App vs. GA Southern Coaching Hires

appvette · Unread post by **appvette** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:35 pm

I keep hearing and reading from people saying GSU is doing so much better because they went out and hired a proven coach. I don't understand this... at our level you either get a lower level proven head coach or an FBS proven assistant coach. You aren't going to lure away a proven FBS head coach at our level. So App went with the proven FBS assistant coach (you can't argue with the offensive turnarounds at Toledo and FIU) and GSU went with the somewhat proven FCS head coach. There's no right answer to which path is typcially better or which coach will be the better hire, but people looking back and saying GSU clearly made the better hire just based on their prior resumes are dead wrong.

TheMoody1 · Unread post by **TheMoody1** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:42 pm

Time will tell, but there is no doubt their hire looks much better today. IMO - being a great assistant doesn't always make one a great head coach. Look at Charlie Weis.

Gonzo · Unread post by **Gonzo** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:44 pm

appvette wrote:I keep hearing and reading from people saying GSU is doing so much better because they went out and hired a proven coach. I don't understand this... at our level you either get a lower level proven head coach or an FBS proven assistant coach. You aren't going to lure away a proven FBS head coach at our level. So App went with the proven FBS assistant coach (you can't argue with the offensive turnarounds at Toledo and FIU) and GSU went with the somewhat proven FCS head coach. There's no right answer to which path is typcially better or which coach will be the better hire, but people looking back and saying GSU clearly made the better hire just based on their prior resumes are dead wrong.

Willie Fritz was more than a "somewhat proven" FCS head coach. The guy had back to back national championship appearances and presided over one of the best FCS offenses of the decade.

Conversely, one could argue that Sat was only "somewhat" proven as an assistant. FIU's offensive strength was beginning to wane at the end of his tenure there and many Panthers fans complained about his predictable play calling, too many quick screens etc. Sound familiar?

I'm not saying you're dead wrong about all the things you said in your post, but I don't see how you could argue, at this point in the season, that Satt was as good of a hire as Willie Fritz. Fritz was almost too good of a hire. I could see him getting swooped by a BCS team this off season.

manonabuffalo · Unread post by **manonabuffalo** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:48 pm

Gonzo wrote:
appvette wrote:I keep hearing and reading from people saying GSU is doing so much better because they went out and hired a proven coach. I don't understand this... at our level you either get a lower level proven head coach or an FBS proven assistant coach. You aren't going to lure away a proven FBS head coach at our level. So App went with the proven FBS assistant coach (you can't argue with the offensive turnarounds at Toledo and FIU) and GSU went with the somewhat proven FCS head coach. There's no right answer to which path is typcially better or which coach will be the better hire, but people looking back and saying GSU clearly made the better hire just based on their prior resumes are dead wrong.
Willie Fritz was more than a "somewhat proven FCS head coach. They guy had back to back national championship appearances and presided over one of the best FCS offenses of the decade.

Conversely, one could argue that Sat was only "somewhat" proven as an assistant. FIU's offensive strength was beginning to wane at the end of his tenure there and many Panthers fans complained about his predictable play calling, too many quick screens etc. Sound familiar?

I'm not saying you're dead wrong about all the things you said in your post, but I don't see how you could argue, at this point in the season, that Satt was as good of a hire as Willie Fritz. Fritz was almost too good of a hire. I could see him getting swooped by a BCS team this off season.

Precisely, our two hires even on paper before this season were night and day. Fritz has won pretty much everywhere he has been as a HC. This is why I think Jamey Chadwell the HC of Charleston Southern should be our next HC. His resume proves he can turn a program around, recruit, and win with less.

appvette · Unread post by **appvette** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:56 pm

TheMoody1 wrote:Time will tell, but there is no doubt their hire looks much better today. IMO - being a great assistant doesn't always make one a great head coach. Look at Charlie Weis.

