Listen To The Players…

[Mikeyosef1]

How about letting the current season play out and assess when it is finished, just a thought.

SC first 2 seasons were good and first half of last season was great...then the injury bug hit and the wheels fell off.

I think the program is fine and in good shape. Hope we don't turn in to a program that starts the fire/hire/fire/hire scenario...it gets expensive and usually results in the down turn of the program.

Agreed, let the season play out. I'm as frustrated as anyone with the way the season has gone so far. However, it's not like we haven't been in position to win those games we lost. In some cases the ball hasn't bounced our way, in other's we've made mistakes. I see a good team on the field and players that are truly giving their all for App State. We are just that close to being undefeated. I love when we blow out teams and I know only wins matter in the end but boys, this is a very good team and we need to support the players and the coaches through the season.

[Bigdaddyg1]

I didn't want to start another thread for this question and wasn't sure if there was another more appropriate one to add to so I'll ask it here. I always like to get a feel for what we have returning (potentially) and who could rise up and be a stud. Anyone want to take a stab at the potential 11 offense and defense and special teams guys for next season?

[Saint3333]

"No matter how much App wins it will never be enough for some fans".

The problem there is we are not winning, at least like we used to. What is the record against other FBS teams the last couple of years? 4-6 last year. Another 5-6 season likely this year against FBS competition. What is astonishing is some fans don't see a trend into mediocrity beginning.

We are not in the same conference we were in two years ago. We are not in the same conference we were in four years ago. Maybe the last two coaches left when they did for reasons other than more money.

This line of thinking is misled. We are competing against schools like ULM, CCU, GS, etc. If you don't think we should be ahead of those programs your expectations for who we are needs an adjustment.

If we could have paid Satt he'd still be here, you think he's running from a tougher SBC where he had a huge part in raising the bar?

Drink, whatever.

[fjblair]

Clark's teams are have regressed and have not played to the level that App fans expect. It's the wins man, and we ain't winning. The criticism is warranted and entirely expected, it's just part of the deal.

[AppInDC]

This is the Job that Shawn Clark has spent his entire life learning to do since App lost to Boise State. He wants App to win just as much as anyone who has ever posted anything on this board, probably more.

(John Candy) "It's a fair question. It's quite simple, really. I had to win. You see, Derice, I had made winning my whole life, and when you make winning your whole life, you have to keep on winning, no matter what. Understand?"
(Leon Robinson) "No, I don't understand. You won two gold medals. You had it all."
(John Candy) "Derice, a gold medal is a wonderful thing. But if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it."

I believe some fans have fallen into the same trap that John Candy's character in Cool Runnings fell into. No matter how much App wins it will never be enough for some fans.

Jerry Moore is considered by some as the greatest coach that Appalachian has ever had, however, he was fired by North Texas and Texas Tech. Just think how great they could have been had they just given Jerry Moore more time. Their loss had been Appalachian's gain. We have a great coach in the making, some day you can say, "I was there during the years that Shawn Clark struggled, but I am sure glad that we did not fire of him." (I bet there are some that though we should have gotten rid of Jerry Moore back in the day too, like when he lost to Wyoming the first time the two schools played. A year later Appalachian won its first National Championship. Two years after that, Appalachian did what everyone thought was impossible. I imagine that App will do the things that everyone believes are impossible in the near future if we stay the course with Shawn Clark, just like we did when we stayed the course with Jerry Moore.

"A lazy hire." I have never understood why people think that anyone you hire from somewhere else is better than one of your own people. Chancelor Peacock was one of the best Chancelors Appalachian has ever had. Some would say that he was a "Lazy hire too".

Nothing is wrong with hiring internally, but comparing the hiring of Shawn Clark is not apples-to-apples with hiring Peacock. Shawn Clark was named head coach in a matter of days after Drinkwitz went to Missouri. Borkowski stepped down as chancellor in June 2003. Reading one article on this announcement from WFMY News, it states, "[Provost Harvey Durham will continue as acting chancellor] while a search committee is formed and a permanent replacement is named". Peacock didn't enter the office until 2004.

Not saying App needed to take months to make a head coaching decision given the timelines around college football but let's not pretend these were similar processes with the same amount of due diligence.

[ASUTodd]

If players and coaches can't take the criticism from Yosef's Cabin then one of two things is true: #1 They aren't mentally tough enough to be playing football. #2 They shouldn't be on here reading it. They aren't playing tiddlywinks... Its football.... I haven't seen anything on here that would be considered a death threat or overboard. We have some wild posts now and then but for the most part, it's all tied to the job they do and not personal.

