Coastal Carolina

[AppSt94]

Im a little confused why people keep singling out the corners. Sherm and Jolly, etc seem to be playing pretty tight coverage on the outside. We seem to be getting beat in the middle (either passing in the middle or swing out and run to the middle). To me this comes on the LB's and Safeties. As others have said, it seems like our LBs are playing way close to the line essentially leaving the safeties alone in the middle. I dont have extensive knowledge in the X's and O's, but seems more like a slight scheme adjustment.

That said, i dont even think its all scheme. All around this year on D we have missed assignments and tackles. To me, this is directly on the coaches. We seem well coached on O, on ST, but not so much on D.

If we are missing a player the most, i would say its stout. His ability to handle two people and free up the LB's was under appreciated.

Jolly and SJC are playing well for guys that are first year starters. They are just the victims of being next man up for two REALLy good corners.

[BeauFoster]

Im a little confused why people keep singling out the corners. Sherm and Jolly, etc seem to be playing pretty tight coverage on the outside. We seem to be getting beat in the middle (either passing in the middle or swing out and run to the middle). To me this comes on the LB's and Safeties. As others have said, it seems like our LBs are playing way close to the line essentially leaving the safeties alone in the middle. I dont have extensive knowledge in the X's and O's, but seems more like a slight scheme adjustment.

That said, i dont even think its all scheme. All around this year on D we have missed assignments and tackles. To me, this is directly on the coaches. We seem well coached on O, on ST, but not so much on D.

If we are missing a player the most, i would say its stout. His ability to handle two people and free up the LB's was under appreciated.

Since everyone else likes to toot their own horns, I have to point out that I made mention of Stout graduating as one of the biggest obstacles for this upcoming season.

[ericsaid]

I like Roof just fine. I didn't like his Game Plan and lack of adjusting to what Charlotte did. I wasn't one of 200 people who posted in the "Hate Roof" thread either.

And I think that is a reasonable concern. But here’s the thing; we don’t know that they, (Roof and Drink) felt about what adjustments needed to be made. Given the film available from Charlotte’s game with GW, the game plan seemed simple, stop the run and make Reynolds and the passing game beat you. Based on the first half performance, it seemed to work for the most part. What Reynolds did in the second half was considerably different in terms of past performance. Drink’s comments after the game suggested that he was never worried about the outcome. Was that out of arrogance, truth, or was that coach speak to mask a mea culpa for not adjusting to what they were doing? We only have supposition to answer that question. My point is that things are not always what they appear. #BeatCoastal

The point I was originally trying to make was that we have coaches on the staff who likely assisted in game planning for this same Coastal offense running the same type of scheme with many of the same players for the previous two seasons. They know what works, in general, and what doesn't. Of course the game plan for Coastal doesn't need to be sophisticated as it mostly comes down to coaching fundamentals and playing intelligently.

Again, my only gripe with the UNCC game was that we continued to man on the outside and bring safeties down in the box when it was shown to be largely ineffective. The final interception in the end zone was the result of playing cover 4 and Jolly made the right read to follow the receiver into the safeties zone. We saw more of that type of coverage against UNC and it showed on the scoreboard.
[/quote]

I don’t know that last years Coastal offense will look like last year. CJC is putting his stamp on things now, which is something that he wasn’t able to do last year, even as an interim, in waiting, whatever.

To your point on Charlotte, and we should end it because it is over, but that’s the type of coverage you get when you blitz. You just can’t cover the whole field. You pick your poison. The irony of the Jolly INT is that he was actually beaten on the play and Reynolds missed his target after being on point all half.

Back to the man to man from the corners. What is your solution? What would you have done in hindsight? What would you have done in game? We are replacing two experienced lockdown corners. These guys are good but are getting some OJT. How would you help them out? When you give me your gamelan, I want you provide me with the vulnerabilities in your coverage.
[/quote]

I would play more cover 3 and cover 4 when sending interior pressure so that way the defensive backs can keep their eyes in the backfield for run support. Right now we are playing man on the outside, bringing the safeties down, leaving corners on an island and the safeties are taking bad angles in run support or getting caught in the wash in the box. I'd also quit blitzing Fehr as often because he is one of, if not the best, cover linebackers in the Sun Belt and is an asset in pass defense in the age of RPO.

