The Real 2014 App State

[sixtoes9134]

I agree with everything said. One player I noticed the other night who brings life and intensity is Alex Gray. He had some off the field issues but looked to be a vocal leader on the sidelines when he was involved.

Hope he keeps his head on straight off the field.

I hadn't been paying that close attention to the Gray situation, but did notice he played Saturday night, was this his first game back?

[moonshine]

No Gray played last week in Statesboro.

[moonshine]

I agree that all coaches need to be evaluated at the end of the year. Of the group that you noted I think that Sloan and Stepp have proven their value to us as recruiters. The fact that Ledford played in the NFL should help with the the O-line but not all players make great coaches so we will see. Keep in mind that we are a G5 team which generally means that we are a stepping stone to a bigger and better job. We are like a minor league farm system for coaches. We will have yearly attrition so we are always going to have some young inexperienced members of our staff.

I agree about Sloan and Stepp and I wasn't trying to imply that all of our coaches need FBS experience (App couldn't afford that kind of staff), just pointing out that this staff lacks FBS experience across the board outside of some GA gigs. Most of these guys spent their careers in the high school, Juco and FCS ranks with the majority of that time being spent at 1 or 2 programs. Staying in one place, especially these days, sounds like a coach who wasn't sought after by other programs or that coach was resting on their laurels. Please don't take my post to mean I want all these guys gone. I want them all to succeed! However, if they don't show improvement, Satt has to make the difficult call to cut ties and bring in some new ideas.

[APPARJ]

From 2010-12, App State won many games by having superior skills players. We were more talented than good. In FCS and the SoCon, we got away with our deficiencies because the talent pool is a lot smaller. Our 05-09 successes made the SoCon recruit more speed and less size, which played to our advantage later on. We paid for our deficiencies in the playoffs those years, but the team was still on the right side of 500 because of Quick, Price, Kimbrough, DP, McCoy and many others who would make a big play when needed.

I agree with every word of this post. Spot on.

[AppSt94]

I agree that all coaches need to be evaluated at the end of the year. Of the group that you noted I think that Sloan and Stepp have proven their value to us as recruiters. The fact that Ledford played in the NFL should help with the the O-line but not all players make great coaches so we will see. Keep in mind that we are a G5 team which generally means that we are a stepping stone to a bigger and better job. We are like a minor league farm system for coaches. We will have yearly attrition so we are always going to have some young inexperienced members of our staff.

I agree about Sloan and Stepp and I wasn't trying to imply that all of our coaches need FBS experience (App couldn't afford that kind of staff), just pointing out that this staff lacks FBS experience across the board outside of some GA gigs. Most of these guys spent their careers in the high school, Juco and FCS ranks with the majority of that time being spent at 1 or 2 programs. Staying in one place, especially these days, sounds like a coach who wasn't sought after by other programs or that coach was resting on their laurels. Please don't take my post to mean I want all these guys gone. I want them all to succeed! However, if they don't show improvement, Satt has to make the difficult call to cut ties and bring in some new ideas.

Shine - I wasn't trying to refute what you were saying or nit pick the details. Just piggy backing off what you were saying and offering a reason for us to keep the three I mentioned on board. Sorry for the confusion.

[APPARJ]

I agree with everything said. One player I noticed the other night who brings life and intensity is Alex Gray. He had some off the field issues but looked to be a vocal leader on the sidelines when he was involved.

Hope he keeps his head on straight off the field.

Yeah, when he was on the field he was so much bigger than the rest of our defensive backfield players. He laid the wood on one hit too. I was impressed with his play yesterday.

It is easy for me to notice Gray because he is significantly bigger than our other safeties. Frankly, AJ Howard, pound for pound, can hit harder than anyone on the team. But he is very small compared to Gray.

That's what I mean when I say physically, we're small and that must be fixed. AJ Howard is a Sun Belt recruit and I believe he'll get bigger and stronger to eventually become a safety version of DJ Smith. But for now, his size doesn't help him.