[Wally]

While yeah, a .500 record over the past 2 seasons screams mediocre, this team far from sucks. In the 9 losses, only TX State was a blowout and sure that was a bad loss. Marshall and Coastal in 2022 could have gone either way late, but they both made the plays they needed, and Grayson played on one leg to barely survive that one. The other 5 we should have put away but for some fluky play that went against us (missed / blocked fg, weird fumble, maybe some calls that didn't go our way). Point is we are close to being extremely good. We still play great against P5... both years against UNC could have gone our way, and we beat a #6 TAMU... and maybe they end the season with 7 losses but they did beat 3 ranked teams including LSU, and they played ranked Alabama and Ole Miss close. Clark has had to navigate a whole new world with Covid, NIL, and Transfer Portal. I think he's done a pretty good job and is set up for success with a really good, young team. Now, let's go whip ODU!

[MrCraig]

"Jerry Moore is considered by some as the greatest coach that Appalachian has ever had, however, he was fired by North Texas and Texas Tech. Just think how great they could have been had they just given Jerry Moore more time. Their loss had been Appalachian's gain."

This is literally just a "what if?" The exact opposite could be just a probable. Texas Tech could have continued to employ Jerry Moore, and he might have continued to be terrible for a decade because he didn't learn anything from his failures.
While we're on the subject, would literally anyone on this board be ok with App going 16-37 over the next 5 years? Because that was Moore's record at Texas Tech. He 100% deserved to be fired, and I bet he would agree and say it made him a better coach in the long run.

Some of y'all act like Shawn Clark is volunteering. The man makes half a million dollars a year and if they fire him at the end of this season, he will get $1 million. If he gets fired, he's going to be ok.

He makes more than a half mill, he’s the second highest paid coach in the SBC. We’re paying top flight SBC money for 5th place in the division.

Some of these folks would gladly change the name of the team to the Shawn Clark Mountaineers in a heartbeat. The defense of mediocrity is wild.

I was just looking at the base salary from the first article that popped up on Google.
For so long App has prided itself in saying "we do more with less." Now, we have more than ever before (recruiting rankings are top of the conference, season ticket sellouts, multiple attendance records broken, school enrollment is up), and we are doing less with it.

Finally, miss me with this "the conference has gotten much better" crap. Yes, the addition of JMU and Marshall made the conference stronger, but ULM is as bad as ever and Coastal is a shadow of what they've been the last 4 years. App is losing/barely beating the BAD teams in the SBC. I shudder to think what the JMU, Marshall, and GA Southern games will be like...

[Saint3333]

I think we'll play all those teams relatively close, which will further evidence the inconsistency of our performances.

[Yosef84]

I don't think voicing concern or criticism is an issue, and I don't think the suggestion was intended to shut that down. It was intended to provide context. That really shouldn't be difficult to understand. When taken in context, we choose words more precisely. It's always easy to paint this as black and white so that the other side can be dismissed, though.

The fact that the Sunbelt has improved isn't a "played out" argument. Naming it that is just an excuse for dismissing any opposing opinion. The Sunbelt is much stronger is a statement of fact. That doesn't mean we should settle in to accepting mediocrity. It is an acknowledgment that remaining at the top 100% of the time is going to be increasingly difficult if not impossible. We should absolutely be competing at the top on an ongoing basis. We certainly fell short of an acceptable standard last season and I have to admit, my optimism has taken a hit this week, but we are still in the fight. We still control our own destiny. How likely it is to be achieved it arguable, but nobody on this board knows the answer. It's just opinions.

With only occasional exceptions, I don't see players being attacked on here. When it's done, it's usually from one of those posters with a handful of posts. Coaches have been criticized. They're grown men and being paid reasonably well, so criticism is understandable. I personally choose not to do it because I see zero value to repeating my opinions ad nauseam. Contrary to what some seem to believe, I doubt DG is getting his data about "accountability" from MMB. If he is, we have bigger concerns.

We have had 2 painful, gut punch losses and one close win that are concerning. Wyoming seems an outlier because of how it happened. ULM and CCU raise the concern about our D, but I still think there is reason to acknowledge improvement. In both cases, adjustments were made and we made stops. I do think we have to assume that every opponent we face from this point will attempt to exploit the same game plan, so I hope we don't wait until the second quarter to make adjustments. We still have the ability to beat anyone remaining on the schedule but we can't spot them 14 points via turnovers, or broken coverage. I'm sure the players and coaches know that better than I do.

GO APPS

[Rekdiver]

Some of you have never known anything but us winning or havent been a fan until we beat Michigan....From where i started in 1970 until nowI've see ups and downs and I refuse to get exercised about a couple of down years. This will pass. We've build a program and it takes more than a couple years to screw one up. Dissapointed in last year and this year so far? yep but we will right the ship.

