More seats at KBS

[bigdaddyg]

Are there any charts, demographics that show where our active Yosef (season ticket holders) live? I wonder how many live within 2 hours of Boone? It gets expensive to travel up to 3 hours away, pay for tickets, hotel and food. I'm not conjuring up excuses. Maybe just explanations- of course this isn't a relevation.

three hours you can drive up and back same day and not have a hotel bill

I do this with my family 6 times a year. Not bad at all. Especially with 3:30 kick-offs.

I was thinking more about the noon games. I know typically we are at 3:30 and I'm not making excuses for anyone. Just speculation. As far as bleachers go it just can't be that expensive to put up temporary. At $60 a pop adding 3k to 5k seats pays for itself I would think.

[AppDawg]

Are there any charts, demographics that show where our active Yosef (season ticket holders) live? I wonder how many live within 2 hours of Boone? It gets expensive to travel up to 3 hours away, pay for tickets, hotel and food. I'm not conjuring up excuses. Maybe just explanations- of course this isn't a relevation.

three hours you can drive up and back same day and not have a hotel bill

I do this with my family 6 times a year. Not bad at all. Especially with 3:30 kick-offs.

I was thinking more about the noon games. I know typically we are at 3:30 and I'm not making excuses for anyone. Just speculation. As far as bleachers go it just can't be that expensive to put up temporary. At $60 a pop adding 3k to 5k seats pays for itself I would think.

Noon games, it is park and walk into game. 3:30 allows 3-4 hours of tailgate. That's why I mentioned 3:30. I think We all agree its the "perfect" time.

As far as additional seats, one year we added temp bleachers for the GaSo Band offest from the east stands in front of the flag poles.

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

Keep in mind, the 2500 seat addition is for the entire season, not just for the Miami game. Likely that the capacity will be increased somehow for the Miami game.

[Yosef10]

It also doesn't help that we beat ODU 49-0 last year. I expect a better team this year but to the average fan they see that and would rather travel to UT next week and skip ODU and come back for Miami.

Just a reasonable thing. We have a good fanbase but Appalachian does not have a huge amount of local alums in Boone like a lot of others have in our G5 demographic.

Us beating a team badly shouldnt have any effect on the fans in the seats. We beat teams like Samford mercilessly year in and year out but butts were still in the seats. And I would much rather see ODU than Samford. We have a good fanbase, it's dedication to show up on gameday is questionable though. However, as has been noted on here before, attendance is becoming an issue all around the country. At some point we'll have to upgrade the amenities in KBS to compliment the game experience. Universities have been woefully behind in this line of thinking.

[Saint3333]

If you're a fan that's been itching for college football for months now, why wouldn't you want to spend a September Saturday in Boone?

There are three reasons not to:
- App football really isn't a priority for you (kid events, etc. trump college football)
- Price - people just don't have the funds for the trip
- Access - every game is on TV or streamed to tv easily, but if you have the funds and no other activities get off the couch and come fellowship with 25k of the best people you'll find on this earth.

[Gonzo]

I think it's perfectly reasonable for many casual fans to choose Miami over ODU in consecutive weeks. Two trips to the mountains in as many weeks isn't feasible for many. My graduating class, superfans who walked on to campus for the first time during the 3peat and the UM win, are buying houses and starting families right now.

I'm happy with 24k for ODU.

[Goapps15]

It also doesn't help that we beat ODU 49-0 last year. I expect a better team this year but to the average fan they see that and would rather travel to UT next week and skip ODU and come back for Miami.

Just a reasonable thing. We have a good fanbase but Appalachian does not have a huge amount of local alums in Boone like a lot of others have in our G5 demographic.

Us beating a team badly shouldnt have any effect on the fans in the seats. We beat teams like Samford mercilessly year in and year out but butts were still in the seats. And I would much rather see ODU than Samford. We have a good fanbase, it's dedication to show up on gameday is questionable though. However, as has been noted on here before, attendance is becoming an issue all around the country. At some point we'll have to upgrade the amenities in KBS to compliment the game experience. Universities have been woefully behind in this line of thinking.

Yosef,

I agree with many of your points. I have been coming to games since the late 90s.

The issue is many of the younger alums mentioned by Gonzo below are the ones who were always there have other priorities now. Many would rather travel to Knoxville than see the ODU game in Boone. I will be at every game but for many the timing of ODU and the teams around them make it difficult for many.

