#TeamClark

[appgrad95&97]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

For starters I am not in either camp (fire/not fire). I mostly agree on your post, unless we lose this weekend. That will show me that this staff cannot get this team over any type of hump. At that point, I would like to see a change and give someone else a chance even if that means another rough year (which it would be anyway). IF we can't beat this SM team, at home, then imho there is no hope and it would be counterproductive to retain the staff.

I felt all along this would be a tough year and next year would be a lot better. My preference is not to compound the problem with ANOTHER year of major staff changes. If we lose the rest, blow it up; if we win 1 or 2 and are competitive in the rest, I am good with 1 more year. With all this said, this has been really rough to watch.

All of this is fine and I agree. But there has to be a standard. Look, I don't expect to win the Sun Belt every year. I don't expect to win the East every year. But I do expect to compete for the East every year. Competing for a conference or divisional title has been the Appalachian standard for basically 20 years.

Yes the conference is better, but honestly who expected to go 3-5 in conference last year? Who looked at this year's schedule and expected to go... maybe 4-4? Personally, I have no problem giving Clark another season. I do have a problem with the exceptions dropping to less than competing for the division title every year.

Agree. I'm not advocating for another year no matter what or just because he is our guy. The results have been competitive but obviously disappointing. In 2021, SC said "we lost 3 games and didn't win a championship. that's not the standard at App St". He knows it. We all know it. The standard isn't getting changed because we see out his contract. The team is playing hard and seem to be committed. We didn't lose a lot in portal after 6-6 which shows they stayed committed. If the wheels fall off, the team stops playing for him, etc then sure, evaluate if another year makes sense. What I've seen to date says, let him see it through. It may just be the fastest way to get results is returning a strong team and sticking together. Maybe not, but I would rather try it that way.

Fine. Just tell me what he has to do next year. If there's a standard, give it to me.

[asunate]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

For starters I am not in either camp (fire/not fire). I mostly agree on your post, unless we lose this weekend. That will show me that this staff cannot get this team over any type of hump. At that point, I would like to see a change and give someone else a chance even if that means another rough year (which it would be anyway). IF we can't beat this SM team, at home, then imho there is no hope and it would be counterproductive to retain the staff.

I felt all along this would be a tough year and next year would be a lot better. My preference is not to compound the problem with ANOTHER year of major staff changes. If we lose the rest, blow it up; if we win 1 or 2 and are competitive in the rest, I am good with 1 more year. With all this said, this has been really rough to watch.

All of this is fine and I agree. But there has to be a standard. Look, I don't expect to win the Sun Belt every year. I don't expect to win the East every year. But I do expect to compete for the East every year. Competing for a conference or divisional title has been the Appalachian standard for basically 20 years.

Yes the conference is better, but honestly who expected to go 3-5 in conference last year? Who looked at this year's schedule and expected to go... maybe 4-4? Personally, I have no problem giving Clark another season. I do have a problem with the exceptions dropping to less than competing for the division title every year.

Agree. I'm not advocating for another year no matter what or just because he is our guy. The results have been competitive but obviously disappointing. In 2021, SC said "we lost 3 games and didn't win a championship. that's not the standard at App St". He knows it. We all know it. The standard isn't getting changed because we see out his contract. The team is playing hard and seem to be committed. We didn't lose a lot in portal after 6-6 which shows they stayed committed. If the wheels fall off, the team stops playing for him, etc then sure, evaluate if another year makes sense. What I've seen to date says, let him see it through. It may just be the fastest way to get results is returning a strong team and sticking together. Maybe not, but I would rather try it that way.

Fine. Just tell me what he has to do next year. If there's a standard, give it to me.

Just like you said, competing for the East. Next year and every year beyond. That's the minimum. 9-3 depending on OOC schedule each year would be a quantitative way to look at it.

[appgrad95&97]

For starters I am not in either camp (fire/not fire). I mostly agree on your post, unless we lose this weekend. That will show me that this staff cannot get this team over any type of hump. At that point, I would like to see a change and give someone else a chance even if that means another rough year (which it would be anyway). IF we can't beat this SM team, at home, then imho there is no hope and it would be counterproductive to retain the staff.

I felt all along this would be a tough year and next year would be a lot better. My preference is not to compound the problem with ANOTHER year of major staff changes. If we lose the rest, blow it up; if we win 1 or 2 and are competitive in the rest, I am good with 1 more year. With all this said, this has been really rough to watch.

All of this is fine and I agree. But there has to be a standard. Look, I don't expect to win the Sun Belt every year. I don't expect to win the East every year. But I do expect to compete for the East every year. Competing for a conference or divisional title has been the Appalachian standard for basically 20 years.