[Saint3333]

Yes we will, whether that is before or after December 1st is the question.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Some of you have never known anything but us winning or havent been a fan until we beat Michigan....From where i started in 1970 until nowI've see ups and downs and I refuse to get exercised about a couple of down years. This will pass. We've build a program and it takes more than a couple years to screw one up. Dissapointed in last year and this year so far? yep but we will right the ship.

I'll take it a step further. While that run of 3 FCS championships was impressive as were those couple of Belt championships along with the bowl wins have we really been this football juggernaut that some seem to believe? I can recall many a Saturday during the good SOCON years in the 90's where we we're barely beating or even losing to the Furmans, Woffords and even the Western Carolina's of the world. It also wasn't that long ago that you had to hope to catch a game on a radio station affiliate or maybe gamecast on ESPN. Then you could get the telecast on PBS or on a rare occasion maybe ESPN2. We had that really rough final season in FCS and I believe a fairly crappy transition season. People here act like we have been an Alabama or something. I'll repeat the question I asked probably two years ago. What will people do if, god forbid we don't go 10-2? That has been answered with probably 6 different topics.

[Saint3333]

We have been the Alabama, or at least the LSU of the FCS/G5 for the last 20+ years.

[BambooRdApp]

I respectfully disagree. Not in G6. We have had a decent football team in G5. We have not even made it as New Year 6 participant. Although proud we won 6 bowl games, we have not played anyone of significance. At least LSU has a Natty. A perceived natty would be as new Year 6 participant..of which we have not been.
Let's not overstate our value of who we are and have been.

[Saint3333]

Out of 60+ G5 programs where would you rank App from 2015-2020? It isn't outside of the top 10.

[Bigdaddyg1]

LSU went 6-7 in '21, lost 4 games last year and 2 so far this season with games to be played with Auburn, Alabama and A&M. Could easily lose 4 again this season. If that happens is that 3 year run acceptable down there? What is their problem? Time to pony up $100m for the buyout?

[yosef69]

I respectfully disagree. Not in G6. We have had a decent football team in G5. We have not even made it as New Year 6 participant. Although proud we won 6 bowl games, we have not played anyone of significance. At least LSU has a Natty. A perceived natty would be as new Year 6 participant..of which we have not been.
Let's not overstate our value of who we are and have been.

Absolutely pathetic statement from a “fan.” People like you make me sick

[asumba95]

"No matter how much App wins it will never be enough for some fans".

The problem there is we are not winning, at least like we used to. What is the record against other FBS teams the last couple of years? 4-6 last year. Another 5-6 season likely this year against FBS competition. What is astonishing is some fans don't see a trend into mediocrity beginning.

We are not in the same conference we were in two years ago. We are not in the same conference we were in four years ago. Maybe the last two coaches
left when they did for reasons other than more money.

Satt was lured away by money and ambition. Probably same for Drinkwitz but I believe he knew we were at the top and it was downhill from where we were.
We have some serious talent right now but not all over the field on either side of the ball, the holes are killing us. We are young and small where we were experienced and big a few years ago.

This...especially at LB and DL. Losing harrington and McCloud is hurting us

[MrCraig]

Some of you have never known anything but us winning or havent been a fan until we beat Michigan....From where i started in 1970 until nowI've see ups and downs and I refuse to get exercised about a couple of down years. This will pass. We've build a program and it takes more than a couple years to screw one up. Dissapointed in last year and this year so far? yep but we will right the ship.

I'll take it a step further. While that run of 3 FCS championships was impressive as were those couple of Belt championships along with the bowl wins have we really been this football juggernaut that some seem to believe? I can recall many a Saturday during the good SOCON years in the 90's where we we're barely beating or even losing to the Furmans, Woffords and even the Western Carolina's of the world. It also wasn't that long ago that you had to hope to catch a game on a radio station affiliate or maybe gamecast on ESPN. Then you could get the telecast on PBS or on a rare occasion maybe ESPN2. We had that really rough final season in FCS and I believe a fairly crappy transition season. People here act like we have been an Alabama or something. I'll repeat the question I asked probably two years ago. What will people do if, god forbid we don't go 10-2? That has been answered with probably 6 different topics.

"have we really been this football juggernaut that some seem to believe?"

Yes. Absolutely. Just peruse the "List of Appalachian State Mountaineers Football Seasons" on Wikipedia. Go count the losing seasons. Go count the seasons App has double digit wins. Go count the number of outright conference championships, shared conference championships, and second place finishes. Appalachian State has an incredible tradition of sustained success in football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... ll_seasons