How do teams like us afford?

[The Rock]

I remember seeing an article a couple of years ago about all the costs involved for schools to go to bowl games. First you have the travel meals and lodging for team, staff, usually the team does activities and visits around the location.
Then the school has to purchase the ticket allotment. So if the stadium holds 50,000 people, each school would have to purchase 25,000 tickets for sale. This is where most money is lost, because very rarely does a fan base have the ability to travel to purchase all the tickets.
Then your coaches have incentives and bonuses for getting to bowl games, and even more for winning the games.
I believe the article stated when Alabama or Florida (can't remember which it was) won the national championship, by the time they ate their ticket allotment, paid expenses and paid out bonuses, the made like 10 or 15 grand, after the payout.
So only the winner of the biggest bowl game barely breaks even, all others lose big time money in bowl games.

[clayton]

I think the answer to the original question is the same answer to "How do teams like us afford football?"

We subsidize it because we believe the tangible and intangible benefits are worth it.

If a bowl payout doesn't cover our expenses, the deficit will be covered by other revenue (tickets, student fees, etc).

The Sun Belt is tied to bowls in Louisiana and Alabama. So, hopefully that means any financial loss would not be significant.

I think the bowl system is a dumb way to end a season and I don't think it makes a lot of financial sense for anybody.

Bowls should be moved to the beginning of the season. Then, you have 8 months to sell tickets instead of 3 weeks. Fans can plan their big trips around Labor Day weekend.

Go with an 8-team playoff (that could include a strong G5 team). Play the quarterfinals and semifinals on campus and the championship on a neutral field. The ratings would blow the BCS out of the water and TV money is a much bigger deal than ticket sales.

You could also do a G5 playoff. I think we get more exposure competing there than in a minor bowl.

[AppSt94]

We lost money most years in the playoffs as well including some of the NC years. While the actual game may cost you money the success that comes with it pays off latter.

You may be right, but I doubt we lost north of 300K in any one given year. Part of our losses were in taking additional members of the entourage. Am I wrong?

I would agree that how many people you take on the school's dime may affect some of that money. Has to your question in your previous post about why the fascination of bowling. The exposure is worth it and bowl games and more importantly, winning them helps the reputation when it comes to polls and getting that G5 New Years Day bowl.

Possibly true, but I doubt proportionately it would be valid, but then again, I haven't followed bowls since the days when there were only the Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Liberty Bowl and a couple others. Certainly no spark plug bowls and dotcom bowls. . To each his own.

I certainly agree with you in that there are too many bowls with less than exciting matchups. I would like to see these bowls go back to the days of getting good matchups. But even the bad bowls get better ratings and more exposure for teams and schools. I don't know the about the proportionately of the exposure but it seems that NASCAR has a formula that it uses to show sponsors the value of being on any given car during a race. I agree that I liked the playoffs and a possible championship being settled on the field. However, we haven't been relevant in the hunt for some years now. I was out shopping with the family last Friday evening and I was wearing my App shirt. The salesman took a look at the shirt and mentioned our big win at Michigan. I have never had anyone comment on my shirts with you guys won 3 National Championships in a row. People who like football like the big boys. All other brands of college football are for the alumni.

[bigdaddyg]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

[WVAPPeer]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

[bigdaddyg]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

Very good point! Family has taken some cruises recently and I know it takes a few weeks and about $150 a pop to get a passport. Guess the school can pay to expedite. How would you like to eat that cost, especially knowing that most of the kids would never use the passport again before it expires? Seriously though, a bowl game in the Bahamas? I watched some college BB games last week and the court was set up in a ballroom of a hotel and it appeared to me that the seating might have accomodated a few hundred people.

[moehler]

you guys are forgetting something really important, most schools, especially the Alabamas of the world, are willing to take a hit on bowls because they more than make up for any loses by donations from the big boosters. The main source of revenue for the schools, which you rarely hear about, is donations from boosters, for a school like Bama, its in the 10s of millions each year. All these boosters ask is Bama or Florida State, make it to the big bowls, and show them a good time that week. Alabama has no problem spending 10 million during bowl week, if it will net them 20 million from happy boosters. As far as mid majors, such as App, its much tougher, we don't have too many boosters willing to give millions to the school on a regular basis, we have to scrap and beg just to break even. I remember UConn went to the Fiesta Bowl, 4 or 5 years ago, their fans only bought something like 3000 tickets, I believe they end up with a loss of well over 3 million dollars. I guess the bottom line is your willing to take short term hits in the hope of building a fan base that will make bigger and bigger contributions in the long term.

