FS Knoxville P & P for App Game

[ashugh]

I thought it was a decent, albeit short, write up and a pretty accurate prediction. One team picked to win the SEC East and one team from the Sun Belt playing the opening game of the year on a Thursday night in front of 102,000 on national TV. We will, once again, be getting a very good team's best shot. All things considered, it could be a lot worse.

[AtlantaMountaineer]

Tyler Lamb????? You would think they could at least get our QBs name correct.

The writer must have corrected it because I just read the article and it was spelled Taylor.

Yes. He corrected the error. Props to the writer for the correction.

[AtlAppMan]

I honestly cannot knock anybody projecting App for a 21+ point loss to a top 15 P5 team on their home field at this point with our history. I don't like it but until we prove otherwise, we are still tied at the hip to our past performances. Nobody cares about anything else (FBS vs FCS, different coaches, different era, different level of players, etc.). None of that matters until we prove that we can "consistently" play head to head with upper P5 level teams. Our current coaches and players have to deliver in order to change peoples opinions about our program. To date, we have ONE upset against a good FBS team.

[AtlAppMan]

Here is our impressive past against FBS since 2000. This does not exactly strike fear in the hearts of any of our upper FBS opponents.
Year - W/L - Team - Score - Their final record that year -
2000 - W - Wake - (20-16) - (2-9)
2001 - L - Wake - (10-20) - (6-5)
2002 - L - Marshall - (17-50) - (11-2)
2003 - L - Hawaii - (17-40) - (9-5)
2004 - L - Wyoming - (7-53) - (7-5)
2005 - L - Kansas - (8-36) - (7-5)
2005 - L - LSU - (0-24) - (11-2)
2006 - L - NCSU - (10-23) - (3-9)
2007 - W - Michigan - (34-32) - (9-4)
2008 - L - LSU - (13-41) - (8-5)
2009 - L - ECU - (24-29) - (10-4)
2010 - L - Florida - (10-48) - (8-5)
2011 - L - Va Tech - (13-66) - (11-3)
2012 - L - ECU - (13-35) - (8-5)
2013 - L - UGA - (6-45) - (8-5)
2014 - L - Michigan - (14-52) - (5-7)
2015 - L - Clemson - (10-41) - (14-1)

Once I went back and really looked at all of these scores in one list I realized how very unimpressive we have been. Yes, some of these are against decent FBS teams but the glaring takeaway is that, with exception of Michigan upset, there were only a few games that we were even competitive. Other than Wake and single ECU game, we got blown out in every game regardless of level of competition.

Ouch! This hurt my feelings and ego.

[appmaj]

Here is our impressive past against FBS since 2000. This does not exactly strike fear in the hearts of any of our upper FBS opponents.
Year - W/L - Team - Score - Their final record that year -
2000 - W - Wake - (20-16) - (2-9)
2001 - L - Wake - (10-20) - (6-5)
2002 - L - Marshall - (17-50) - (11-2)
2003 - L - Hawaii - (17-40) - (9-5)
2004 - L - Wyoming - (7-53) - (7-5)
2005 - L - Kansas - (8-36) - (7-5)
2005 - L - LSU - (0-24) - (11-2)
2006 - L - NCSU - (10-23) - (3-9)
2007 - W - Michigan - (34-32) - (9-4)
2008 - L - LSU - (13-41) - (8-5)
2009 - L - ECU - (24-29) - (10-4)
2010 - L - Florida - (10-48) - (8-5)
2011 - L - Va Tech - (13-66) - (11-3)
2012 - L - ECU - (13-35) - (8-5)
2013 - L - UGA - (6-45) - (8-5)
2014 - L - Michigan - (14-52) - (5-7)
2015 - L - Clemson - (10-41) - (14-1)

Once I went back and really looked at all of these scores in one list I realized how very unimpressive we have been. Yes, some of these are against decent FBS teams but the glaring takeaway is that, with exception of Michigan upset, there were only a few games that we were even competitive. Other than Wake and single ECU game, we got blown out in every game regardless of level of competition.

Ouch! This hurt my feelings and ego.

The NC State & VT ones really hurt

[EastHallApp]

It's the one area where I think Southern is legitimately ahead of us right now - competing with P5 teams. Some of that may be their style of play, but still...

Definitely hoping to see us give at least one of UT and Miami all they can handle, though I expect it will be the latter.

[TheMoody1]

Lots of memories thinking back about these games. I was at eight of them and was lucky enough to be at the two wins.

