#TeamClark

[Yosef84]

Who is responsible for getting these transfers? Do all those other schools have someone recruiting grad transfers? Why do they have more?

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

I have to disagree that those are the two options. The university is NOT going to relax academic standards to accommodate athletic recruiting, nor should it. App State has appropriate standards. We aren't Harvard, or even Duke when it comes to our admissions. In my opinion, Clark has addressed the transfer issue. He has acknowledged that he was slow to leverage the portal but I think he did a good job this past year. Everyone is going through a learning curve with the portal. Some programs have done better than others, but it remains to be seen how those "success" stories play out in terms of sustainability. Regarding the second point, yes we need to always focus on HS recruits. I think we do and always have had that emphasis and that is how it should be. Finding a balance between HS recruiting and the portal is the key to sustainability. The transfer portal has only existed since 2018 and it was turbo charged by the eligibility changes that grew out of COVID and the removal of the year ineligibility all combined with NIL. All the success stories at this point are really just data points because there hasn't been enough time to really evaluate trends under current rules.

I'm just saying if we are going to cry about it being tougher then we could lower them but I don't want to do that. I 100% agree with you.

Shawn was slow to leverage the portal. There has to be a balance. We should not be signing 15-20 players a year in the portal but we also can't ignore it either.

Agree 100%. See folks...this is what happens when a civil exchange takes place. Points are raised and discussed and it turns out that there is agreement after all. EVERYBODY on this board (trolls excluded perhaps) wants to see App winning.

[DenverOfTheEast]

Grad transfers can be a great quick fix but that's not how to build a program. By definition, you generally have a year of eligibility and you are replacing that position again. Grad transfers are a great way to buy time for a younger player to develop and plug holes, but not the ongoing solution. Just my opinion of course.

It's a position or gap filler, great Post!!

problem is you can't hold them super accountable like a underclassmen, they can get sideways on you and be a distraction if a underclassmen player beats them out, don't have to attend class either, etc.

Example: Chase Brice was a good pickup once Zac didn't want to come back.

But in a perfect recruiting world you don't want to play the Graduate Transfer gamble each spring recruiting, it's not what App State football was built on.

I agree with this take for the most part and believe you want to focus more on high school players. Above though you made the point that we have less of them than Ga State, Duke, etc and made it seem that is why we are struggling. Isn't that contradictory?

No, it's why we maybe struggling this year. having a younger team = immaturity to handle business, hence the ULM game, the 1st quarter vs Coastal... Mature older teams show up and put people away regardless who the opposition is.

But Chase was a band aid, right place right time fix. Russian roulette of recruiting.

McCall, Lamb, Zac, Berger 4 year SBC QB's -- JA is fine junior college pickup with multiple years as well. that's the App way.

[AppStFan1]

Clark has been coach for 4 years. Assistant coaching turnover and losing recruits is on him too. He’s the head coach.

Assistant coaching turnover comes down to App State doesn't squat and you not keeping someone who is going to a P5, you are just being kinda stupid at this point over that topic.

Everyone loses recruits in every sport, you're making up something that isn't relevant or close to topic.

Outside of Tony Petersen, who I believe was going to be let go annyways, which assistants of Clark’s have moved on to a P5, let alone anywhere else? Best I recall, all coaching turnover has been due to Clark having to move on from guys who aren’t working out.

Peterson ==== Illinois (whether you THINK he was going to get fired is a rumor debate, they won 9 games with him as OC, #TeamClark wasn't going to fire him just because the CircleofFakes and this board wanted it.

Barbay +=== Mississippi State (Barbay replaced Ponce) and then Ponce came back this year...

Ponce ==== Miami (Ponce replaced Peterson)

Another D line coach went to Army

Old guy(former Western Carolina Head Coach and Jerry Moore assistant) went with Satt to Louisville.

Several young guys have moved that may have been GA's or analyst under #TeamClark

Jeep wade left last year for ===== Ga Tech.

You guys asking me questions like this shows you guys don't even "KNOW" your on program...

Tony was not fired but I think we should have let him go. He got the Illinois job so it did not really matter if he was. He had been let go by them though and is now at Illinois State. I like Ponce better than Tony for us.

