G5 Playoff

[3rd]

No thank you. I do not care to return to an FCS/JV kind of scenario.

How is a playoff against top G5 schools anymore JV than playing a MAC team in the Camellia Bowl?

The G5 didn't fight and create the gap it was handed to them unlike begging to be against only the MAC/CUSA. That's a major difference.

[Yosef84]

No thank you. I do not care to return to an FCS/JV kind of scenario.

How is a playoff against top G5 schools anymore JV than playing a MAC team in the Camellia Bowl?

Just my opinion but this just feels like fabricating a new division for the soul purpose of crowning a "national champion." That logic made some sense back in the 70's when it was originally done. The intent was good but it didn't play out as planned financially for anybody. I still think the FCS is a meaningful sub-division and I loved our championships there. I just think to repeat the process dilutes and devalues any championship created. The Bowl games don't pretend to be more than a bowl game. We have played in two so far and both were against worthy peer institutions, but nobody is pretending it is more than a bowl game....even if they want to use the word "champion" in there.

[8993]

If this G5 Playoff was to be voted on today, I would gladly vote against it.

Could it boost overall revenue? Yeah, it could. Could it give teams more exposure? Of course. Would it be viewed more than some of the mid-tier bowls that App and the G5 compete for? Possibly. Would it relegate the G5 conferences and schools to a place that is in between FCS and FBS? Without a doubt.

By creating our own playoff system, we are admitting that we are not equally important or equally entertaining as some of these P5 schools or conferences. The following P5 schools were all ranked beneath Appalachian as of this morning: Kansas, Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Arizona, Syracuse, Iowa State, Michigan State, Missouri, Duke, Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona State, UCLA, Notre Dame, Texas Tech, South Carolina, California, Texas, Boston College, Wake Forest, Mississippi State, Maryland, Baylor, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Northwestern, Kentucky, NC State, Georgia, TCU, Kansas State, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Minnesota, UNC, and Tennessee. App is currently ranked 33rd in the nation, according to CBS's College Football Rankings.

Then you have these teams ranked above App: No. 30, Iowa Hawkeyes at 8-4, including a loss to NDSU; No. 25, Washington State Cougars at 8-5, including a loss to an FCS Eastern Washington team and bowl loss to Minnesota; No. 20, Virginia Tech Hokies at 9-4, having barely pulled out wins against Pitt, Duke, and Notre Dame, while still getting stomped by Clemson; No. 13, West Virginia Mountaineers at 10-3, having beaten Baylor and Texas by only 3 points a piece and then getting demolished by Miami. Am I saying that App should have been ranked higher up? Yeah, I think we should be right now. Do I think we're a dominant top 25 team that could keep up with the likes of Alabama or Ohio State? Not right now, but we're taking steps in the right direction.

Do I think that P5 teams will always be favored, even when some G5 teams have better SOS and overall records? Of course they will be. That's what needs to be fixed here, not whether or not the G5 has a playoff of their own. Rather than stacking everything with P5 representatives and giving the G5 a few of the remaining seats, there should be equal representation for both halves. That won't happen, though, as the P5 thinks it is entitled to whatever they please. Rather than laying down and accepting our place at the kids table, we should continue to challenge and push our way to the grown up's table. Accepting a G5 playoff is accepting that we aren't good enough for the P5 or CFP. We are. So many G5 teams could compete. Until we fight for that chance, though, we won't get it. Giving up will mean death for the G5 as we know it.

[HeffnerIV]

I don't like the idea of a G5 playoff at all. As others have already stated (or implied), this would be the beginning of a new subdivision. It is exactly the mentality that created I-AA back in the late 70's. The assumption that this would close the gap in terms of revenue is a HUGE assumption and I think it is highly doubtful. As soon as we call it a "championship" we are acknowledging that we are a separate division (not just a designation within a division) and nobody outside of G5 will pay a bit of attention. Once we are viewed as a separate division, I can see the P5 imposing more and more distinctions in order to widen the advantage: Reduced scholarships, Staff limits....all those same differences that FCS has now. We might as well move back to FCS and be done with it.