[AppGrad78]

Here is our impressive past against FBS since 2000. This does not exactly strike fear in the hearts of any of our upper FBS opponents.
Year - W/L - Team - Score - Their final record that year -
2000 - W - Wake - (20-16) - (2-9)
2001 - L - Wake - (10-20) - (6-5)
2002 - L - Marshall - (17-50) - (11-2)
2003 - L - Hawaii - (17-40) - (9-5)
2004 - L - Wyoming - (7-53) - (7-5)
2005 - L - Kansas - (8-36) - (7-5)
2005 - L - LSU - (0-24) - (11-2)
2006 - L - NCSU - (10-23) - (3-9)
2007 - W - Michigan - (34-32) - (9-4)
2008 - L - LSU - (13-41) - (8-5)
2009 - L - ECU - (24-29) - (10-4)
2010 - L - Florida - (10-48) - (8-5)
2011 - L - Va Tech - (13-66) - (11-3)
2012 - L - ECU - (13-35) - (8-5)
2013 - L - UGA - (6-45) - (8-5)
2014 - L - Michigan - (14-52) - (5-7)
2015 - L - Clemson - (10-41) - (14-1)

Once I went back and really looked at all of these scores in one list I realized how very unimpressive we have been. Yes, some of these are against decent FBS teams but the glaring takeaway is that, with exception of Michigan upset, there were only a few games that we were even competitive. Other than Wake and single ECU game, we got blown out in every game regardless of level of competition.

Ouch! This hurt my feelings and ego.

For accuracy sake...

Year - W/L - Team - Score - Their final record that year -
____________FCS era (63 scholarships)____________
2000 - W - at Wake Forest - (20-16) - (2-9)
2001 - L - at Wake Forest - (10-20) - (6-5)
2002 - L - at Marshall - (17-50) - (11-2)
2003 - L - at Hawaii - (17-40) - (9-5)
2004 - L - at Wyoming - (7-53) - (7-5)
2005 - L - at Kansas - (8-36) - (7-5)
2005 - L - at LSU - (0-24) - (11-2)
2006 - L - at N.C. Sate - (10-23) - (3-9)
2007 - W - at Michigan - (34-32) - (9-4)
2008 - L - at LSU - (13-41) - (8-5)
2009 - L - at East Carolina - (24-29) - (10-4)
2010 - L - at Florida - (10-48) - (8-5)
2011 - L - at Va Tech - (13-66) - (11-3)
2012 - L - at East Carolina - (13-35) - (8-5)
2013 - L - at Georgia - (6-45) - (8-5)
______________FBS era (not yet at 85 scholarships but climbing) ____________________________
2014 - L - at Michigan - (14-52) - (5-7)
2014 - L - at Southern Miss (20-21) - (3-9)
2014 - L - at Georgia Southern (34-13) - (9-3)
2014 - L - South Alabama (21-47) - (6-7)
2014 - W - at Troy (53-14) - (3-9)
2014 - W - Georgia State (44-0) - (1-11)
2014 - W - UL-Monroe (31-29) - (4-8)
2014 - W - at Arkansas State (37-32) - (7-6)
2014 - W - at UL-Lafayette (35-16) - (9-4)
2014 - W - at Idaho (45-28) - (1-10)
2015 - L - at Clemson - (10-41) - (14-1)
2015 - W - at ODU (49-0) - (5-7)
2015 - W - Wyoming (31-13) - (2-10)
2015 - W - at Georgia State (37-3) - (6-7)
2015 - W - at UL-Monroe (59-14) - (2-11)
2015 - W - Georgia Southern (31-13) - (9-4)
2015 - W - Troy (44-41, OT) - (4-8)
2015 - L - Arkansas State (27-40) - (9-4)
2015 - W - at Idaho (47-20) - (4-8)
2015 - W - UL-Lafayette (28-7) - (4-8)
2015 - W - at South Alabama (34-27) - (5-7)
2015 - W - Ohio (neutral site) (31-29) - (8-5)

[bigdaddyg]

I am glad that someone added the somewhat major point that up until last year were always at a decided disadvantage due to about 20 fewer scholarships. With the exception of a few gems here and there over the past 15 years we were also trying to knock heads with the big boys with (let's just admit it) lesser talent overall. Heart and desire was there many years but speed and strength could not be matched. We are now getting better talent and building depth. Those losses definitely hurt but we have to keep things in proper perspective. Let's see how we do going forward with a more apples to apples comparison. If we get our asses handed to us twice this year by UT an the U I think we can be more embarrassed.

[moonshine]

Keep in mind that every single FBS loss, except two, took place on the road. The away games will continue with the upper echelon FBS teams sans the U (historically top tier) but at least App will be able to roll into these big time stadiums without the scholarship discrepancy from this point forward. Of all the L's since 2000, only 4 came against teams with losing records. This isn't to pump sunshine on the losses just to point out that we've played some pretty good teams, with 5 losses coming against teams who recorded double digit wins during that respective season.