Are you talking about Braswell that went to Army? I was told Shawn was not trying to keep him. There were issues with him. He is now at Cincinnati.

I did not see great recruiting or development under Coach Nunn who is now quality control at Cincinnati.

The older coach you refer to is Mark Speir, correct? He is a really good assistant.

I was told that Wade and Barbay had differences. I think Wade was a solid coach but I think we got a good one now as well.

I think they know our program but don't follow coaches when they leave App.

[Pikapp79]

The App way died with the portal and NIL. A decent second string guy isn’t waiting around 2 or 3 years to play one or two seasons. They hit the road for better opportunity. Get with the times or go backward. Can’t stand it but that’s todays college athletics.

[AppStFan1]

Money talks. Start losing fans and lower Yosef donations and players will be admitted. The days of the “student athlete” went out the window with the portal and NIL. Almost every fan base thinks their academic standards are too high when in reality underperforming “student athletes” are admitted annually. It’s up to the coach to understand the current environment and build their roster.

Very true. I like our standards and hope we don't lower them. This is why Shawn has to focus more on high school players. We need to take portal players but our numbers should not be in the 15 range either. Teams who hit the portal a lot are missing big on high school recruits. I would love to see us get to where we take in 3-5 real good ones each year and don't need to sign 15-20 just to have a good two-deep.

[AppStFan1]

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

I want them on campus as well. Another change in our recruiting strategy that I think has hurt is trying to wrap it up a lot earlier. We use to find so many late gems and we have to be balanced by going after big time players who are coveted but also find those 2-3 diamonds in the rough that can become stars for us. We have put a lot of players in the NFL by doing that.

Surely you're not saying that, as a strategy, we shouldn't seek filling our needs earlier. Yes, we did used to get those late commits, but since the early signing period has been in effect, and now with the portal in full swing, nothing works the way it used to work. I don't know that those gems are still out there in today's world. In the old world, there were always some studs who were holding out for that possible P5 offer and lots of movement before signing day. I just think that, in today's world if you are still trying to fill needs in the High School recruiting market in February, you have likely missed the boat. I'm not saying never, but I can't imagine that being a strategy.

Hold a few spaces open for last minute or transfer but early commits are a good thing.

I did not say that sentence in bold at all. I said we should not be completely full early. I had read before that we were aiming to have class finished by end of July and I am saying we should hold a few spots for those late risers or overlooked players. We have had so many like Brian Quick, Corey Lynch, Nate Noel, etc. and I don't want to miss out on those players. Numbers can vary but I was thinking if we sign 22-25 high school players then hold 2-3 spots open for those late riser type players.

[AppStFan1]

This is a very valid point that many don't want to hear. The constant coaching changes between the end of the seasons in 18 and 19 coupled with significant position coach and coordinator changes since 18 helped lead to a situation where we have very little older experienced players. It makes a difference. And I don't say that as an excuse, it is just a fact of the matter for our team.

Our real number is 31 because our staff has listed the COVID eligibility of each player. Like last year Hodges and Hampton were listed as juniors but with out COVID they were actually redshirt seniors instead of listed as a redshirt junior.

your'e so clueless - you send me a private message saying our kicker is a sophomore and the roster has him as a junior. App State real number is not 31, some kids have normal redshirts but they won't get that extra COVID year o r 6th or 7th year.

Don't send me a private message anymore trying to be my friend and make peace, when your data is off by miles. I do my research.

That was a typo but the point is that he is not a senior and the NFL is not looking at junior kickers who aren't consistent inside of 50.

Our roster has 31 players who are in 7th year, 6th year, 5th year, or true seniors. That is fact. I just counted again.

If you just want 5th year or older players then we have 21!!

I am sure you were not counting Milan Tucker because it says junior but look at his bio: https://appstatesports.com/sports/footb ... ucker/8075

Tucker is in his 5th year!

But here is the difference, He redshirted in 2019, then played in 2020 (that year doesn't count per NCAA) so technically by my count he doesn't count on the initial post until next season..... So all this proves is the other schools have even more older players than Appy

Plus he fumbled when he needs to just go down, so I would tell him to go in the portal. costing Appy a win. Play #12

If you not counting them because of COVID classes then you have to do the same thing for the other schools. Duke is listing a 4th year senior as a senior instead of a 4th year junior like we are.