I'm also not convinced that Drink and the coaching staff in general have deployed everything to this point in the season. With Satterfield, what you saw was what you got pretty much all year long. I think Drinkwitz is picking his spots for adding wrinkles to the game plan and appears to take a Patriots like approach of tailoring your play sheet, for that week, to the opponent.

Lastly, I'm not as down on the defense as everyone else is. App was up 42-21 at one point against Coastal and essentially won the game 56-30 before Coastal scored against App's reserve players. That's a 10 point improvement in margin of victory year over year against an opponent who is improved, by most accounts. We will see if this carries over to Louisiana.

Outside of the one busted play given up by the defense in the run game, Coastal averaged 3.26 yards per carry and they came in averaging close to 6.
[/quote]

Thanks for partially answering my question. You provided the scheme that you would run but you didn't identify the gaps that it creates. Cover 3 does not solve our current problems. Cover 3 in our current 3-4 scheme will take two guys away from run stop (Cook and Gaither) and still leaves a hole in the middle underneath the safeties for slant and crossing route which the safety can't really help as they have deep responsibilities.

Cover 4 is an OK option but only against teams that pose a vertical threat. Maybe Troy and Ark St.

Lastly, I would have a problem with the corners having there eyes in the backfield. That leaves them susceptible to double moves and long vertical routes.

Just so we are clear. I know that we don't see eye to eye on most things so I don't want this to be taken that I am telling you that you are wrong. I just want to point out that any scheme you run is going to have a whole in it that the offense can exploit if read properly. I don't think any of your options are particularly bad, but they need to be run at opportune times and disguised properly.
[/quote]

And therein lies this issue I see with Roof's defense to this point. It hasn't been difficult to read and the personnel aren't always executing how the play is meant to be executed. In Brown/Woody's scheme, I remember seeing cornerbacks far more involved in stopping the run than I have at any point this season. A large reason for that was playing Cover 2-4 and allowing the defensive backfield to flow to the ball. Perhaps a part of the need for pressure from the linebacker group is because the loss of Stout has more impact than we know? Without coaches film I can make that supposition but I can't really prove it. (I also don't have the time).

However, I'd like to see the corners be given the opportunity to track the quarterback and the ball rather than play with their back to the action. I'd also like to take the safeties out of the box more often to let them flow to the play. Blitz often, play fast, play physical, but be smart with it. Naturally, you have an eb and flow with the defense where the blitzing will work 6 plays out of 7 and then won't work 7 plays out of 7, leading to chunk yardage.

Regardless, I'm actually encouraged by the fact that Coastal only averaged 3.26 YPC with the exception of the 42 yard run where a safety and linebacker overran their gap responsibility.

[ericsaid]

Im a little confused why people keep singling out the corners. Sherm and Jolly, etc seem to be playing pretty tight coverage on the outside. We seem to be getting beat in the middle (either passing in the middle or swing out and run to the middle). To me this comes on the LB's and Safeties. As others have said, it seems like our LBs are playing way close to the line essentially leaving the safeties alone in the middle. I dont have extensive knowledge in the X's and O's, but seems more like a slight scheme adjustment.

That said, i dont even think its all scheme. All around this year on D we have missed assignments and tackles. To me, this is directly on the coaches. We seem well coached on O, on ST, but not so much on D.

If we are missing a player the most, i would say its stout. His ability to handle two people and free up the LB's was under appreciated.

Jolly and SJC are playing well for guys that are first year starters. They are just the victims of being next man up for two REALLy good corners.

In agreement that scheme is the issue, not the players. Jolly has two INT's, a blocked punt, and a TD this year through 4 games.