[firemoose]

Just a recruiting point in the apples to apples discussion. From a players standpoint we won't be a full, experienced FBS program for another two years. What I'm referring to is that will be the first year where we no longer have any players that were recruited to a still FCS/SoCon program before the official announcement of the move up (most of the last of those are our non transfer/JUCO Sr's this year), or players recruited during the transitional years where, due to having to increase our scholarship numbers, we took some boarderline players in order to hit our marks. It will be two more full classes (incoming 2016 class due here for Summer 2 and the current 2017 class we are recruiting) and two more years before we have completely recruited FBS players with at least one year of game experience. Then we will be a full FBS program. It takes time to get to the level that the non P5 schools on that list were already at.

[JTApps1]

Just a recruiting point in the apples to apples discussion. From a players standpoint we won't be a full, experienced FBS program for another two years. What I'm referring to is that will be the first year where we no longer have any players that were recruited to a still FCS/SoCon program before the official announcement of the move up (most of the last of those are our non transfer/JUCO Sr's this year), or players recruited during the transitional years where, due to having to increase our scholarship numbers, we took some boarderline players in order to hit our marks. It will be two more full classes (incoming 2016 class due here for Summer 2 and the current 2017 class we are recruiting) and two more years before we have completely recruited FBS players with at least one year of game experience. Then we will be a full FBS program. It takes time to get to the level that the non P5 schools on that list were already at.

Good point FM, and to me this shows how impressive our record the first two years in FBS have been. Most of the leaders on those teams were recruited for FCS play.

[bcoach]

But to also be fair we have for a long time recruited to the very top level of FCS. That is not that far off of the level of the SB. Proof of that close proximity is what GS and APP have done in our first two years. That is not at all meant as a knock on the SB it is just reality.

[firemoose]

I understand that Coach. That was only part of my post, the other part being that until 2012 we were a 63 scholarship team and it wasn't until 2014 that we reached close to 85. Depth is depth and scholarship depth is even better. While a lot of people share the belief that the difference between FCS and the SB may not be huge they are still 85 scholarship teams, and so were the teams that were on that list.

However there is no disputing the fact that our recruits since the move have had more FBS offers than they did before. I pay very little attention to ratings but I do closely watch other offers. And we are signing recruits with not only SB offers but CUSA, MAC, AAC, service academies, and even P5 offers. That happened once in a while when we were FCS but now it's much more common. I was just saying that if we're going to lament our record against FBS programs we should see what we do once we are at the level of depth and experience of similar level schools and at least closer to the high P5's we've been playing. Then it's a truer apples to apples comparison.

[bcoach]

I understand that Coach. That was only part of my post, the other part being that until 2012 we were a 63 scholarship team and it wasn't until 2014 that we reached close to 85. Depth is depth and scholarship depth is even better. While a lot of people share the belief that the difference between FCS and the SB may not be huge they are still 85 scholarship teams, and so were the teams that were on that list.

However there is no disputing the fact that our recruits since the move have had more FBS offers than they did before. I pay very little attention to ratings but I do closely watch other offers. And we are signing recruits with not only SB offers but CUSA, MAC, AAC, service academies, and even P5 offers. That happened once in a while when we were FCS but now it's much more common. I was just saying that if we're going to lament our record against FBS programs we should see what we do once we are at the level of depth and experience of similar level schools and at least closer to the high P5's we've been playing. Then it's a truer apples to apples comparison.

No argument moose and I should have made it a separate post. I did not mean to dispute ant of your 100% on post. I was only meaning to complement our past recruiting.

[Bearboy]

I think you have to consider the fact that several of our first year FBS players(2014) had serious interest from several P5 schools. These guys have been major contributors since their arrival.

[AtlAppMan]

My FBS W/L list and statement made the point that we had not been competitive in most of our FBS games since 2000 and I intentionally set aside the reasons why.

But as several posters have very accurately filled in some very critical reasons why, here is my takeaway from these stats. It is a fact that for 13 of 15 years listed since 2000, we were FCS and working with 3/4 the scholarships of FBS teams. In addition, even in the last two years we are yet to reach a full set of 85 scholarships with FBS level recruiting. Those are real factors that impact results against FBS competition over an entire season.

The good news from my point of view is that this current team (we still have most of our core players and coaches returning) is making huge strides in competitive level of play. In 2014 we started slow and finished strong. In 2015 we maintained a mostly high level of play throughout a demanding 13 game schedule. I think most of the hiccups in 2015 were injury and lack of depth related. As some have mentioned, give us a few more years to fortify our depth with FBS quality personnel and we will take ourselves to another level.

This really goes back to my original post in this thread that our current team (players/coaches) has nothing to do with our FCS teams of the past and I believe this is the year we could turn some heads.