For example, did you count this player for Duke? https://goduke.com/sports/football/rost ... rton/19201

I pull up Barton because he is likely a round 1-2 pick and a stud. Barton is listed as a senior but is a year younger than Tucker.

[AppStFan1]

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

I want them on campus as well. Another change in our recruiting strategy that I think has hurt is trying to wrap it up a lot earlier. We use to find so many late gems and we have to be balanced by going after big time players who are coveted but also find those 2-3 diamonds in the rough that can become stars for us. We have put a lot of players in the NFL by doing that.

Surely you're not saying that, as a strategy, we shouldn't seek filling our needs earlier. Yes, we did used to get those late commits, but since the early signing period has been in effect, and now with the portal in full swing, nothing works the way it used to work. I don't know that those gems are still out there in today's world. In the old world, there were always some studs who were holding out for that possible P5 offer and lots of movement before signing day. I just think that, in today's world if you are still trying to fill needs in the High School recruiting market in February, you have likely missed the boat. I'm not saying never, but I can't imagine that being a strategy.

Hold a few spaces open for last minute or transfer but early commits are a good thing.

It's not holding the spaces that's the big deal, App State only has 1 major that these "portal kids" can technically transfer into 1) communications

It's the Progress toward degree rule where App kills their athletic programs in the new portal world, plus App State doesn't;t take C's -- only A's AND B's from other institutions.

Marshall, both Georgia schools, all the west division teams and coastal Carolina will take D's from another transcript. I would say ODU and JMU are a bit conservative but I wouldn't bet against them either.

Ivy League schools can't even recruit a player until they see their grades to make sure they can get in school so instead of recruiting first and then finding out on academics after they get their transcript so they don't waste time. We don't have as much time from portal opening to signing day so we can't do that as easily. That goes back to my point that Shawn should adjust and not dip in the portal as much so he is not left with a last minute opening because they can't get in school.

[AppStFan1]

obviously the coaching staff, but the topic above and my continuous beating of a dead horse has stated that App State academics is not liberal in allowing transfers to get in, where the above mentioned schools are super liberal in transfer admissions.
(conservative in admissions is about the only area Appy is conservative in these days, just a little barb there.)

And as I said before, Shawn has known this so you have 2 options. 1. App needs to relax those rules or 2. Shawn should call an audible and focus more on HS and less on transfers. You don't build through the portal only. You have to hit on recruiting and Shawn has a very low hit rate his first two years. Some staffs did a really good job in the COVID recruiting years and others did not. We happened to have a lot of misses during that.

I have to disagree that those are the two options. The university is NOT going to relax academic standards to accommodate athletic recruiting, nor should it. App State has appropriate standards. We aren't Harvard, or even Duke when it comes to our admissions. In my opinion, Clark has addressed the transfer issue. He has acknowledged that he was slow to leverage the portal but I think he did a good job this past year. Everyone is going through a learning curve with the portal. Some programs have done better than others, but it remains to be seen how those "success" stories play out in terms of sustainability. Regarding the second point, yes we need to always focus on HS recruits. I think we do and always have had that emphasis and that is how it should be. Finding a balance between HS recruiting and the portal is the key to sustainability. The transfer portal has only existed since 2018 and it was turbo charged by the eligibility changes that grew out of COVID and the removal of the year ineligibility all combined with NIL. All the success stories at this point are really just data points because there hasn't been enough time to really evaluate trends under current rules.

I'm just saying if we are going to cry about it being tougher then we could lower them but I don't want to do that. I 100% agree with you.

Shawn was slow to leverage the portal. There has to be a balance. We should not be signing 15-20 players a year in the portal but we also can't ignore it either.

Agree 100%. See folks...this is what happens when a civil exchange takes place. Points are raised and discussed and it turns out that there is agreement after all. EVERYBODY on this board (trolls excluded perhaps) wants to see App winning.

100% true. When adults talk you can typically find common ground. One thing that happens online too is that is it harder to know tone and some people read a sentence differently so instead of calling names you ask to get clarification to make sure you interpret it the way it was meant.