And that's my point... it might look better in hindsight but when the hires were made based on their prior resumes, they seemed pretty equal. Everybody is now acting like it was a crazy hire because he didn't have head coaching experience but his credentials weren't that far off from Fritz credentials. And if he does turn it around he will be more likely (not guaranteed) to stay.

appvette · Unread post by **appvette** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:02 pm

Gonzo wrote:
appvette wrote:I keep hearing and reading from people saying GSU is doing so much better because they went out and hired a proven coach. I don't understand this... at our level you either get a lower level proven head coach or an FBS proven assistant coach. You aren't going to lure away a proven FBS head coach at our level. So App went with the proven FBS assistant coach (you can't argue with the offensive turnarounds at Toledo and FIU) and GSU went with the somewhat proven FCS head coach. There's no right answer to which path is typcially better or which coach will be the better hire, but people looking back and saying GSU clearly made the better hire just based on their prior resumes are dead wrong.
Willie Fritz was more than a "somewhat proven" FCS head coach. The guy had back to back national championship appearances and presided over one of the best FCS offenses of the decade.

Conversely, one could argue that Sat was only "somewhat" proven as an assistant. FIU's offensive strength was beginning to wane at the end of his tenure there and many Panthers fans complained about his predictable play calling, too many quick screens etc. Sound familiar?

I'm not saying you're dead wrong about all the things you said in your post, but I don't see how you could argue, at this point in the season, that Satt was as good of a hire as Willie Fritz. Fritz was almost too good of a hire. I could see him getting swooped by a BCS team this off season.

Good points. However, I included the "somewhat" qualifier for Fritz because he never won the national championship and was only 4-3 in the below average Southland conference two of his four years there. There's no doubt he deserved a promotion but its not like he was the top coach in the nation.

Unread post by **appst89** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:27 pm

appvette wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
appvette wrote:I keep hearing and reading from people saying GSU is doing so much better because they went out and hired a proven coach. I don't understand this... at our level you either get a lower level proven head coach or an FBS proven assistant coach. You aren't going to lure away a proven FBS head coach at our level. So App went with the proven FBS assistant coach (you can't argue with the offensive turnarounds at Toledo and FIU) and GSU went with the somewhat proven FCS head coach. There's no right answer to which path is typcially better or which coach will be the better hire, but people looking back and saying GSU clearly made the better hire just based on their prior resumes are dead wrong.
Willie Fritz was more than a "somewhat proven" FCS head coach. The guy had back to back national championship appearances and presided over one of the best FCS offenses of the decade.

Conversely, one could argue that Sat was only "somewhat" proven as an assistant. FIU's offensive strength was beginning to wane at the end of his tenure there and many Panthers fans complained about his predictable play calling, too many quick screens etc. Sound familiar?

I'm not saying you're dead wrong about all the things you said in your post, but I don't see how you could argue, at this point in the season, that Satt was as good of a hire as Willie Fritz. Fritz was almost too good of a hire. I could see him getting swooped by a BCS team this off season.

Good points. However, I included the "somewhat" qualifier for Fritz because he never won the national championship and was only 4-3 in the below average Southland conference two of his four years there. There's no doubt he deserved a promotion but its not like he was the top coach in the nation.

Well, to be fair, he wasn't even the top coach in the Ga. Southern search process. If I remember correctly, he was their sixth choice.

appvette · Unread post by **appvette** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:44 pm

appst89 wrote:
appvette wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
appvette wrote:I keep hearing and reading from people saying GSU is doing so much better because they went out and hired a proven coach. I don't understand this... at our level you either get a lower level proven head coach or an FBS proven assistant coach. You aren't going to lure away a proven FBS head coach at our level. So App went with the proven FBS assistant coach (you can't argue with the offensive turnarounds at Toledo and FIU) and GSU went with the somewhat proven FCS head coach. There's no right answer to which path is typcially better or which coach will be the better hire, but people looking back and saying GSU clearly made the better hire just based on their prior resumes are dead wrong.
Willie Fritz was more than a "somewhat proven" FCS head coach. The guy had back to back national championship appearances and presided over one of the best FCS offenses of the decade.

Conversely, one could argue that Sat was only "somewhat" proven as an assistant. FIU's offensive strength was beginning to wane at the end of his tenure there and many Panthers fans complained about his predictable play calling, too many quick screens etc. Sound familiar?

I'm not saying you're dead wrong about all the things you said in your post, but I don't see how you could argue, at this point in the season, that Satt was as good of a hire as Willie Fritz. Fritz was almost too good of a hire. I could see him getting swooped by a BCS team this off season.

