the fire. I could have looked all this up for those interested those programs have changed some I am sure.

Of my 60-90 hours in physics and non gen ed glasses took 3 in Bio, 3 in Geo, 3 in geography, but that may have been for general ed, and 12 in Chem. I took 20 hours of math and got a minor without trying. Of the hours left about half was in RCOE and about 1/2 was Physics courses if memory serves me correctly. To be clear I did not take a few physics courses others did but I do have a physics degree. I think that is pretty much the same for the other sci ed degrees, though none of the other took as much math as me I am sure. I had through Differential Equations, which is basically Calculus IV. I think Chem took through Calc II, and I have no idea about Bio or Geo.

[DaphneUrquhart]

Isn't this part of the Ed department moving control of the majors to the individual colleges? So a bio education degree is now controlled by the bio department instead of the Ed department.

As far as I know the secondary degrees have always been housed in the specific departments. At least that has been the case in "University" times. I took some classes in RCOE of course but it was the Physics and Astronomy Dept that had final say on me getting a degree or not. For my wife it was the Chemistry Dept as she has a degree in Chem - Sec Ed from App. I think the same has been true for Bio or Geology as well. I can't imagine only a few depts having that connection and not others.

Edit:
Those links make sense to me. In the case of Physics - Ed I think Dr. Allen is stepping away from this program but that is another issue.

I know my brother's degree is in biology and not in education. He retired from teaching high school biology / AP bio (and coaching and being an AD) after putting in his 30 years with the NC system. It doesn't surprise me to see majors consolidated or to see the administration of the various majors streamlined.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Isn't this part of the Ed department moving control of the majors to the individual colleges? So a bio education degree is now controlled by the bio department instead of the Ed department.

As far as I know the secondary degrees have always been housed in the specific departments. At least that has been the case in "University" times. I took some classes in RCOE of course but it was the Physics and Astronomy Dept that had final say on me getting a degree or not. For my wife it was the Chemistry Dept as she has a degree in Chem - Sec Ed from App. I think the same has been true for Bio or Geology as well. I can't imagine only a few depts having that connection and not others.

Edit:
Those links make sense to me. In the case of Physics - Ed I think Dr. Allen is stepping away from this program but that is another issue.

I know my brother's degree is in biology and not in education. He retired from teaching high school biology / AP bio (and coaching and being an AD) after putting in his 30 years with the NC system. It doesn't surprise me to see majors consolidated or to see the administration of the various majors streamlined.

I had to look up my transcript to send to someone today. I had 149 credit hours. Is that normal? That is more than I remember though I did two summer schools, and took a lot of 18/19 hour semester, though I also took 12 hours one semester as a senior for the senior physics course that was a lot of work for 3 hours credit. No wonder I was on the 4 1/2 year plan.