[BayouApp]

Money talks. Start losing fans and lower Yosef donations and players will be admitted. The days of the “student athlete” went out the window with the portal and NIL. Almost every fan base thinks their academic standards are too high when in reality underperforming “student athletes” are admitted annually. It’s up to the coach to understand the current environment and build their roster.

Very true. I like our standards and hope we don't lower them. This is why Shawn has to focus more on high school players. We need to take portal players but our numbers should not be in the 15 range either. Teams who hit the portal a lot are missing big on high school recruits. I would love to see us get to where we take in 3-5 real good ones each year and don't need to sign 15-20 just to have a good two-deep.

Decisions on portal players should be based on whether the additions will make the team better rather than an arbitrary number. Some years that may only be 3-5 players, some years significantly more.

[AppStFan1]

Grad transfers can be a great quick fix but that's not how to build a program. By definition, you generally have a year of eligibility and you are replacing that position again. Grad transfers are a great way to buy time for a younger player to develop and plug holes, but not the ongoing solution. Just my opinion of course.

It's a position or gap filler, great Post!!

problem is you can't hold them super accountable like a underclassmen, they can get sideways on you and be a distraction if a underclassmen player beats them out, don't have to attend class either, etc.

Example: Chase Brice was a good pickup once Zac didn't want to come back.

But in a perfect recruiting world you don't want to play the Graduate Transfer gamble each spring recruiting, it's not what App State football was built on.

I agree with this take for the most part and believe you want to focus more on high school players. Above though you made the point that we have less of them than Ga State, Duke, etc and made it seem that is why we are struggling. Isn't that contradictory?

No, it's why we maybe struggling this year. having a younger team = immaturity to handle business, hence the ULM game, the 1st quarter vs Coastal... Mature older teams show up and put people away regardless who the opposition is.

But Chase was a band aid, right place right time fix. Russian roulette of recruiting.

McCall, Lamb, Zac, Berger 4 year SBC QB's -- JA is fine junior college pickup with multiple years as well. that's the App way.

We have at least 20 players on our roster who were in college in 2019 or earlier. When you go by how many years they have experience in college instead of how App has manipulated the class listings due to COVID we have way more than 7 and are more on par with others.

I know 2020 does not count toward eligibility but those other schools are not listing players that same way, which I have said before.

[AppStFan1]

Money talks. Start losing fans and lower Yosef donations and players will be admitted. The days of the “student athlete” went out the window with the portal and NIL. Almost every fan base thinks their academic standards are too high when in reality underperforming “student athletes” are admitted annually. It’s up to the coach to understand the current environment and build their roster.

Very true. I like our standards and hope we don't lower them. This is why Shawn has to focus more on high school players. We need to take portal players but our numbers should not be in the 15 range either. Teams who hit the portal a lot are missing big on high school recruits. I would love to see us get to where we take in 3-5 real good ones each year and don't need to sign 15-20 just to have a good two-deep.

Decisions on portal players should be based on whether the additions will make the team better rather than an arbitrary number. Some years that may only be 3-5 players, some years significantly more.

I agree with that but my point is that if you are signing 22-25 high school players and hitting on enough of them you won't need to sign more than 10 portal players in a year. If we hit on a high rate then we will only have enough room for a few players. I could see it being 2-3 one year and then 6 the next year but we are getting 15-20 then we had way too many misses. We signed 14 portal players this year and had more but some left or did not show up.

[appdaze]

A better stat would be to show how many of them are starters. Have their average playtime beside each player on each teams roster for comparison. What are their game stats? How many of those players actually matter?

Ive never really believed in rebuild years in college sports. You know your players will be with you for 3-4 years. That is why you are constantly recruiting to have their replacements on the team and ready for when they leave. If your replacements aren't good enough that is on you as the coach. Calling it a rebuild year just means the coach didn't do their job well enough on the recruiting front. Calling it a rebuild year is just an excuse. That goes for every team out there. Now throw in the portal and that makes the rebuild idea even more of an excuse. Especially a coach in year 4.