[AppGrad78]

Isn't the Sun Belt in the rotation for a future bowl game in the Bahamas?

[bigdaddyg]

you guys are forgetting something really important, most schools, especially the Alabamas of the world, are willing to take a hit on bowls because they more than make up for any loses by donations from the big boosters. The main source of revenue for the schools, which you rarely hear about, is donations from boosters, for a school like Bama, its in the 10s of millions each year. All these boosters ask is Bama or Florida State, make it to the big bowls, and show them a good time that week. Alabama has no problem spending 10 million during bowl week, if it will net them 20 million from happy boosters. As far as mid majors, such as App, its much tougher, we don't have too many boosters willing to give millions to the school on a regular basis, we have to scrap and beg just to break even. I remember UConn went to the Fiesta Bowl, 4 or 5 years ago, their fans only bought something like 3000 tickets, I believe they end up with a loss of well over 3 million dollars. I guess the bottom line is your willing to take short term hits in the hope of building a fan base that will make bigger and bigger contributions in the long term.

I never mentioned anything (I think) about the Alabama's of the world. They are in a different stratosphere where money is no object. Just win baby.

[bcoach]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

Very good point! Family has taken some cruises recently and I know it takes a few weeks and about $150 a pop to get a passport. Guess the school can pay to expedite. How would you like to eat that cost, especially knowing that most of the kids would never use the passport again before it expires? Seriously though, a bowl game in the Bahamas? I watched some college BB games last week and the court was set up in a ballroom of a hotel and it appeared to me that the seating might have accomodated a few hundred people.

Great question? Can the school pay for a kids passport? Would the NCAA allow it? As far as the BB games yes the seating was pretty limited ( I have been in that ballroom ) but even at that it was still empty from what I could see on TV.

[AppSt94]

I think there should be a playoff but not of the 4 or 8 team variety. I would do a 24 team playoff. I woulld have 8 teams getting a first week bye and the 16 remaining seeds playing the first week. The 8 seeds that get byes are made up of the 5 P5 conference champs and 3 highest rankings teams between the G5 champs and the 4 independents. Any G5 champ that doesn't get a bye gets a home game in the first 16. All games are played at the site of the higher seed until the championship. The NCAA pays all team related travel and stadium operations cost and keeps the rest. Bowl games can still exist to reward teams for good seasons and bowls can be filled by teams that either didn't make the playoffs or lost in week one. It's not perfect but I think it would work better than what we have and had.

[bigdaddyg]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

Very good point! Family has taken some cruises recently and I know it takes a few weeks and about $150 a pop to get a passport. Guess the school can pay to expedite. How would you like to eat that cost, especially knowing that most of the kids would never use the passport again before it expires? Seriously though, a bowl game in the Bahamas? I watched some college BB games last week and the court was set up in a ballroom of a hotel and it appeared to me that the seating might have accomodated a few hundred people.

Great question? Can the school pay for a kids passport? Would the NCAA allow it? As far as the BB games yes the seating was pretty limited ( I have been in that ballroom ) but even at that it was still empty from what I could see on TV.

Just read that the Popeye's Bahamas Bowl is to be played in a multi-purpose 15,000 seat complex- complete with track around it. Participating schools are going to take a bath on this one. I guess, like most bowls participating schools will send teams (and bands?) to this tiny venue? Flights and hotels will be very expensive. Aren't players given some form of a stipend on bowl trips? The game is played on Christmas Eve to make matters worse. Might be the best overall location to go but might be the worst for cost.