[APPARJ]

I like it that many are seeing reality. The loss to Villanova was like a cold sudden chill of an ice bucket challenge, for me anyway. Tons more football talent (according to the NFL) on the field and get smacked down at home in a hugely important game that had national championship implications, like we didn't have a clue. There are other examples, but Villanova was the epitome of a need for a new direction. Changes in the program that can be debated ad nauseum, were needed and made, but not soon enough looking in the rear view mirror. But in APP State's case, a football program is very much like huge cargo ship on headed one way and needs to make a turn, it takes a while to do that. Hopefully, the chiefs in charge have the right people for the monumental task, time will tell. We are bottoming from a pretty enviable run since the Mike Working days. Since then, the success of the football program fertilized the many facets of Appalachian State University, the town of Boone, and The High Country. Are most of those going to suffer, when the inflow of cash to area isn't here during football season? Most definitely YES. Fans vote with their pocket books. The football program is financially very important for a lot of reasons. It needs to be treated as such.

Wow. When I look back to when I first realized Jerry Moore had to go, I think back to the Maine playoff game in 2011 (3 rushing yards... ). But you're right. We had more talent than Villanova and got curb stomped by way of coaching and execution at The Rock.

It's so hard to make changes when you're making the playoffs and winning the conference. However, the REAL gauge of success should be "did we maximize our potential?" If that was the gauge during that period of time, I would argue JM began to significantly fail most notably in 2010.

Great observation.

[App91]

I like it that many are seeing reality. The loss to Villanova was like a cold sudden chill of an ice bucket challenge, for me anyway. Tons more football talent (according to the NFL) on the field and get smacked down at home in a hugely important game that had national championship implications, like we didn't have a clue. There are other examples, but Villanova was the epitome of a need for a new direction. Changes in the program that can be debated ad nauseum, were needed and made, but not soon enough looking in the rear view mirror. But in APP State's case, a football program is very much like huge cargo ship on headed one way and needs to make a turn, it takes a while to do that. Hopefully, the chiefs in charge have the right people for the monumental task, time will tell. We are bottoming from a pretty enviable run since the Mike Working days. Since then, the success of the football program fertilized the many facets of Appalachian State University, the town of Boone, and The High Country. Are most of those going to suffer, when the inflow of cash to area isn't here during football season? Most definitely YES. Fans vote with their pocket books. The football program is financially very important for a lot of reasons. It needs to be treated as such.

Wow. When I look back to when I first realized Jerry Moore had to go, I think back to the Maine playoff game in 2011 (3 rushing yards... ). But you're right. We had more talent than Villanova and got curb stomped by way of coaching and execution at The Rock.

It's so hard to make changes when you're making the playoffs and winning the conference. However, the REAL gauge of success should be "did we maximize our potential?" If that was the gauge during that period of time, I would argue JM began to significantly fail most notably in 2010.

Great observation.

It started with Vanilla-Nova, arrogance that you knew what we were going to do and we still beat you. We we got it handed to us. Same with Maine and Ill state. Arrogance that we were not worried about yours and you can t stop ours. THat did not end well.

[NoLongerLurking]

I haven't properly introduced myself, but I'm Mike and new to the boards. I was a student before the 3 peat; joined the military in '07 and am now back as a 32 year old disabled combat vet undergrad in the Walker School of Bidniss. I lurked for some time on these boards, but finally decided to get in on the discussion (hence my username).

I have a question for those harnessing wisdom related to recruiting. Folks keep bringing up recruiting, an aspect of college football I willingly admit my ignorance to. How exactly does an FBS school get good FBS caliber recruits with an unproven coach, losing records, and an empty stadium after halftime during their visit? Aren't many FBS athletes expecting at least a shot in the NFL? I'm new to this FBS world and, like I said, ignorant to recruiting.... but why would a guy with offers from the ACC, CUSA, etc want to come to the Sun Belt's (hypothetically) worst ranked team? I think if we do have guys on staff that can reel those kids in, they deserve to stay on staff.... at the same time i don't know how to hold recruiters responsible when they are trying to sell a lemon.