[t4pizza]

I just don't really believe that anybody posting on here (myself included) knows squat about defense in comparison to our coaching staff. Losing Stout hurt, but further injuries have had a significant effect as well. Perhaps the reason that our LBs are playing so close to the line is to assist with pressure from the DL? It is really all related, we don't get enough push from the DL so we bring the LBs up to assist which leaves the DBs with coverage issues because the LBs can't drop back into coverage as quickly. So what may look like a bad scheme to all of the professional DCs on this board, may really just be our DC making the most of our Defense with the current starters we have. Is it the lock down defense we have seen the past few years, not by a long shot but it is getting the job done and becoming a very opportunistic defense in the process. The sky isn't falling, and I believe the defense is and will continue to get better.

[AppSt94]

Im a little confused why people keep singling out the corners. Sherm and Jolly, etc seem to be playing pretty tight coverage on the outside. We seem to be getting beat in the middle (either passing in the middle or swing out and run to the middle). To me this comes on the LB's and Safeties. As others have said, it seems like our LBs are playing way close to the line essentially leaving the safeties alone in the middle. I dont have extensive knowledge in the X's and O's, but seems more like a slight scheme adjustment.

That said, i dont even think its all scheme. All around this year on D we have missed assignments and tackles. To me, this is directly on the coaches. We seem well coached on O, on ST, but not so much on D.

If we are missing a player the most, i would say its stout. His ability to handle two people and free up the LB's was under appreciated.

Jolly and SJC are playing well for guys that are first year starters. They are just the victims of being next man up for two REALLy good corners.

In agreement that scheme is the issue, not the players. Jolly has two INT's, a blocked punt, and a TD this year through 4 games.

Is that meant as a question because I didn't imply that it is a scheme issue? The coaches that know the players far better than you or I do. They do what they do with the belief that they are putting the players in the best position to succeed. Some times it works, some times it doesn't. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But there are many factors involved that are going to drive improvement. i.e. game reps, cohesiveness between coaches and players alike. You can sit here and tell me we should do this or we should do that, but every thing that you offer up has weaknesses because no defense alignment is void of vulnerabilities. Maybe we need to do a better job of disguising what we are doing, and maybe we will. Maybe the coaches haven't felt the urgency to add these things in to this point because the base stuff is working. I will leave it to the guys getting paid to this for a living.

[NewApp]

t4pizza said I just don't really believe that anybody posting on here (myself included) knows squat about defense in comparison to our coaching staff.

BINGO!

[Trock44]

You can’t under estimate the value of having two lock down corners and what it allows the defense to do. We had one for the better part of three years and we’re extremely blessed to have two last year. I’m not sure what to make of ty lack of press coverage this year but it seems like Duck and Hayes played closer to the LOS last year which allowed for some corner blitzes.

Most of the big plays we have given up this year have been in the middle of the field, whether it was a run or pass. Slot receivers and running backs have done the most damage against us this year, not the guys on the outside.

[appstatealum]

t4pizza said I just don't really believe that anybody posting on here (myself included) knows squat about defense in comparison to our coaching staff.

BINGO!

You would be surprised by what some people on here know about the intricacies of football.

[Longrifle28]

I pretty much knew after a 2 hour delay it was going to be different. Prior to the delay we had seemed to adjust to what they were trying to do. After, it was a track meet. Must be harder for defenses to adjust to that length of delay. Not an excuse but I had a feeling it was going to get crazy.

[AppSt94]

You can’t under estimate the value of having two lock down corners and what it allows the defense to do. We had one for the better part of three years and we’re extremely blessed to have two last year. I’m not sure what to make of ty lack of press coverage this year but it seems like Duck and Hayes played closer to the LOS last year which allowed for some corner blitzes.

Most of the big plays we have given up this year have been in the middle of the field, whether it was a run or pass. Slot receivers and running backs have done the most damage against us this year, not the guys on the outside.

Yes but they allowed the safeties to play the middle and take on the slants.

[Trock44]

Watched every defensive snap in the coastal game on YouTube today, here are some things I have noticed.

Trey Cobb over pursued and left some gaping holes on running plays early in the game.