[Yosef10]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

You don't need a passport to go to the Bahamas, only a birth certificate and possibly your SS card

[JTApps1]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

Very good point! Family has taken some cruises recently and I know it takes a few weeks and about $150 a pop to get a passport. Guess the school can pay to expedite. How would you like to eat that cost, especially knowing that most of the kids would never use the passport again before it expires? Seriously though, a bowl game in the Bahamas? I watched some college BB games last week and the court was set up in a ballroom of a hotel and it appeared to me that the seating might have accomodated a few hundred people.

Great question? Can the school pay for a kids passport? Would the NCAA allow it? As far as the BB games yes the seating was pretty limited ( I have been in that ballroom ) but even at that it was still empty from what I could see on TV.

Just read that the Popeye's Bahamas Bowl is to be played in a multi-purpose 15,000 seat complex- complete with track around it. Participating schools are going to take a bath on this one. I guess, like most bowls participating schools will send teams (and bands?) to this tiny venue? Flights and hotels will be very expensive. Aren't players given some form of a stipend on bowl trips? The game is played on Christmas Eve to make matters worse. Might be the best overall location to go but might be the worst for cost.

Well there won't be a huge allotment of tickets required for each team at least!

[WVAPPeer]

I know the last time I was there about 13 years ago (prior to 9-11) a passport was not needed - but I think it is now a requirement ---

"All U.S. citizens are required to present a valid U.S. passport in order to enter The Bahamas, as well as to enter or re-enter the United States when traveling by air. U.S. citizens do not need visas for short trips to The Bahamas for tourist/business purposes, however, Bahamian regulations require that air passengers entering for tourism have a round trip ticket. Travelers should be prepared to show return/onward travel arrangements to immigration authorities if requested. Passengers arriving with one way tickets could be denied entry."

[Yosef10]

I know the last time I was there about 13 years ago (prior to 9-11) a passport was not needed - but I think it is now a requirement ---

"All U.S. citizens are required to present a valid U.S. passport in order to enter The Bahamas, as well as to enter or re-enter the United States when traveling by air. U.S. citizens do not need visas for short trips to The Bahamas for tourist/business purposes, however, Bahamian regulations require that air passengers entering for tourism have a round trip ticket. Travelers should be prepared to show return/onward travel arrangements to immigration authorities if requested. Passengers arriving with one way tickets could be denied entry."

I was there last March, no passport required

[bcoach]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

You don't need a passport to go to the Bahamas, only a birth certificate and possibly your SS card

Actually you do need a passport if you travel by air.

[Niner National]

It is a well-known fact that most teams lose money in bowl games across-the-board. Especially when you get into the non power conferences

Even in the big bowl games you often lose money. UCF made a BCS bowl last year and lost $2.5 million.

[Yosef10]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

You don't need a passport to go to the Bahamas, only a birth certificate and possibly your SS card

Actually you do need a passport if you travelAnd we had the greatest fcs player ever by air.

Stand corrected, learn something new every day

[bcoach]

In my mind the only teams that reap any real benefit from the current bowl format are the bottom feeders in the major conferences. A Wake or a Vanderbilt is better off financially to NOT go to a bowl, especially if an FSU or an Alabama can reach the championship. The big money from the big games goes back to the conference and is shared. A Wake for example would undoubtably lose money at most of the small bowls- when you factor in transportation costs for the team, band, family and friends. Fortunately the ACC probably defrays most of the cost. Some argue that the benefits of playing in a bowl outweigh the costs. How has Wake done since their Orange Bowl appearance? Northern Illinois is projected to possibly play in the Bahamas Bowl this year. While the players will love it the school will take a bath on the ticket piece. How many people will attend a bowl game in the Bahamas? Assuming that 4 Sunbelt teams can possibly qualify for bowls next year, will the conference defray costs for all the teams involved. As much as I love App I can't see a huge contingent of fans flocking to many venues outside of Northern Florida, NC or maybe Alabama or Tennessee. The tie-in system is just ridiculous.

And how would they be able to get passports for all players who didn't currently hold one??? ---

You don't need a passport to go to the Bahamas, only a birth certificate and possibly your SS card

Actually you do need a passport if you travelAnd we had the greatest fcs player ever by air.

Stand corrected, learn something new every day

Wow that is strange. ( travelAnd we had the greatest fcs player ever by air) I did not put that part in my post