Clark has a lot to prove at this point. Each season under him has been a decline from the last. So far this season is following that trend. He's got time to turn it around with his recruits that he should have had trained up for this moment so we will see how we end this season. Enthusiasm is great, blind enthusiasm doesn't help. Blind enthusiasm invites mediocrity as the norm. Constantly chiding those that disagrees with you helps absolutely nothing but your ego which isn't what "team" players do. That just makes me think you want fans mad at each other and that you purposely want division which is the opposite of what we need. So starting yet another thread to achieve that helps no one but your ego. Aka, not a team player. Thankfully you don't have Clark's ear as that would be horrible for our organization, and if by some reason you do, maybe that explains the mediocrity.

1) you are more than welcome to do this big guy,

2)And no one in coaching coulda have predicted a COVID log jam and the portal and what that would do to rosters.

It has greatly improved (portal) some programs but it is about to come back to earth, plus we don't mention the possible NIL money other programs are paying compared to Appy.

Ehh, I'm not going to research it because I'm not the one trying to make a point with a very out there stat about grads/5th year seniors. A team could be full of those players and still suck, so it's not all that big of a point you think it is.

Correct, no one could have predicted the COVID log jam, but everyone is having to deal with it. Better coaches are doing a better job than others. They are being rewarded for being good team managers with wins on the field. Others did not prepare and have not embraced the new landscape and are faltering.

NIL is what it is. We just have to focus on developing players with the understanding that some of the best may transfer their junior year if they get money offers and I don't blame them one bit. We have to have recruits ready behind them. Assume you have players for three years at best and be ready to replace via recruitment or portal. College basketball has been dealing with the short term players for years now. You just have to adjust or accept your fate.

[Pikapp79]

Money talks. Start losing fans and lower Yosef donations and players will be admitted. The days of the “student athlete” went out the window with the portal and NIL. Almost every fan base thinks their academic standards are too high when in reality underperforming “student athletes” are admitted annually. It’s up to the coach to understand the current environment and build their roster.

Very true. I like our standards and hope we don't lower them. This is why Shawn has to focus more on high school players. We need to take portal players but our numbers should not be in the 15 range either. Teams who hit the portal a lot are missing big on high school recruits. I would love to see us get to where we take in 3-5 real good ones each year and don't need to sign 15-20 just to have a good two-deep.

Decisions on portal players should be based on whether the additions will make the team better rather than an arbitrary number. Some years that may only be 3-5 players, some years significantly more.

I agree with that but my point is that if you are signing 22-25 high school players and hitting on enough of them you won't need to sign more than 10 portal players in a year. If we hit on a high rate then we will only have enough room for a few players. I could see it being 2-3 one year and then 6 the next year but we are getting 15-20 then we had way too many misses. We signed 14 portal players this year and had more but some left or did not show up.

The problem is hitting on 2 and 3* HS players. The portal gives a coach the opportunity to see a player against better competition. The winning teams going forward will have a good QB and load up with the portal. Unless of course you are a top 10 team who picks and chooses top talent.

[AppStFan1]

Money talks. Start losing fans and lower Yosef donations and players will be admitted. The days of the “student athlete” went out the window with the portal and NIL. Almost every fan base thinks their academic standards are too high when in reality underperforming “student athletes” are admitted annually. It’s up to the coach to understand the current environment and build their roster.

Very true. I like our standards and hope we don't lower them. This is why Shawn has to focus more on high school players. We need to take portal players but our numbers should not be in the 15 range either. Teams who hit the portal a lot are missing big on high school recruits. I would love to see us get to where we take in 3-5 real good ones each year and don't need to sign 15-20 just to have a good two-deep.

Decisions on portal players should be based on whether the additions will make the team better rather than an arbitrary number. Some years that may only be 3-5 players, some years significantly more.

I agree with that but my point is that if you are signing 22-25 high school players and hitting on enough of them you won't need to sign more than 10 portal players in a year. If we hit on a high rate then we will only have enough room for a few players. I could see it being 2-3 one year and then 6 the next year but we are getting 15-20 then we had way too many misses. We signed 14 portal players this year and had more but some left or did not show up.

The problem is hitting on 2 and 3* HS players. The portal gives a coach the opportunity to see a player against better competition. The winning teams going forward will have a good QB and load up with the portal. Unless of course you are a top 10 team who picks and chooses top talent.

You mean like Colorado did? They are 4-3, lost to a Stanford team who lost to Sac State and pounded by the good Pac-12 teams.

