AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:19 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:37 pm
AppStFan1 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:17 pm
DenverOfTheEast wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:00 am
Someone finally admitting we play a tough schedule besides me..... I been arguing if you want to win like Drink did against a schedule that had below over .500 record, schedule easier.
THE SUN BELT IS WAYYYYYYY TOUGHER THAN IT WAS BETWEEN 2014 - 2019. #FACTS and that can't be argued.
But now we have made September even harder - bring back UMASS, New Mexico St and Idaho and #TeamClark will win 9/10 a year.
I have been saying for over a year the SBC is toughest G5 by a slight margin and with recent AAC departures it easily is now.
We were better in 2019 than we are now though. We were loaded with future NFL talent.
I feel like Clark has had 5 issues that hurt him and set us back.
1. He is not willing to be pro active in poaching small school players. He won’t do what others are doing because he feels guilty to despite fact it’s legal now. We have to do to William & Mary and Western Carolina what Auburn did to us.
2. Heard many others say this and I agree that I wanted Clark if we got BOB like he claimed when he did the bowl game. We aren’t seeing the same creative offense consistently. We pull back when we get a 2-3 score lead. He slows the tempo and tries to milk clock as early as third quarter and you can’t do that. If you got a 17 point lead in mid third the mind set has to be “let’s make it 31 by early to mid fourth and put game away.
3. He had a lot of misses in first two classes. I wasn’t opposed to some of them because you don’t know how they will develop but many of their HS film was just not that good. That can’t be overlooked.
4. Bad hires. I feel like the strength hire, some assistants, and coordinators were really bad hires and we paid for it. I think if we had this staff 2 years ago then we would be in better shape now but we didn’t.
5. Mismanagement of recruiting numbers. Some of the best players, often NFL players, for App have come from finding them late in process like Noel, Quick, Lynch, and many others. I think our staff is filling up the class a little too early by not holding enough spots. I also think he needs to be more aggressive in taking more commits and letting the numbers work themselves out. Players are getting paid so if by year 3 they clearly belong in FCS or D2 then have that discussion.
With that said, I wasn’t sure if Clark was ready when he took over and his first couple years kind of validated it but I am patient because I want him to succeed and believe he finally made right changes prior to this year.
I remember in off-season he was given everything he wanted and we basically were told we likely won’t win 11 games but we should be better than we were last year. Our big money boosters backed off and he got this year. Coastal was a huge blow because I figured we would be 8-4 this year and he would return in 2024 but now that makes me think 7-5 and puts him on the edge. If we lose one or both of the next two games I think Shawn will be bought out unless he wins the last 4 games.
If you are watching JMU you see that will be hard to beat them. Those who want him gone now are seeing JMU come from FCS and do what we did even faster and that has them on edge as well. Remember as well that people are seeing this in a much tougher SBC while people argue that Shawn took over at a time when the SBC is way tougher than it was for Scott. Shawn is not done yet but it won’t be easy.
Refute this nonsense:
1. Progress toward degree credit hours don't always transfer in to the Higher academic App State, Clark had an Eastern Illinois transfer 3 years ago, kid had 74 hours, App State admissions was only going to allow 36; as a Head Coach your hands are tied.
2. And if he threw with a 17 point lead like Colorado did 2nd half last night vs Stanford you would be on here whining and beeotching about him being too aggressive.
3. you didn't have a #3....
4. He had Drinks recruits that didn't fit him or left once Drink left, plus he had COVID kids that wanted to stay an extra year, so there was a limited number of freshman he could actually sign AND what freshman in their right mind would want to come sit the bench behind a log jam of upperclassmen... you don't know roster management.
5.OMG, APP State can't afford anyone, average Assistant salary is 125k in FBS. Get a clue, he had 3 OC's go to P5's.
"He got his year". after winning 9 / 10 and going 6-6, he got his year... You and those Big money boosters are like Al Davis or The old Yankees manager George Steinbrenner never will keep or get a good coach.
The JMU coach has a much bigger budget and had 9 more years of Head Coaching experience than #TeamClark. They ain't chopped liver, go check out that stadium.