To your last point, every school and major professional team are way behind on fan experience. It has caught up to several of them.

[Yosef84]

Think of it this way, you don't build a parking garage at the mall JUST because you don't have enough parking at Christmas. Trying to add a ton of seats for MIami is an expense I don't think is justified, and would not be a smart use of money. It's more expensive than you think to add those seats and take them down, and I don't want to see more aluminum the rest of the home games. It's one mans opinion that we are doing the right thing here.

Actually, I believe that you will find that when malls are being built, the parking capacity is absolutely set based on the peek Christmas season demands. That's why, on almost any other day during the year, there are numerous empty spaces in mall parking lots. It might not be the closest parking, but it's certainly there! I'm not saying we need to built "tons" of seating, but the idea that we need to average +30K fans before expanding our PERMANENT seating is just wrong. We have used temporary seating for years. Yes, our attendance has dropped recently and that has been beat to death. Let's see what our average attendance is this year. I will wager that it takes a nice jump upward.

We should not be relying on temporary or grass seats to accommodate normal volumes. Right now, we are! I think that an expansion that puts permanent seats around 30K is reasonable. We absolutely DO need a fiscally responsible plan for funding any additions, meaning it should not impact existing debt retirement and should not ride on the backs of student fees. That is the valid reason for wating...not attendance. I'm not sure how that happens, but that's the administration's job. Hopefully they can figure it out.

As soon as I win that doggone lottery, we will be much closer! How does Campbell Concourse sound to everybody? HA!

[bigdaddyg]

Agree that expansion thing is beat to death but do we wait until we consistently average 25k before adding just 5k more permanent seats? That's not exactly a great leap. Something about a 30,000 seat stadium just sounds right. I'm just spitballing here but is it feasible to add 5k or so temporary seats on the field house end and leave the bank open. At the end of the season we remove the temp bleachers in order to allow for track. During the season cover the remaining track with removable turf (that is purely for aesthetics). We will always have the potential for bad weather and the weeknight games which naturally drive down numbers.

[EastHallApp]

Yes, our attendance has dropped recently and that has been beat to death. Let's see what our average attendance is this year. I will wager that it takes a nice jump upward.

I'm more interested to see what the average attendance will be for the five non-Miami games.

[AppOrange]

Think of it this way, you don't build a parking garage at the mall JUST because you don't have enough parking at Christmas. Trying to add a ton of seats for MIami is an expense I don't think is justified, and would not be a smart use of money. It's more expensive than you think to add those seats and take them down, and I don't want to see more aluminum the rest of the home games. It's one mans opinion that we are doing the right thing here.

Actually, I believe that you will find that when malls are being built, the parking capacity is absolutely set based on the peek Christmas season demands. That's why, on almost any other day during the year, there are numerous empty spaces in mall parking lots. It might not be the closest parking, but it's certainly there! I'm not saying we need to built "tons" of seating, but the idea that we need to average +30K fans before expanding our PERMANENT seating is just wrong. We have used temporary seating for years. Yes, our attendance has dropped recently and that has been beat to death. Let's see what our average attendance is this year. I will wager that it takes a nice jump upward.

We should not be relying on temporary or grass seats to accommodate normal volumes. Right now, we are! I think that an expansion that puts permanent seats around 30K is reasonable. We absolutely DO need a fiscally responsible plan for funding any additions, meaning it should not impact existing debt retirement and should not ride on the backs of student fees. That is the valid reason for wating...not attendance. I'm not sure how that happens, but that's the administration's job. Hopefully they can figure it out.

As soon as I win that doggone lottery, we will be much closer! How does Campbell Concourse sound to everybody? HA!

Well we will have to agree to disagree because most businesses, from my experience, would not make such an investment for such a small window of need, weather it be parking or any other accommodation that would not have a good ROI. In regards to malls, yes, parking is ample for most of the year (more of a result of spaces needed per square footage code) but also typically lacking during the big shopping season. Your logic would suggest shopping centers all have adequate parking during these peak times and tons of extra parking the rest of the year. I simply do not see this as the case anywhere I have been. I agree with the rest of your post on responsible funding plans, but just do not see a need for added spaces when they haven't been needed in years. Some of our biggest games have had too many empty seats, adding more now does not seem prudent. If we start seeing more than 1 sell out a year, I'm right with you.