They went after Jolly on the outside playing soft coverage a lot on RPOs. He played pretty well and only gave up one 20+ yard play that could have been picked up, depending on the coverage, by a safety.

Noel Cook played too much in coverage. He gave up some catches to guys WAY more athletic than him. Understandably so because he’s built as an edge rusher. Davis-Gaither and Fehr should be the ones in coverage over the middle.

Ryan Huff, who subbed in for the injured Desmond Franklin played decent. Two major thing I noticed was that he didn’t get over the middle in time and let up a 20 yard TD to the tight end. He also read an RPO wrong and over pursued to leave the middle of the field open on the slant.

Nicholas Ross. Love how this guy stepped up and laid some big hits. Definitely needs to get some more playing time.

Jordan Fehr. Struggled plugging up the gaps on the run. Engaged with blockers too much rather than plugging up the holes and watched guys run past him often. For him to go to the next level he needs to force turnovers. He had 0 last year and he is so athletic that he should be a bigger playmaker for us.

Shemar Jean Charles played a great game and has played great all season. Glad to have him stepping up in replace of Duck and Hayes.

[Trock44]

You can’t under estimate the value of having two lock down corners and what it allows the defense to do. We had one for the better part of three years and we’re extremely blessed to have two last year. I’m not sure what to make of ty lack of press coverage this year but it seems like Duck and Hayes played closer to the LOS last year which allowed for some corner blitzes.

Most of the big plays we have given up this year have been in the middle of the field, whether it was a run or pass. Slot receivers and running backs have done the most damage against us this year, not the guys on the outside.

Yes but they allowed the safeties to play the middle and take on the slants.

Looks like it based on what I have watched. Our linebackers are sitting ducks in the middle of the field in coverage, they hardly pick up anyone over the middle. Every team has seen it on film and are attacking it. We’re lucky UNC had so many dropped balls over the middle.

[appstatealum]

Fehr and Gaither need to be able to read and react. We can't have them so close to the line. DeMarco, Cobb and Cook are more suited for holding the edges and shedding blocks. Gaither gives you that speed blitz, so it's ok to flash him every now and then, but as we saw in the UNC game, put him out in space and let him do his thing.

The safeties, who have had their struggles individually with angles, have looked worse because they are having trouble in support due to the LBs getting washed up in the line. They have to read and diagnose what's happening to the LBs to figure out where to offer help, and they have struggled with it. If the corners aren't getting over the top support, they are less likely to turn their heads or aggressively play the ball. All of these different elements play in to our struggles.

From what I've seen, our best option is to play the straight 3-4 with cover 2 zone schemes and mix in weak/strong zone coverages with zone blitzes And yes, we can run some of these blitz packages that Roof has incorporated. But we need to disguise and confuse, show blitz and then back off into cover 2-3-4 and force the QB to throw around cocerages. Should lead to some easy turnovers.

[yosef69]

Fehr and Gaither need to be able to read and react. We can't have them so close to the line. DeMarco, Cobb and Cook are more suited for holding the edges and shedding blocks. Gaither gives you that speed blitz, so it's ok to flash him every now and then, but as we saw in the UNC game, put him out in space and let him do his thing.

The safeties, who have had their struggles individually with angles, have looked worse because they are having trouble in support due to the LBs getting washed up in the line. They have to read and diagnose what's happening to the LBs to figure out where to offer help, and they have struggled with it. If the corners aren't getting over the top support, they are less likely to turn their heads or aggressively play the ball. All of these different elements play in to our struggles.

From what I've seen, our best option is to play the straight 3-4 with cover 2 zone schemes and mix in weak/strong zone coverages with zone blitzes And yes, we can run some of these blitz packages that Roof has incorporated. But we need to disguise and confuse, show blitz and then back off into cover 2-3-4 and force the QB to throw around cocerages. Should lead to some easy turnovers.

You talked to anyone this week? How are they feeling about the d?

[appstatealum]

Watched every defensive snap in the coastal game on YouTube today, here are some things I have noticed.