I loved the playoffs when we were there but I would much rather have one or two slots available (down the road) in an 8 or 12 team FBS playoff. Yes, an early match up with Bama would probably be lopsided but that is true for most P5 teams as well. I'm sure the Pioneer league feels that way about the FCS playoffs. Maybe they should have an FCS Limited Scholarship Championship Playoff.

FBS teams who can't compete with Bama already have a meaningful championship to play for. It's called a Conference Championship! How bout if the G5 just does some work on the existing Bowl alignments to get more meaningful matchups in bowls so that Champions are playing against Champions. That would be a good accomplishment and would probably raise the interest in G5 Bowls.

Your last graph is actually a great idea!

[Yosef10]

Much different that FCS. They get peanuts compared to our revenues. FWIW I follow a sports economist on Twitter and he was talking about this scenario and actually wrote about it 4 years ago. He sees this as a way to somewhat close the revenue gap between G5 and P5. I don't know anyone on this board who wouldn't be happy with that. But it makes sense, id bet a playoff game will get a lot more eyeballs than the Dollar General bowl. And teams would get the money not the bowl sponsors.

You and he assume we would get the same/more money in a playoff, you must not remember much with what happened in the 70s. ESPN is losing money badly right now the money pot that was causing all of the massive TV deals is simply not there. 10 years ago every talking head said there will be no way they give up the money of BCS for a playoff look what happened. They will go to 8 it only takes a big SEC school to get left out.

ESPN may be losing subscribers but they are making PLENTY of profit year over year and revenues rose last quarter. ESPN is fine. And it's not just ESPN who would be interested in the broadcasts, CBS and NBC have shown interest. Also, if this were to happen, anyway you slice it we would gain more $ in this playoff scenario. We are lucky if we make 1 dollar playing in bowl game, most schools take a loss playing in bowls.

We wouldn't gain more money I don't understand how you can't see this just as what happened in the 70s. The divisions split teams could still be "D-1" and they would have there own champion, we lost money/broke even on every home playoff game. This past season ESPN picked up 3 sunbelt regular season games that didn't really matter instead of picking up FCS playoffs. That's the facts the G5 doing this will cause this to happen all over again.

We would gain money. Networks would pay for rights to the playoff which the conference's would split 5 ways and then equally among the teams in conference. And as I said, it's not just ESPN who has interest in these rights. i see what you're saying about the D1 split in 1970s but it's not really a comparison. Things would remain exactly as they are except instead of just bowl games there would be a 4/8 team playoff to go along with it.

I get the resistance of essentially relegating ourselves to a lower level, but unfortunately it's really already happened. Might as well take some more money and meaningful games.

[WVAPPeer]

How do we the explain P5 - G5?
It we weren't already considered a "lower level" why are there 2 group names?

[AppfaninCAALand]

I don't like the G5 playoff idea, but I do like an alternative idea to have other four G5 Champs after the access slot play each other in two higher profile bowls.

[Yosef10]

Folks are just playing semantics at this point. Don't necessarily blame them I guess. The P5>G5>FCS. This whole "standing up to the P5" just ain't gonna work fellas. We are a different level regardless if you wanna acknowledge it or not, might as well add some meaning to the G5 post season instead of only for the one team of 64ish plucked by the committee.

[bigCasu]

Lets forget about the money for a minute. As soon as divide occurs and there are separate playoffs, the P5 will stop scheduling the G5. We moved up to get those guys to play in Boone. That will go away quickly, and we'll be right back where we were before we even get started. Luckily this playoff contracts runs for awhile and nothing will change too soon. An 8 team playoff, IMO, is more likely, and the rest of us will hope we get a seat or two at the table.

[8993]

I'd vote for an 8-team CFP where 2 spots go to G5 teams before I'd ever vote for a G5 playoff.

[Yosef10]

A pig will fly before the P5 gives the G5 gives 2 seats at an 8 seat table.