Yes the conference is better, but honestly who expected to go 3-5 in conference last year? Who looked at this year's schedule and expected to go... maybe 4-4? Personally, I have no problem giving Clark another season. I do have a problem with the exceptions dropping to less than competing for the division title every year.

Agree. I'm not advocating for another year no matter what or just because he is our guy. The results have been competitive but obviously disappointing. In 2021, SC said "we lost 3 games and didn't win a championship. that's not the standard at App St". He knows it. We all know it. The standard isn't getting changed because we see out his contract. The team is playing hard and seem to be committed. We didn't lose a lot in portal after 6-6 which shows they stayed committed. If the wheels fall off, the team stops playing for him, etc then sure, evaluate if another year makes sense. What I've seen to date says, let him see it through. It may just be the fastest way to get results is returning a strong team and sticking together. Maybe not, but I would rather try it that way.

Fine. Just tell me what he has to do next year. If there's a standard, give it to me.

Just like you said, competing for the East. Next year and every year beyond. That's the minimum. 9-3 depending on OOC schedule each year would be a quantitative way to look at it.

I love it! So, three out of conference wins and six Sun Belt wins next year. We know Costal, Marshall, and GA Southern will be on the road. JMU, ODU and GA State will be in Boone. I think we get AR State and Louisiana out of the West. I'd take 9-3 all day long.

[mike87]

The brand is being tarnished. It's tarnished when teams come into the rock and eat our lunch. It's tarnished when we look downright uncompetitive on national TV against peer institutions. It's tarnished going to a bowl and getting embarrassed, returning home and handing out more money and a ridiculous buyout to an App guy that couldn't get a HC job at any other peer institution ( Bush league style.) It's tarnished when there is a new excuse at the end of the year, then the middle of the year and now the beginning of the year, and it's always "next year." If we're committed to success, then demand it, and hold the line. Otherwise, just sink back to the FCS and save the cash.

No it's not.
No one has eaten App State biscuits n gravy in the Rock, Clark is 19-4 at the Rock.
Every game has been competitive this year, what is wrong with you, stay sober and pay attention during the games.

App State football is a top 10 job outside of the multi million dollar jobs in the country, regardless of recent 6-6 record and what happens next 6 weeks. National Titles, P5 wins, SBC titles, Bowl wins, Head Coaches use it as a stepping stone job, that's why it will not be tarnished in the eyes of football people.

Easy on the Sober there cowboy. otherwise, preach.

[Saint3333]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

[CharlotteApp05]

It is funny because technically on this message board you can hide who you are, so it feels like folks would/ could show more emotion, be more frustrated, yell crazy things. But this board is at least respectful and right now does look balanced 50/50 with tons of respect for the team.

If any of you follow App State Football on facebook, obviously a site where you are not anonymous, it has gotten out of control. People are screaming negatives on every comment. Very entertaining, but really shows how bad of shape our fanbase is in. It is worst than you would even think reading here!

[RaleighApp27609]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

Perfectly said. If App somehow won out and got to the conference championship game then great. But outside of Southern Miss, the rest of the games are probable losses this year. It seems like there are a handful of fans on here who are completely fine with a 4-8 2023 record and not only that, but also a bad to mediocre record in 2024 with the same staff in place. I am already predicting 6-6 or 7-5 in 2024. I never thought I would see loyalty to a coach that ignored performance on the field year after year.

[CharlotteApp05]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

I'm wondering if that is because of some of the folks coming out and saying insiders feel like we are keeping Clark no matter what.

[Saint3333]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

I'm wondering if that is because of some of the folks coming out and saying insiders feel like we are keeping Clark no matter what.

When donors that cherish their “insider” status with a coach get to make decisions that hasn’t worked out so well for us (I.e. basketball).

This profession is a reputation business, is our on and off the field reputation better or worse. Off the field it’s likely the best it’s ever been, on the field it’s the worst it’s been in 20 years.

[311neers]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

I'm wondering if that is because of some of the folks coming out and saying insiders feel like we are keeping Clark no matter what.

When donors that cherish their “insider” status with a coach get to make decisions that hasn’t worked out so well for us (I.e. basketball).

This profession is a reputation business, is our on and off the field reputation better or worse. Off the field it’s likely the best it’s ever been, on the field it’s the worst it’s been in 20 years.

7-5 or better. Or so we all thought. Maybe it’s now 4-8. I just puked typing that record!
It’s almost like we all forgot about ULM, Coastal and ODU.

[JMappfan5]

Vote of confidence coming from DG. May also be public response. Calm down guys...

[appstate5]

CBSSports.com weekly rankings. We are now 88 out of 133 teams.

[appstate5]

We are near the bottom third of FBS teams.....now how does that sound??!!

[appdaze]

I can't focus on this thead any longer. I tried to read all the posts but they just blurred together after I read the most important post by DOTE.