Trey Cobb over pursued and left some gaping holes on running plays early in the game.
yep. He is better if he is all out blitzing or setting the edge

They went after Jolly on the outside playing soft coverage a lot on RPOs. He played pretty well and only gave up one 20+ yard play that could have been picked up, depending on the coverage, by a safety.
yeah, I thought Joelly was much better in press coverage where he wasn't having to think as much. He played with more confidence

Noel Cook played too much in coverage. He gave up some catches to guys WAY more athletic than him. Understandably so because he’s built as an edge rusher. Davis-Gaither and Fehr should be the ones in coverage over the middle.
correct. I couldn't figure out why they kept having him drop back in coverage and had Gaither trying to set the edge. I felt like the reverse worked so much better at UNC

Ryan Huff, who subbed in for the injured Desmond Franklin played decent. Two major thing I noticed was that he didn’t get over the middle in time and let up a 20 yard TD to the tight end. He also read an RPO wrong and over pursued to leave the middle of the field open on the slant.
safeties have all been struggling with angles. They are improving, but I'm wondering if they are having to think too much based on what's happening with our front 7

Nicholas Ross. Love how this guy stepped up and laid some big hits. Definitely needs to get some more playing time.
kid has a little "nasty" in him. I wouldn't be surprised to see his playtime increase moving forward

Jordan Fehr. Struggled plugging up the gaps on the run. Engaged with blockers too much rather than plugging up the holes and watched guys run past him often. For him to go to the next level he needs to force turnovers. He had 0 last year and he is so athletic that he should be a bigger playmaker for us.
right, same thing as Gaither, he is better in space where he has time to diagnose the play. When he is having to rush the line and fill the gaps before reading the play, he just gets washed up in the line.

Shemar Jean Charles played a great game and has played great all season. Glad to have him stepping up in replace of Duck and Hayes.

[AppSt94]

Fehr and Gaither need to be able to read and react. We can't have them so close to the line. DeMarco, Cobb and Cook are more suited for holding the edges and shedding blocks. Gaither gives you that speed blitz, so it's ok to flash him every now and then, but as we saw in the UNC game, put him out in space and let him do his thing.

The safeties, who have had their struggles individually with angles, have looked worse because they are having trouble in support due to the LBs getting washed up in the line. They have to read and diagnose what's happening to the LBs to figure out where to offer help, and they have struggled with it. If the corners aren't getting over the top support, they are less likely to turn their heads or aggressively play the ball. All of these different elements play in to our struggles.

From what I've seen, our best option is to play the straight 3-4 with cover 2 zone schemes and mix in weak/strong zone coverages with zone blitzes And yes, we can run some of these blitz packages that Roof has incorporated. But we need to disguise and confuse, show blitz and then back off into cover 2-3-4 and force the QB to throw around cocerages. Should lead to some easy turnovers.

So you see this and you are very astute. Do you not believe the coaches see this as well? Surely they are searching for solutions. I find it hard to believe that they are ignoring these options.

[Black Saturday]

Fehr and Gaither need to be able to read and react. We can't have them so close to the line. DeMarco, Cobb and Cook are more suited for holding the edges and shedding blocks. Gaither gives you that speed blitz, so it's ok to flash him every now and then, but as we saw in the UNC game, put him out in space and let him do his thing.

The safeties, who have had their struggles individually with angles, have looked worse because they are having trouble in support due to the LBs getting washed up in the line. They have to read and diagnose what's happening to the LBs to figure out where to offer help, and they have struggled with it. If the corners aren't getting over the top support, they are less likely to turn their heads or aggressively play the ball. All of these different elements play in to our struggles.

From what I've seen, our best option is to play the straight 3-4 with cover 2 zone schemes and mix in weak/strong zone coverages with zone blitzes And yes, we can run some of these blitz packages that Roof has incorporated. But we need to disguise and confuse, show blitz and then back off into cover 2-3-4 and force the QB to throw around cocerages. Should lead to some easy turnovers.