[WVAPPeer]

I wouldn't have a problem with no G5 playoff if - as mentioned - our top teams got placed in real "top tier" bowls - Western Michigan is of course but that's it ---
App wins the SB and plays in the Camellia (I really liked everything about that) - but what about playing VT in the Belk? - does anyone care about 7-5 Arkansas???
Temple wins the American and gets 6-6 WF in the Military - Sure WF beat them but if you are Temple and you go thru probably the toughest G5 and then beat a good Navy team to win the conference and you get matched with 6-6 WF in Annapolis??? - how can you get excited about that?
Western KY wins the CUSA and gets Memphis in Boca Bowl

And as mentioned, going forward aren't there a couple of conferences requiring a certain number of OOC be against other P5s?

And it will take more than a pig flying to get 2 of 8 bids !!!

[AppGrad78]

P5s are always going to need G5s to pad out their out-of-conference schedules. Otherwise, P5s would have branched off long ago.

[JTApps1]

Lets be honest and realize the AD's behind this are not worried about crowning a so called National Champion. They are worried about the bottom line which for many schools is getting very hard to manage. Television may step up and pay us a little more than what we get from the CFP now, but there is no guarantee it will stay that way long term. Once a division like this is officially in place it will be near impossible to remove it. A lot of things were promised when I-AA was created to help sell schools on the idea of moving into a separate divisions, but as we all know many of those promises were never fulfilled. At first TV coverage was very good for the time, but that slowly went away and now only the Semi-Finals and Finals are even televised. TV for regular season games is almost non-existent. Do we really want to open the door to this happening again?

We all know that Alabama is on a level we can't reach in many ways, but that doesn't mean we need to give up and voluntarily set ourselves back even further. Since budgets are the real reason this is being talked about maybe we should focus on fixing these idiotic conferences that have our teams traveling all over the US. There is absolutely no reason to have 3 of the G5 conferences represented in the same state like we currently see in NC, TX, and LA. Get regional conferences that will lower expenses as well as create more fan interest which will raise revenue. The P5 schools are now paying more than ever to host G5 teams, or as we saw last year are more willing to travel to G5 schools if they don't have deep enough pockets. As bigC said that would all change as well. If all of this is done and some G5 schools still aren't happy then they can drop back down to FCS and play for the second level NC. I doubt any of our players would give up the Camellia Bowl win and hosting Miami to go back to FCS.

[huskie3]

I am in the -ell on camp!

[WVAPPeer]

JT - I do believe you are correct - for you or someone else on here that would care to share --- Do the G5s have any clout or enough clout to get our conference champions in more prestigious bowl match-ups (as I explored a couple of posts earlier)?

[The Rock]

I don't like the idea of a G5 playoff at all. As others have already stated (or implied), this would be the beginning of a new subdivision. It is exactly the mentality that created I-AA back in the late 70's. The assumption that this would close the gap in terms of revenue is a HUGE assumption and I think it is highly doubtful. As soon as we call it a "championship" we are acknowledging that we are a separate division (not just a designation within a division) and nobody outside of G5 will pay a bit of attention. Once we are viewed as a separate division, I can see the P5 imposing more and more distinctions in order to widen the advantage: Reduced scholarships, Staff limits....all those same differences that FCS has now. We might as well move back to FCS and be done with it.

I loved the playoffs when we were there but I would much rather have one or two slots available (down the road) in an 8 or 12 team FBS playoff. Yes, an early match up with Bama would probably be lopsided but that is true for most P5 teams as well. I'm sure the Pioneer league feels that way about the FCS playoffs. Maybe they should have an FCS Limited Scholarship Championship Playoff.

FBS teams who can't compete with Bama already have a meaningful championship to play for. It's called a Conference Championship! How bout if the G5 just does some work on the existing Bowl alignments to get more meaningful matchups in bowls so that Champions are playing against Champions. That would be a good accomplishment and would probably raise the interest in G5 Bowls.

I think we are kidding ourselves if we think the G5 isn't already another subdivision. G5 confrences will never get the same amount of coverage, money, or respect as a P5 conference.
A G5 team will never make the 4 team playoff, and probably not even if the playoff is expanded.
To me, a G5 playoff is the best way for a team to show what kind of talent they have AS A TEAM, and overcome the stigma (good or bad) from the conference they belong to. Many people assume we are not a super tough team because we only play in the weak Sunbelt, whereas other teams strut about and hypothetically say they would beat another team because they are from the AAC.
The playoff makes sense because it doesn't matter what teams have tie-ins with certain conferences and certain bowls, it allows quality teams to showcase their talents against other quality teams based on winning against other quality teams, rather than 2 teams play each other because the bowl closest to their home base chooses them, and that particular bowl has a tie in with a certain conference, who sends a team because they happend to beat an FCS team for their 6th win of the season.