[bigdaddyg]

There will be at least 4 at the opener! Pumped!

[S.Lewis15]

As a recent grad, I live 350 miles away from Boone, and I'll likely only make it to 1 game this year. I probably won't be able to make it to any game after October as I'll be heading off for the Coast Guard.

Some other friends that I graduated with are heading back up to Boone for the ODU game and I couldn't be more excited for App State football again.

[bigdaddyg]

Think of it this way, you don't build a parking garage at the mall JUST because you don't have enough parking at Christmas. Trying to add a ton of seats for MIami is an expense I don't think is justified, and would not be a smart use of money. It's more expensive than you think to add those seats and take them down, and I don't want to see more aluminum the rest of the home games. It's one mans opinion that we are doing the right thing here.

Actually, I believe that you will find that when malls are being built, the parking capacity is absolutely set based on the peek Christmas season demands. That's why, on almost any other day during the year, there are numerous empty spaces in mall parking lots. It might not be the closest parking, but it's certainly there! I'm not saying we need to built "tons" of seating, but the idea that we need to average +30K fans before expanding our PERMANENT seating is just wrong. We have used temporary seating for years. Yes, our attendance has dropped recently and that has been beat to death. Let's see what our average attendance is this year. I will wager that it takes a nice jump upward.

We should not be relying on temporary or grass seats to accommodate normal volumes. Right now, we are! I think that an expansion that puts permanent seats around 30K is reasonable. We absolutely DO need a fiscally responsible plan for funding any additions, meaning it should not impact existing debt retirement and should not ride on the backs of student fees. That is the valid reason for wating...not attendance. I'm not sure how that happens, but that's the administration's job. Hopefully they can figure it out.

As soon as I win that doggone lottery, we will be much closer! How does Campbell Concourse sound to everybody? HA!

Well we will have to agree to disagree because most businesses, from my experience, would not make such an investment for such a small window of need, weather it be parking or any other accommodation that would not have a good ROI. In regards to malls, yes, parking is ample for most of the year (more of a result of spaces needed per square footage code) but also typically lacking during the big shopping season. Your logic would suggest shopping centers all have adequate parking during these peak times and tons of extra parking the rest of the year. I simply do not see this as the case anywhere I have been. I agree with the rest of your post on responsible funding plans, but just do not see a need for added spaces when they haven't been needed in years. Some of our biggest games have had too many empty seats, adding more now does not seem prudent. If we start seeing more than 1 sell out a year, I'm right with you.

I have yet to see a mall that doesn't have a huge parking lot. For 11 months out of the year most never fill up.

As an aside why do all Walmarts (arguably one of the most profitable and successful chains in the world) choose to install 30 or so checkout lines with registers but never operate all of them? Now during the holidays they ramp up employees and operate more lines. They don't tear them out when shopping drops off.

I completely agree that it would be fiscally irresponsible to expand to 35-40k permanent seating. I just don't think we will maintain an alumni base large enough. Some of these schools playing in huge stadiums with 15,000 fans look pitiful.

[EastHallApp]

Overall, our supply for seating exceeds our demand (Miami excepted). For premium seating, though - club level and luxury boxes - our demand far exceeds our supply, at least as I understand it.

Call me crazy, but I'd say if you have a waiting list for premium seating, that's probably where you should focus your next round of expansion/enhancements.

[boonetown1]

Overall, our supply for seating exceeds our demand (Miami excepted). For premium seating, though - club level and luxury boxes - our demand far exceeds our supply, at least as I understand it.

Call me crazy, but I'd say if you have a waiting list for premium seating, that's probably where you should focus your next round of expansion/enhancements.

Exactly, go ahead and build your permanent seating around the north end zone that adds about 3500 additional seats. Then put premium seating at the top of that.

[bigdaddyg]

Overall, our supply for seating exceeds our demand (Miami excepted). For premium seating, though - club level and luxury boxes - our demand far exceeds our supply, at least as I understand it.

Call me crazy, but I'd say if you have a waiting list for premium seating, that's probably where you should focus your next round of expansion/enhancements.

Exactly, go ahead and build your permanent seating around the north end zone that adds about 3500 additional seats. Then put premium seating at the top of that.

Provided the track goes..correct?