Disguise is whole shooting match

[appstatealum]

Fehr and Gaither need to be able to read and react. We can't have them so close to the line. DeMarco, Cobb and Cook are more suited for holding the edges and shedding blocks. Gaither gives you that speed blitz, so it's ok to flash him every now and then, but as we saw in the UNC game, put him out in space and let him do his thing.

The safeties, who have had their struggles individually with angles, have looked worse because they are having trouble in support due to the LBs getting washed up in the line. They have to read and diagnose what's happening to the LBs to figure out where to offer help, and they have struggled with it. If the corners aren't getting over the top support, they are less likely to turn their heads or aggressively play the ball. All of these different elements play in to our struggles.

From what I've seen, our best option is to play the straight 3-4 with cover 2 zone schemes and mix in weak/strong zone coverages with zone blitzes And yes, we can run some of these blitz packages that Roof has incorporated. But we need to disguise and confuse, show blitz and then back off into cover 2-3-4 and force the QB to throw around cocerages. Should lead to some easy turnovers.

So you see this and you are very astute. Do you not believe the coaches see this as well? Surely they are searching for solutions. I find it hard to believe that they are ignoring these options.

That’s where I’m confused. I know they see it, they have to. The only options to why we aren’t doing anything about it are:
1. Staff are not comfortable with getting pressure from only 3 DL
2. Staff are comfortable with a specific base scheme and need that to account for the playbook (probably the closest to the truth).
3. Staff has no grasp of what our personnel do well (probably the furthest from the truth, but a possibility nevertheless)

The reality is, the defense we are running is getting gashed. I suppose there is a possibility that they are placating the offensive mind of Drink and are just playing this way so they limit quick change of possessions? Do not allow quick scores, just keep bending slowly until the other team scores. Offense comes out rested and scores again, and again and again? Not sure about that strategy, but I’ve seen it done in eras past with other college and pro teams.

[AppSt94]

Fehr and Gaither need to be able to read and react. We can't have them so close to the line. DeMarco, Cobb and Cook are more suited for holding the edges and shedding blocks. Gaither gives you that speed blitz, so it's ok to flash him every now and then, but as we saw in the UNC game, put him out in space and let him do his thing.

The safeties, who have had their struggles individually with angles, have looked worse because they are having trouble in support due to the LBs getting washed up in the line. They have to read and diagnose what's happening to the LBs to figure out where to offer help, and they have struggled with it. If the corners aren't getting over the top support, they are less likely to turn their heads or aggressively play the ball. All of these different elements play in to our struggles.

From what I've seen, our best option is to play the straight 3-4 with cover 2 zone schemes and mix in weak/strong zone coverages with zone blitzes And yes, we can run some of these blitz packages that Roof has incorporated. But we need to disguise and confuse, show blitz and then back off into cover 2-3-4 and force the QB to throw around cocerages. Should lead to some easy turnovers.

So you see this and you are very astute. Do you not believe the coaches see this as well? Surely they are searching for solutions. I find it hard to believe that they are ignoring these options.

That’s where I’m confused. I know they see it, they have to. The only options to why we aren’t doing anything about it are:
1. Staff are not comfortable with getting pressure from only 3 DL
2. Staff are comfortable with a specific base scheme and need that to account for the playbook (probably the closest to the truth).
3. Staff has no grasp of what our personnel do well (probably the furthest from the truth, but a possibility nevertheless)

The reality is, the defense we are running is getting gashed. I suppose there is a possibility that they are placating the offensive mind of Drink and are just playing this way so they limit quick change of possessions? Do not allow quick scores, just keep bending slowly until the other team scores. Offense comes out rested and scores again, and again and again? Not sure about that strategy, but I’ve seen it done in eras past with other college and pro teams.

I really can’t discount any of those theories so if I may float another one out there. Could it be possible that they are choosing to not adjust from this “base” defense because they haven’t felt the need to make adjustments so that things aren’t on tape? I mean, it’s out there to suggest it but I know these guys are incompetent.