Good points. However, I included the "somewhat" qualifier for Fritz because he never won the national championship and was only 4-3 in the below average Southland conference two of his four years there. There's no doubt he deserved a promotion but its not like he was the top coach in the nation.
Well, to be fair, he wasn't even the top coach in the Ga. Southern search process. If I remember correctly, he was their sixth choice.

Wow I hadn't heard that

WVAPPeer · Unread post by **WVAPPeer** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:48 pm

keep in mind that GaSo has had 9 head coaches during the time we have had 2 - maybe APP has the better track record? ---

moehler · Unread post by **moehler** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:20 pm

alot depends to on what a coach inherits as his new team, we all know about Moore left behind for SS, but Fritz got the exact opposite, 4 really good senior starting offensive lineman, good running backs, a qb who is probably the best player in the SB this year, and a strong defensive line, he couldn't have walked into a better situation. Personally, I think the jury is still out on him, he made some bonehead calls at the end of the State, and GT game that cost his team, even the GS fans were pissed at some of his playcalling, of course, all is forgiven right now, and he is the next Nick Saben to the GS faithful. Also, he didn't change one thing on his defense, basically running the same as last year, unlike us, no severe learning curve. We will find out what he is made of next year, he is losing almost his entire offensive line, along with other key players. This year he doesn't have to do much coaching, just manage the same offense and defense they ran last year, next year when he has to break in a ton of new players we will find out if he can coach.

T-Dog · Unread post by **T-Dog** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:20 pm

Fritz will be somewhere else next year. He's from Kansas and they'll play him seven figures. GS can't match that.

And the crazy thing about it is that Fritz was their FOURTH choice after Monken left. They offered Jasper, Ayers (seriously) Horton, interviewed Chadwell before going with Fritz.

tclayton · Unread post by **tclayton** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:29 pm

It's obvious that we have hired the less job ready and polished product with a different set of circumstances and challenges to go along with it. I think if SS can survive his first contract term and show some sort of improvement, I think he can provide long term stability that can lead us to long term success.

The Rock · Unread post by **The Rock** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:37 pm

I agree, it's a gamble that can go either way. The only difference I can see that a head coach, albeit at the FCS level, has assembled a staff before, and worked through all the differences and added responsibilities between being a coordinator and head coach which may make the transition a bit easier.

HeffnerIV · Unread post by **HeffnerIV** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:39 pm

tclayton wrote:It's obvious that we have hired the less job ready and polished product with a different set of circumstances and challenges to go along with it. I think if SS can survive his first contract term and show some sort of improvement, I think he can provide long term stability that can lead us to long term success.

Good point. Let's also keep in mind that if he's successful here he's more likely to stay as opposed to an outsider. If I'm not mistaken, him and his family weren't crazy about their short absence from Boone.

AppFan11 · Unread post by **AppFan11** » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:44 pm

OK lets deal with this here. Lets state the obvious, the reason people are saying that he is a "good" coach is b/c they are winning... Probably 60% of the reason they are winning has little to do with their coach (no matter who he is) it is b/c of the SCHEME they run. Remember Florida and how about the year Bama won the national championship and GS had the most rushing yards against them all season that year..... does anybody think that GS has better athletes than Bama... nope... it's the scheme they run. Now transport this concept to the SunBelt... Nobody runs a triple option attack in the Belt, so none of the DCs have had to design a defense to stop it... hellooooo.... they will literally run over them all and have... secondly, maybe 30% of the reason for their success is talent/experience. Look at their roster and you'll see 55 Srs and Jrs. further look at their top 22 ... 1st O and 1stD... 17 yes 17 Srs/Jrs... 9Srs and 8 Jrs.... think that doesn't matter..... they are not playing freshmen. I do give their HC props for not screwing up a good thing. In the preseason there was a lot of talk of how they were going to throw a lot... yea right, Ellison (their qb) still can't throw well and that's how you beat them...put them in third and long... often. Just as an aside, we conversely have none of those advantages. The DC's of the Belt have been defending against the spread for years and as has been mentioned often we don't have an experienced team... on our roster... 33 Srs/Jrs and the top 22... 11 4Srs and 7Jrs and this week against Troy it will be worse with 2 less Srs and 2 more freshmen. We will start 4 Fr on D and 3 Fr on O. When you're playing freshmen you use the 70/30 rule 70% of time they'll make good plays and 30% bad plays and we have seen this play out this year. For the mods I included the exp. breakdown b/c it correlates to winning which correlates a successful coaching hire.