1. I actually meant to include that issue. If you know the school is going to turn down credit hours then you have to adjust and tilt more towards high school players. I think the fact the school did it at all is stupid but we have some people who don't use common sense or really care if we win so they do things like that. I do think we have shut down recruiting so to speak a little earlier than we should have. One of the best in his class, Kanye Roberts, was a player we slow played because he was a sleeper and were scared to get attention on him. Every year there are studs who are late bloomers or go unknown until they show up at an all-star game and it would be good to have a couple spots open for those players. We have had players like Quick, Lynch, Jason Hunter, and many others who were 1-year players or were not found until an all-star game. I would like to see us target 2-3 players like that every year to prevent them from falling to a FCS or even another team in our league.
2. No I would not cry about it. If the ground game is not picking up big yards then you have to open it up and throw quick slants, etc to soften up the run defense. He starts to drain the clock and just play not to lose way too early sometimes. I don't want us to be stupid but be a little more aggressive/creative.
3. Corrected that.
4. I get that about Drink but just because they want to stay does not mean you have to keep them. Shawn should have been going after the max high school signings and limiting how many super seniors he keeps. I heard people saying maybe some of these super seniors were more focused on themselves than the team and had been warn down as an excuse. I heard people say well they had way more film and had some of our super seniors extra scouted so my rebuttal was to limit how many you bring back. If you got 3 RBs or 4 LBs who can return for extra year then you can't keep them all. Those who have a degree should be asked to walk-on or transfer. You can't keep them all.
Also, think about this. With so many schools keeping all these super seniors do you not think that perhaps there are more P5 caliber players that are out there who would fall to us? I sure think so. In fact, I know so because I have seen some players fall to the FCS level and after 1-2 years they hit the portal and are now in FBS. There are some we could have had. In fact I can tell you right now Western Carolina has 3-4, Lenoir-Rhyne has a DT, and I could keep naming more players that perhaps we should have gone after.
5. App pays like crap so why would anyone good want to stay here? You don't have to equal the money but you have to pay more. We have a couple options. People like Shawn making 1M could take a paycut of like 200k or so to spread around and keep people or play moneyball so to speak. There are former NFL scouts we could get but would need to pay them 100-150k to help with recruiting and we just don't do it so find people outside the box, go to the D2 and FCS level, etc.
I am not like the big money boosters because I am not saying I want him gone now. I am just pointing out actual things that Shawn could have probably done a little better that would have helped. I can tell you this though from talking to a couple of those boosters. Had he beat ULL, gone 8-4 in 2022, and not gotten embarrassed by WKU they would be a lot more forgiving. A lot of them think Shawn just can't get it done and they rather move on now than risk giving him time and he keep coming up short. I knew coming in he might go 7-5 or 8-4 but I did not see 5-7 or 6-6 happening and there is a real chance of that now with the loss to CCU. If we lose to ODU or Southern Miss then we could end up 4-8, which is a big step back from last year.
You bring up JMU and how they aren't chopped liver and I know that. They were FBS ready a decade earlier but I keep hearing how we can't expect to go undefeated or compete because the league is a lot tougher but JMU literally is in transition from FCS still and they are outplaying us. Many of their top players were not even offered by us. We have missed a lot in recruiting and had some bad hires in S&C and assistants that have cost us. That is just simple fact.
I watched JMU today and we have to be a completely different team if we don't want to lose that game by 30+. One thing that has bothered me is that we play up and down to competition. We take a top 15-20 team to overtime and then struggle with a bad FCS team for 3 quarters, have the breakdown against Wyoming late, struggle badly on defense against ULM, etc. We are very inconsistent and good football teams are more consistent.
I don't want to see us become a revolving door but this team is going to have to show real improvement, get a big win, and not lose to teams we are favored to beat the rest of this year or else they will make a change. You seem to want to attack me but I am just telling it how they see it. If you or any of us don't like how the big money boosters are doing things we have two productive options. 1. Shut up because it is their money and they can spend it how they want. 2. Donate more money to override them so Gillin can tell them to kick rocks because he does not have to listen to them for their money. I don't have the money to do that so I am not going to pick a fight with them.