[APPARJ]

I haven't properly introduced myself, but I'm Mike and new to the boards. I was a student before the 3 peat; joined the military in '07 and am now back as a 32 year old disabled combat vet undergrad in the Walker School of Bidniss. I lurked for some time on these boards, but finally decided to get in on the discussion (hence my username).

I have a question for those harnessing wisdom related to recruiting. Folks keep bringing up recruiting, an aspect of college football I willingly admit my ignorance to. How exactly does an FBS school get good FBS caliber recruits with an unproven coach, losing records, and an empty stadium after halftime during their visit? Aren't many FBS athletes expecting at least a shot in the NFL? I'm new to this FBS world and, like I said, ignorant to recruiting.... but why would a guy with offers from the ACC, CUSA, etc want to come to the Sun Belt's (hypothetically) worst ranked team? I think if we do have guys on staff that can reel those kids in, they deserve to stay on staff.... at the same time i don't know how to hold recruiters responsible when they are trying to sell a lemon.

The most important element in recruiting involves the relationship coaches build with players. For example, Coach Stepp developed a really great relationship with Shaedon Meadors who was highly recruited. Meadors had offers from the Big 10, ACC and Conference USA.

I'm sure Meadors didn't pick App State for Stepp alone, but that relationship was a major factor.

Also, my guess is that coaches do a pretty good job of setting expectations with kids. I don't know for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if coaches told these FBS recruits that App State is in transition and they're looking to build the next generation of winning teams. Kids know the drill. We aren't winning and we have a lot of FCS kids on the roster.

Facilities are important to a lot of kids but I highly doubt that is ever the main reason a recruit signs.

From what I understand, relationships with coaches, possible playing time, game day experience/fan support, the hopes of winning, campus and facilities all play a role. When you look at that equation (which is in no way set in stone), it's easy to see how App State would be able to compete for FBS recruits.

Hope this helps!

[Appstate88]

I say send ponce packing.

[APPARJ]

I say send ponce packing.

Based on what?

[EastHallApp]

I haven't properly introduced myself, but I'm Mike and new to the boards. I was a student before the 3 peat; joined the military in '07 and am now back as a 32 year old disabled combat vet undergrad in the Walker School of Bidniss. I lurked for some time on these boards, but finally decided to get in on the discussion (hence my username).

I have a question for those harnessing wisdom related to recruiting. Folks keep bringing up recruiting, an aspect of college football I willingly admit my ignorance to. How exactly does an FBS school get good FBS caliber recruits with an unproven coach, losing records, and an empty stadium after halftime during their visit? Aren't many FBS athletes expecting at least a shot in the NFL? I'm new to this FBS world and, like I said, ignorant to recruiting.... but why would a guy with offers from the ACC, CUSA, etc want to come to the Sun Belt's (hypothetically) worst ranked team? I think if we do have guys on staff that can reel those kids in, they deserve to stay on staff.... at the same time i don't know how to hold recruiters responsible when they are trying to sell a lemon.

Good response from APPARJ. A few points I would add-

- You have to sell your strengths. If your team is struggling, you sell recruits on the idea that they're needed and will have a shot to play early.

- Your point about the game environment is spot on and part of the reason this season isn't really "meaningless." Even with the empty seats, App probably draws favorably to other Sun Belt teams. But obviously the environment Saturday was not nearly as impressive as those of the good ol' days.

- Being an unproven coach cuts both ways. New coaches are a blank slate. Yes they're unproven, but they also don't have the baggage of losses and disappointing seasons. Often coaches have their best recruiting success in their first year or two - when they can sell recruits on their vision without having any pesky reality to explain away. SS did well with that last year, though of course he is probably coming to the end of that stage of his tenure.

[NoLongerLurking]

Good insight from both you guys. Thanks.

