Foot Shooting

[WVAPPeer]

AGAIN --- what I am trying to differentiate is stupid penalties (late hit when player is clearly out of bounds) and penalties that are just part of the game subjective to the refs - Are you telling me the Ohio State offensive linemen don't hold or Alabama DBs don't pass interfere or the Clemson guys never jump offsides or have illegal procedure? -

I don't think you and I are that far off in our opinions, if any. I know every good team has to push the limits of what is called and what is not. A little grabbing of jersey, holding, etc. is fine and part of the competitive edge as long as the player knows where to draw the line or is inconspicuous enough not to get caught. Every team you mentioned, Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, however, have enough talent margin of error to usually overcome some penalties. For us, 80 yrds per game has been killing us. Stalling drives for our offense, extending drives for opponent, taking away pts from us, giving points to them. We don't have that luxury. That is the difference between App and the other examples you gave.

I totally agree with you when OS is playing Rutgers or Clemson is playing Syracuse (oops, sorry) or Alabama is playing Vanderbilt - But, it doesn't hold true when they are playing each other or teams with equal talent and depth ---

[Saint3333]

2017 7.75 per game, averaging 73.75, 9.5 yards per penalty. This indicate the ratio of 5, 10, 15 yard penalties is roughly the same just more frequent this year.

Are people too focused on penalties, maybe, but you never want to be in the top quartile in any category, much less the bottom 10%.

[MtnDevil95]

I really think some of you are looking at this the wrong way. I think you combine some of the observations made with others and come up with a pretty logical conclusion that does not draw the target on coaching or lack of discipline.

App State plays a particularly aggressive and physical style of football, on both sides of the ball. This aggressiveness will put the players in positions to get more hankies slung on the field. You combine that aggressiveness with a younger relatively inexperienced group of players and then toss in some play from behind situations for good measure and the number of penalties is going up no matter whose logo is on the helmet. That's just a pretty good recipe for increasing penalties and penalty yards per game.

I'd also go so far as to use BigC's logic when it comes to the kicking game. If games are being played so close that a penalty here or there is the difference in the final score, then there are certainly a multitude of other areas in need of improvement as well.

[The Rock]

I really think some of you are looking at this the wrong way. I think you combine some of the observations made with others and come up with a pretty logical conclusion that does not draw the target on coaching or lack of discipline.

App State plays a particularly aggressive and physical style of football, on both sides of the ball. This aggressiveness will put the players in positions to get more hankies slung on the field. You combine that aggressiveness with a younger relatively inexperienced group of players and then toss in some play from behind situations for good measure and the number of penalties is going up no matter whose logo is on the helmet. That's just a pretty good recipe for increasing penalties and penalty yards per game.

I'd also go so far as to use BigC's logic when it comes to the kicking game. If games are being played so close that a penalty here or there is the difference in the final score, then there are certainly a multitude of other areas in need of improvement as well.

Penalties here or there is very vague. It all depends on what penalties and at what time.
An occasional false start/offsides not a terrible thing, but when that offsides extends a drive that leads to a td when the defense has made the stop, that can (and has been) a game changer.
A personal foul that erases a td is a game changer. ( although that was complete BS call in my opinion)
Any penalty that kills an offensive drive, extends a defensive drive or takes points off the board can change the outcome of a game that other penalties would not.

[MtnDevil95]

Very true, but an offense that can consistently move the ball throughout the course of a game will not be significantly hindered by one or even two drives stalled by costly penalties. Likewise a defense that consistently forces 3rd and long and then holds for a punt will not be in a situation that a BS targeting call on a pick 6, or a 4th and short offsides that extends a drive would swing the mark from the W column to the L column.

I'm just offering logic to support the idea that the penalties are not a result of poor coaching or bad discipline, then extending to say that the struggles to dominate teams are not only caused by penalties, costly or otherwise.

[App91]

Hustle play penalties we can all live with. The mental mistake ones are the killers. Offsides on punts (especially when you are just going back in coverage), false starts at home, Unsportsman conduct and some late hits. Think you have to look at them differently. A hold on a sure sack is not so bad. False start on 3rd and 2 is a killer.

[WataugaMan]

Sometimes our guys look like they are disinterested and we don't have the same on field leadership that we have had.

I was talking yesterday with a person that has observed a few of our practices. According to him, this disinterest and lackluster leadership stands out like a sore thumb during weekday practice. He said, we play like we practice, interesting you mentioned this as well.

[AppinATL]

I attended a couple of practices during that infamous final season in the SoCon and observed the same thing. It was early in the season and I was stunned at what I saw. That was when we knew we were going nowhere and winning no championships no matter how well we played. I still was disappointed at the lack of pride as at least some motivation. This is obviously not our current situation so I'm really disappointed to hear that there seems to be a similar lack of enthusiasm. Hopefully some leadership will step up next year. We're gonna need it.

[WVAPPeer]

That last SoCon season had other circumstances that contributed