[Black Saturday]

How do we the explain P5 - G5?
It we weren't already considered a "lower level" why are there 2 group names?

I'm all for have A CHANCE to play for a national championship again. The current system allows G5 less than a chance of a snowball in hell. G5 is not part of the money cartel with the networks and will not ever be part of that country club. It will never happen.

Bring on the G5 playoff and play within our means!

[Yosef84]

I don't like the idea of a G5 playoff at all. As others have already stated (or implied), this would be the beginning of a new subdivision. It is exactly the mentality that created I-AA back in the late 70's. The assumption that this would close the gap in terms of revenue is a HUGE assumption and I think it is highly doubtful. As soon as we call it a "championship" we are acknowledging that we are a separate division (not just a designation within a division) and nobody outside of G5 will pay a bit of attention. Once we are viewed as a separate division, I can see the P5 imposing more and more distinctions in order to widen the advantage: Reduced scholarships, Staff limits....all those same differences that FCS has now. We might as well move back to FCS and be done with it.

I loved the playoffs when we were there but I would much rather have one or two slots available (down the road) in an 8 or 12 team FBS playoff. Yes, an early match up with Bama would probably be lopsided but that is true for most P5 teams as well. I'm sure the Pioneer league feels that way about the FCS playoffs. Maybe they should have an FCS Limited Scholarship Championship Playoff.

FBS teams who can't compete with Bama already have a meaningful championship to play for. It's called a Conference Championship! How bout if the G5 just does some work on the existing Bowl alignments to get more meaningful matchups in bowls so that Champions are playing against Champions. That would be a good accomplishment and would probably raise the interest in G5 Bowls.

I think we are kidding ourselves if we think the G5 isn't already another subdivision. G5 confrences will never get the same amount of coverage, money, or respect as a P5 conference.
A G5 team will never make the 4 team playoff, and probably not even if the playoff is expanded.
To me, a G5 playoff is the best way for a team to show what kind of talent they have AS A TEAM, and overcome the stigma (good or bad) from the conference they belong to. Many people assume we are not a super tough team because we only play in the weak Sunbelt, whereas other teams strut about and hypothetically say they would beat another team because they are from the AAC.
The playoff makes sense because it doesn't matter what teams have tie-ins with certain conferences and certain bowls, it allows quality teams to showcase their talents against other quality teams based on winning against other quality teams, rather than 2 teams play each other because the bowl closest to their home base chooses them, and that particular bowl has a tie in with a certain conference, who sends a team because they happend to beat an FCS team for their 6th win of the season.

I understand what you're saying, I simply don't agree. The idea of a championship has an appeal but drawing this line is where the separation is no longer academic. It is real, and I don't believe it would stop with the playoffs. We might even get a short term lift in revenue (although I doubt it) but anyone who believes that the "G5 National Championship would interest anyone outside the G5 is the person kidding him/herself. Once this line is drawn, we begin a brand new process of diluting our own product. Our value for "money" games will likely drop as there will no longer be any illusion about it being a game against a team from the same division.

We all know that there is a line between the P5 and the G5. That line is created by the budgets these programs have to spend. For now, that line is soft and can be crossed on occasion (Boise State and Houston for example). I understand these teams didn't compete for the national championship but they have entered the national conversation and get respect (even Boise get respect this year when they are clearly having a "down" period). If you make that line hard, you are creating your own ceiling. I prefer competing in our conference and bowls and knowing the long shot is available to living under that self imposed ceiling....AGAIN. Been there and done that.

It's just my opinion and nobody is obliged to agree. I don't think this would play out the way they project it....at least not for long.

[hapapp]

P5s are always going to need G5s to pad out their out-of-conference schedules. Otherwise, P5s would have branched off long ago.

Don't think he said that. He was referencing P5s playing at G5s.