While we are talking about the portal. How many players do you think JMU brought in? They got 6 from the portal, which is right in that range I have said to target. JMU is hitting on high school players and developing talent better than we are right now.

[DenverOfTheEast]

A better stat would be to show how many of them are starters. Have their average playtime beside each player on each teams roster for comparison. What are their game stats? How many of those players actually matter?

Ive never really believed in rebuild years in college sports. You know your players will be with you for 3-4 years. That is why you are constantly recruiting to have their replacements on the team and ready for when they leave. If your replacements aren't good enough that is on you as the coach. Calling it a rebuild year just means the coach didn't do their job well enough on the recruiting front. Calling it a rebuild year is just an excuse. That goes for every team out there. Now throw in the portal and that makes the rebuild idea even more of an excuse. Especially a coach in year 4.

Clark has a lot to prove at this point. Each season under him has been a decline from the last. So far this season is following that trend. He's got time to turn it around with his recruits that he should have had trained up for this moment so we will see how we end this season. Enthusiasm is great, blind enthusiasm doesn't help. Blind enthusiasm invites mediocrity as the norm. Constantly chiding those that disagrees with you helps absolutely nothing but your ego which isn't what "team" players do. That just makes me think you want fans mad at each other and that you purposely want division which is the opposite of what we need. So starting yet another thread to achieve that helps no one but your ego. Aka, not a team player. Thankfully you don't have Clark's ear as that would be horrible for our organization, and if by some reason you do, maybe that explains the mediocrity.

1) you are more than welcome to do this big guy,

2)And no one in coaching coulda have predicted a COVID log jam and the portal and what that would do to rosters.

It has greatly improved (portal) some programs but it is about to come back to earth, plus we don't mention the possible NIL money other programs are paying compared to Appy.

Ehh, I'm not going to research it because I'm not the one trying to make a point with a very out there stat about grads/5th year seniors. A team could be full of those players and still suck, so it's not all that big of a point you think it is.

Correct, no one could have predicted the COVID log jam, but everyone is having to deal with it. Better coaches are doing a better job than others. They are being rewarded for being good team managers with wins on the field. Others did not prepare and have not embraced the new landscape and are faltering.

NIL is what it is. We just have to focus on developing players with the understanding that some of the best may transfer their junior year if they get money offers and I don't blame them one bit. We have to have recruits ready behind them. Assume you have players for three years at best and be ready to replace via recruitment or portal. College basketball has been dealing with the short term players for years now. You just have to adjust or accept your fate.

totally disagree, this a much bigger deal in college sports than you want to admit the past 2 seasons, current seasons and 2024 will and have all been affected by older kids.

What's the makeup of Kermits roster last season? (definitely older) his best in SBC tenure also.

My point doesn't equal championship success, but in case of Duke, they are ranked and when 21 Grad students leave after season they will drop back to the middle or lower class of football. Unless they find a way to bring in the correct perfect class of graduate transfers again.

[t4pizza]

This is a fair statement. I do think it matters to get kids on campus. That is a difference maker for us... just my humble opinion..especially with all the coaching changes. All the "missed" are not on Coach Clark. Our former DC seems like a great guy and all ..but he was not killing himself on the recruiting trail. The last two recruiting classes have been good compared to other SBC teams per ratings (however it matters on the field I get that)...but 6 sophomores starting on D appear to show the upperclassmen are not beating out the younger guys.

I want them on campus as well. Another change in our recruiting strategy that I think has hurt is trying to wrap it up a lot earlier. We use to find so many late gems and we have to be balanced by going after big time players who are coveted but also find those 2-3 diamonds in the rough that can become stars for us. We have put a lot of players in the NFL by doing that.

Surely you're not saying that, as a strategy, we shouldn't seek filling our needs earlier. Yes, we did used to get those late commits, but since the early signing period has been in effect, and now with the portal in full swing, nothing works the way it used to work. I don't know that those gems are still out there in today's world. In the old world, there were always some studs who were holding out for that possible P5 offer and lots of movement before signing day. I just think that, in today's world if you are still trying to fill needs in the High School recruiting market in February, you have likely missed the boat. I'm not saying never, but I can't imagine that being a strategy.