manonabuffalo · Unread post by **manonabuffalo** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:41 am

AppFan11 wrote:OK lets deal with this here. Lets state the obvious, the reason people are saying that he is a "good" coach is b/c they are winning... Probably 60% of the reason they are winning has little to do with their coach (no matter who he is) it is b/c of the SCHEME they run. Remember Florida and how about the year Bama won the national championship and GS had the most rushing yards against them all season that year..... does anybody think that GS has better athletes than Bama... nope... it's the scheme they run. Now transport this concept to the SunBelt... Nobody runs a triple option attack in the Belt, so none of the DCs have had to design a defense to stop it... hellooooo.... they will literally run over them all and have...

GaSouth runs a spread option now, the flex bone triple option look went to Army when Monken took that job.

Fritz's team now passes about 80-90 percent more than any TO GaSouth team has. If you watch some tape on them side by side with our teams from 2006-07 you will notice a ton of similarities in the scheme of attack. Your argument lost ground with the above nonsense.

appstate2007 · Unread post by **appstate2007** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:05 am

Well whatever offense GASO is running, maybe we should try it!

appvette · Unread post by **appvette** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:11 am

manonabuffalo wrote:
AppFan11 wrote:OK lets deal with this here. Lets state the obvious, the reason people are saying that he is a "good" coach is b/c they are winning... Probably 60% of the reason they are winning has little to do with their coach (no matter who he is) it is b/c of the SCHEME they run. Remember Florida and how about the year Bama won the national championship and GS had the most rushing yards against them all season that year..... does anybody think that GS has better athletes than Bama... nope... it's the scheme they run. Now transport this concept to the SunBelt... Nobody runs a triple option attack in the Belt, so none of the DCs have had to design a defense to stop it... hellooooo.... they will literally run over them all and have...
GaSouth runs a spread option now, the flex bone triple option look went to Army when Monken took that job.

Fritz's team now passes about 80-90 percent more than any TO GaSouth team has. If you watch some tape on them side by side with our teams from 2006-07 you will notice a ton of similarities in the scheme of attack. Your argument lost ground with the above nonsense.

Setting semantics aside, his point was that GA Southern runs an offense that is unique and difficult to plan for when you only see it once a year.

clayton · Unread post by **clayton** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:38 am

Georgia Southern has had a lot more turnover at head coach. So, they've got more experience with this sort of thing.

They also had success doing what we did. Paul Johnson was the OC for a couple of their championships. Then, he left. He came back and won more championships. Monken was with Johnson at Southern, Navy and Tech.

They've also promoted the assistant (which is technically what we did, but there had to be a handshake agreement between Cobb and Satterfield, right?). That led to seasons like we had between 2010 and 2012. Good. Not good enough.

They also brought in the outsiders. Fritz seems to be the first guy to make that work.

It's hard to find a good head coach.

Yosef84 · Unread post by **Yosef84** » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:00 am

No doubt that Fritz/GSU is winning the sprint for 2014. I still believe Satterfield has the tools to be a great coach. I truly wanted to believe that the staff was capable of building off of what appeared to be improvement in late 2013, but it's obviously pretty hard at this point. I am not calling for anyone to be fired or for any resignations. That's not my style, and even if it were, it's not the appropriate time for those discussions. It's the middle of a season, and we need to get things back on track...SOMEHOW.

I do believe that Satterfield has a plan. Right now, the plan is yellow trending red. We need a back to green action plan, but I honestly don't know what that involves at this point. I will just say that I am sure Scott is tapping into every resource at his disposal...or I sure hope he isn't trying to figure it out alone.

I've stopped trying to figure out what the rest of this season is going to look like. I will put on my black and gold Saturday and expect this to be the week it changes. That's just what I do. Someone on the coaching staff has to administer a swift kick in the seat of the pant, and a pat on the back at the same time...not an easy thing. The Apps need to wake up and know we have faith, but the time is now.

Georgia Southern is behind us. I couldn't care less about Fritz. Go Get'em Coach Satterfield. We have a few more games this year!

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