[Yosef84]

Think of it this way, you don't build a parking garage at the mall JUST because you don't have enough parking at Christmas. Trying to add a ton of seats for MIami is an expense I don't think is justified, and would not be a smart use of money. It's more expensive than you think to add those seats and take them down, and I don't want to see more aluminum the rest of the home games. It's one mans opinion that we are doing the right thing here.

Actually, I believe that you will find that when malls are being built, the parking capacity is absolutely set based on the peek Christmas season demands. That's why, on almost any other day during the year, there are numerous empty spaces in mall parking lots. It might not be the closest parking, but it's certainly there! I'm not saying we need to built "tons" of seating, but the idea that we need to average +30K fans before expanding our PERMANENT seating is just wrong. We have used temporary seating for years. Yes, our attendance has dropped recently and that has been beat to death. Let's see what our average attendance is this year. I will wager that it takes a nice jump upward.

We should not be relying on temporary or grass seats to accommodate normal volumes. Right now, we are! I think that an expansion that puts permanent seats around 30K is reasonable. We absolutely DO need a fiscally responsible plan for funding any additions, meaning it should not impact existing debt retirement and should not ride on the backs of student fees. That is the valid reason for wating...not attendance. I'm not sure how that happens, but that's the administration's job. Hopefully they can figure it out.

As soon as I win that doggone lottery, we will be much closer! How does Campbell Concourse sound to everybody? HA!

Well we will have to agree to disagree because most businesses, from my experience, would not make such an investment for such a small window of need, weather it be parking or any other accommodation that would not have a good ROI. In regards to malls, yes, parking is ample for most of the year (more of a result of spaces needed per square footage code) but also typically lacking during the big shopping season. Your logic would suggest shopping centers all have adequate parking during these peak times and tons of extra parking the rest of the year. I simply do not see this as the case anywhere I have been. I agree with the rest of your post on responsible funding plans, but just do not see a need for added spaces when they haven't been needed in years. Some of our biggest games have had too many empty seats, adding more now does not seem prudent. If we start seeing more than 1 sell out a year, I'm right with you.

I'm not trying to justify an immediate expansion. I was just pointing out the logic used in seasonal businesses like Malls. They justify the cost because the vast majority of their annual revenue and profits are generated during the peak season. Football is somewhat similar. We only have 6 annual opportunities to generate revenue (home games), and maximizing those opportunities is important. It is always a guessing game because of the planning and construction periods required for these capital projects. Building is based on projections, etc. My point is that, if we do ANY expansion, we need to go up to around 30K. Adding 5 or 6,000 seats is not going to cost that much more than adding 2K so on a cost per seat basis, it makes sense to go bigger. Adding them piecemeal is MUCH more expensive and results in a chopped up look.

As a CPA, I'm more than a little familiar with how businesses justify capital expenditures. I also know that college sports programs rarely play by the same rules as businesses. Our ideal scenario would be funding expansions largely with contributions and CORPORATE sponsorship (which has largely eluded us thus far) and other fund raising opportunities (naming rights for example).

One final note....we exceeded 25K as an average for regular season games for several years and only recently dropped back. I've already clarified that I expect to see that number bounce up this year. I completely agree with others who say they want to see the attendence at the non-Miami games. If we are still hovering at 23K in those games, I would agree we need to pump the brakes a bit.

[Appftw]

All of the armchair ADs on here are a hoot (I especially love all the wet blankets who insist on telling people that theyre unrealistic). All we need to worry about is winning. If we can keep winning (especially bowl games) this program will continue to grow.

We have made huge strides since our first national championship. I don't think it will continue at the same rate, but I would bet my Yosef donation that we will announce plans to modify the stadium somehow by 2020. Owens Field House is becoming a bigger eyesore than the track.

[AppGrad78]

Count me among those who believe we're not quite ready for expansion ... but we're close. I'd rather see a crowd of 28,000 crammed into a stadium that seats 25,000 than the same crowd in a stadium that holds 35,000. Major league baseball teams are downsizing for that reason. Duke basketball never upsized, preferring its intimate atmosphere.

I'd like to see us focus on getting ready for expansion. That is, do the things -- expensive things -- that will position us for future expansion. We need to, 1) relocate the track, 2) tear down Owens, 3) lower the field or move the lower portion of the east stands closer to the west stands, 4) regrade and take out the U in the the south end zone, and 5) add luxury suites to the east side. None of this will add a meaningful number of seats, but it will position us nicely for the time when we have to expand.