I can't get the idea of having biscuits and gravy while watching App play out of my head now. I might just shell out for booth seats if they served a southern-style breakfast with biscuits and gravy, fried bologna, livermush, eggs over easy, buttery grits, toast, jam, and creamed rice, with some sweet tea.

They could sell biscuits and gravy in stadium cups like some places do ice cream.......
Concessions could have livermush and egg sandwiches, or fried bologna and egg with cheese......

[Stonewall]

I'm starving now , thanks alot.

[appgrad95&97]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

I'm wondering if that is because of some of the folks coming out and saying insiders feel like we are keeping Clark no matter what.

When donors that cherish their “insider” status with a coach get to make decisions that hasn’t worked out so well for us (I.e. basketball).

This profession is a reputation business, is our on and off the field reputation better or worse. Off the field it’s likely the best it’s ever been, on the field it’s the worst it’s been in 20 years.

I honestly don't think that this is on donors. I bet this is Gillin's doing. AppStateNews, really is/was the mouthpiece for Jack Branch. I have no problem believing that Gillin has been saying the same things: "Satt and Drink left the cupboard bear." "We are young and 2024 is the year." "We are just a few plays away." Everyone of those excuses and more. I would bet money that Gillin is defending Clark with the donors not from them.

[GSUwasGump’sFallbackSchool]

We've now reaching the portion of the program that some are keeping Clark no matter the record at the end of the season. The goal post is no longer located in Kidd Brewer it's shifted so far.

The goalpost have been moved to Linville Gorge

The resigned belief is now, “ oh we should keep him because money and we could go x-x.” While trends sharply point in the opposite direction.

[GSUwasGump’sFallbackSchool]

I'm starving now , thanks alot.

We were promised crow, dammit!

[AppYosef!]

Been following App and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. The last few years have seen so much change (NIL, transfer portal, etc) it has made me wonder about our "culture" of a program. JM, SS, and now SC have built that "culture" in a certain way. Signing certain types of guys, building them into men, growing their faith, and so on. A lot of that goes out the window with NIL/portal/etc. So the question becomes, is this culture still the way to do it? (see Dabo for another example and the criticism/questions he is drawing around determination to keep a culture).

Which leads to this current dilemma on Coach Clark. Yes, he is family and poured his heart/soul into this program more than the combined efforts of anyone posting on this board. Yes, this is a results business and he is accountable for those results. But I hope we give him, and these kids, another year. Not because of the trend of last year and this year. But because this whole thing has been built on culture and our culture says our guy has a contract and we believe in him and these kids. One more year proves we're committed to this group who signed and agreed to play here. Everyone will know next year is a proving year. And if it doesn't work then there will be no doubts. If we change, next year is likely a bust anyway.

Plus, the "brand" will not be damaged with one more year. See Boise State if you need an example. Without looking it up, anyone know their record? 3-4. They went 10-4 last year, 7-5 the year prior (same 3 year record as us). If Boise comes back next year and goes to the playoff would anyone be surprised? Or even know their "brand" had been down? No. It will be the same with App. The brand is strong enough to hold for now. A few more years, ok. But not yet.

It won't be popular, but I hope we stick it out.

I like this post. It says so many things that I have wanted to say myself but have not been able to put into words. I feel that we finally have a quality coaching staff that is committed to this team and university for the longhaul and not just looking at it as a stepping stone to a higher paying gig. New OC, DC, O line, D line...with that sort of coaching turnover in a single year you are basically resetting the clock.

Take into account that we entered the season with two untested QBs (one who hasn't started since high school, and the other a part-time starter in JuCo) and we lost our starting Center to Oklahoma and projected starting DE/LB to Auburn (where he's starting). I don't see where we as fans could have expected much more this season...dream sure...but not legitimately expect.

I started as a fan during the Sparky Woods years when he had us knocking on the door of the National Championship and regularly ranked in the top of the polls. Then Coach Moore came in and we were decent but even some of his own former players came to suggest (strongly) that he should retire because the team had become stagnant and we'd never get over the hump. But we stuck with him and look what happened. Three National Titles, a statue, and a Hall of Fame legacy that any coach would love to have.

I can accept a few lackluster seasons if it gives Coach Clark and his staff a chance to live up to their potential. There is so much talent on this team but a lot of it is in our youngest players. If we can keep the players from jumping ship to bigger schools this team is going to be exciting to watch over the next couple of seasons. All this talk about firing the coach is a detriment to our current players and any recruits who may be looking to come here.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Hopefully after this Saturday coach can pull out a different press conference initial comment-

"Tough loss against (fill in the blank). Our players and coaches were very disappointed with a very close loss to (fill in the blank). The players have put it behind them and moved on to (fill in the blank).

"We absolutely whooped that ass Saturday and we are ready to win out and get App State Football back on top"!