[appbio91]

In my opinion, Satterfield needs to hire an offensive coordinator that he can trust. Apparently the dual coordinator route didn't work, and he is now calling the plays himself.
1) that is probably the trouble getting plays called quickly, since he isn't in the box he has to get the call from the box for defensive alignment and call the play.
2) as the head coach, you can't do everything. You must hire competent staff that you trust. If you don't want to relinquish the calling of plays, become the offensive coordinator and sit in the box.

I am going to rep you and agree 100%. I have been saying for a while that Satt needs to go back to the booth not because I think he is a bad head coach but because I think who ever is in the booth evaluating things is not getting it done. Come on Cox up the middle on 95% of first downs. Even if you leave the rose colored glasses on that is bullshit.

[AppState89]

In my opinion, Satterfield needs to hire an offensive coordinator that he can trust. Apparently the dual coordinator route didn't work, and he is now calling the plays himself.
1) that is probably the trouble getting plays called quickly, since he isn't in the box he has to get the call from the box for defensive alignment and call the play.
2) as the head coach, you can't do everything. You must hire competent staff that you trust. If you don't want to relinquish the calling of plays, become the offensive coordinator and sit in the box.

I am going to rep you and agree 100%. I have been saying for a while that Satt needs to go back to the booth not because I think he is a bad head coach but because I think who ever is in the booth evaluating things is not getting it done. Come on Cox up the middle on 95% of first downs. Even if you leave the rose colored glasses on that is bullshit.

I'm gonna rep you on the 95% up the middle. Everyone in the freaking world knows it's going up the middle...

[WVAPPeer]

APPARJ wrote:
"But you're right. We had more talent than Villanova and got curb stomped by way of coaching and execution at The Rock."

Don't know if you were referring to my comments or not --- But, no, you have my thoughts backwards - Villanova had more talent that us, they were the better team --- Maine did not, they came to play and beat us that day ---

[Apptiger]

Sorry Black Saturday for the use of the V word ---

It's the R word.


Reality




Where were you and I on Saturday?

I am still wretching from the mere mention of that name. Also grateful that Scott is not him. I don't think we are at a point where we can sustain another long down period like that one. We need to win to continue to have big draws.

As great as Boone is, it is not convenient to attend for a lot of folks. People won't go to the trouble to go to every game unless we are winning or at least competitive. It will become less of a priority and others things will suddenly seem more important. Those rotating 5-10K that attend a few games a year in may come back at homecoming but that may be about it. We'll get 12-15k most games and 21-24k at homecoming like the (really) old days.

[NewApp]

Sorry Black Saturday for the use of the V word ---

It's the R word.


Reality




Where were you and I on Saturday?

I am still wretching from the mere mention of that name. Also grateful that Scott is not him. I don't think we are at a point where we can sustain another long down period like that one. We need to win to continue to have big draws.

As great as Boone is, it is not convenient to attend for a lot of folks. People won't go to the trouble to go to every game unless we are winning or at least competitive. It will become less of a priority and others things will suddenly seem more important. Those rotating 5-10K that attend a few games a year in may come back at homecoming but that may be about it. We'll get 12-15k most games and 21-24k at homecoming like the (really) old days.

I hope you are wrong about the 10-15K, Apptiger.

[WVAPPeer]

In my opinion, Satterfield needs to hire an offensive coordinator that he can trust. Apparently the dual coordinator route didn't work, and he is now calling the plays himself.
1) that is probably the trouble getting plays called quickly, since he isn't in the box he has to get the call from the box for defensive alignment and call the play.
2) as the head coach, you can't do everything. You must hire competent staff that you trust. If you don't want to relinquish the calling of plays, become the offensive coordinator and sit in the box.

I am going to rep you and agree 100%. I have been saying for a while that Satt needs to go back to the booth not because I think he is a bad head coach but because I think who ever is in the booth evaluating things is not getting it done. Come on Cox up the middle on 95% of first downs. Even if you leave the rose colored glasses on that is bullshit.

The Head Coach has to be on the sidelines unless due to injury or health