Hold a few spaces open for last minute or transfer but early commits are a good thing.

It's not holding the spaces that's the big deal, App State only has 1 major that these "portal kids" can technically transfer into 1) communications

It's the Progress toward degree rule where App kills their athletic programs in the new portal world, plus App State doesn't;t take C's -- only A's AND B's from other institutions.

Marshall, both Georgia schools, all the west division teams and coastal Carolina will take D's from another transcript. I would say ODU and JMU are a bit conservative but I wouldn't bet against them either.

Ivy League schools can't even recruit a player until they see their grades to make sure they can get in school so instead of recruiting first and then finding out on academics after they get their transcript so they don't waste time. We don't have as much time from portal opening to signing day so we can't do that as easily. That goes back to my point that Shawn should adjust and not dip in the portal as much so he is not left with a last minute opening because they can't get in school.

This isn't exactly true about the Ivy's. They do recruit based on previous years grades and tests scores AND the entry requirements for athletes is FAR FAR FAR lower than their regular entrance requirements. I have known several kids that were recruited by Ivys and they were tolda that they only needed a 3.5 to get in as football. None had presented their transcripts to the school prior to the recruitment. I can assure you that NOBODY except athletes gets into any Ivy with a 3.5 ever (my oldest went to Dartmouth so I am very well aware of the caliber of the student body).

[AppDub]

After watching football around the Sunbelt today, I will be shocked if we do better than 5-7 this year. I think Southern Miss and ODU are beatable, but I can’t see us hanging with anyone else. Hope I’m wrong, but it seems this team is already fractured considering DOTE was posting about how certain players already have deals lined up for next year with P5s (which got deleted by mods I’m assuming because that’s entirely inappropriate to post on a public forum). Marshall, GaSt, GaSo, and JMU are head and shoulders better than us. I guess it’s because they have so much more money and support than App State does from what others have stated on this forum. App just can’t hang with powerhouse schools like GaSt who brings in tons of money and just has a crazy football atmosphere. We’re doing the best we can with #TeamClark!

Is this the same GaSt. That hasn't beaten App since Shawn Elliot has been coach and barely fills their stadium? They may beat App this year, but not sure I'd call them a powerhouse just yet

[teller]

I hope and pray that Shawn has someone around him as smart as me to put this on paper in front of Dougie and the Circle of Fakes:

The following teams and the number of 5th year or older players, I researched each roster web site,(you are free to google this as well) the following numbers DO NOT INCLUDE normal seniors:


#17 - DUKE - has 25 Graduate Transfers, yes 25!!! probably the reason they are ranked and whipped Clemson.

JMU - 13 Graduate or 5th year seniors
MARSHALL - 13 Graduate or 5th year seniors
GA State - 14 Graduate or 5th year seniors

now here is where this sh*t gets good.....

Coastal Carolina has 31 Graduate or 5th year seniors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ga STINK University --- 31 Graduate or OLDER.
They have 11 players in their 6th year of COLLEGE!! and 1 player in his 7th year!! (this reminded me of a YosefCabin board member AppState95&97 )


Now, how many does #TeamClark/AppState have __________ only 7........

So I would say and continue to repeat myself this is the rebuild!!!!! leave him alone he is building it back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rebuild? Are you serious? He and his staff had the same opportunity as every other HC and staff to take advantage of the portal. This post is a complete joke.

[appdaze]

Here is a site where you can look at everyone's depth chart with the year next to each student. I only counted RS/JRs or older that are listed in teams starting lineups. Some undefeated teams have the same or fewer than teams with losing records. Every team in the nation has a number of these players. It didn't magically make them better than others. You're argument holds no true weight when you actually break it down team by team, depth chart by depth chart. You are welcome to keep trying to make this argument but the real data just doesn't back you.


We have 12 RS/Jr or higher starting
https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-d ... tate/92913


Here is JMU, they have 16 starting
https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-d ... ison/93005

Here is Duke at 20 starters
https://www.ourlads.com/ncaa-football-d ... duke/90406

GA st has 22
Stink 19
UNCC 18
Coastal 18
ECU 14
Liberty 17
L-monroe 19
L-Cajuns 17
Troy 15

Michigan 19
Ohio State 11
New Mexico 19