The cancer on this program is

[RaleighApp27609]

*** App State is one of only five Group of Five
programs (and 14 FBS programs) in the country with at least three
nine-win seasons since the start of 2020.
***3 STRAIGHT YEARS WITH A RANKED WIN
2021: 30-27 vs. #14 Coastal Carolina
2022: 17-14 at #6 Texas A&M
2023: 26-23 (OT) at #18 James Madison
*** No losing seasons
*** Division Champions 2 of last 3 years

Again, these are facts not opinions and they are in the ballpark of W-L records - the only other reason I have seen is that the program is on a downward trend. Without question this is a down year but as pointed out last season we were division champs and won another bowl game. Only one other team in the SB world of 14 teams can say that.
In the last 6 years there have been 84 (give or take) teams playing for the 2 slots in the Conf.Champ game - those 12 slots have been filled by just 4 teams - APPSTATE 4 times --- LOUISIANA 4 times --- TROY 2 times and COASTAL 2 times
I know some who see a downward trend here - convince an impartial party that this is your case to fire the coach. None of us are impartial but some are totally impractical

Reposting my response to a similar post from last night:

"3 STRAIGHT YEARS WITH A RANKED WIN"....Not this year

"No losing seasons" ....That streak ends this season. By the way, 2022 we went 6-6...two of those wins were against FCS competition.

"Division Champions 2 of last 3 years"....Last year doesn't count as JMU was ranked ahead of us in the division. If we're being honest with ourselves it should say division champions 1 of last 5 years (including 2024) with Clark leading the program.

[RaleighApp27609]

*** App State is one of only five Group of Five
programs (and 14 FBS programs) in the country with at least three
nine-win seasons since the start of 2020.
***3 STRAIGHT YEARS WITH A RANKED WIN
2021: 30-27 vs. #14 Coastal Carolina
2022: 17-14 at #6 Texas A&M
2023: 26-23 (OT) at #18 James Madison
*** No losing seasons
*** Division Champions 2 of last 3 years

Again, these are facts not opinions and they are in the ballpark of W-L records - the only other reason I have seen is that the program is on a downward trend. Without question this is a down year but as pointed out last season we were division champs and won another bowl game. Only one other team in the SB world of 14 teams can say that.
In the last 6 years there have been 84 (give or take) teams playing for the 2 slots in the Conf.Champ game - those 12 slots have been filled by just 4 teams - APPSTATE 4 times --- LOUISIANA 4 times --- TROY 2 times and COASTAL 2 times
I know some who see a downward trend here - convince an impartial party that this is your case to fire the coach. None of us are impartial but some are totally impractical

Anecdotal stats are great:
- First team to miss bowl season, that GS loss was brutal
- First team to lose a bowl game, so many blowouts the last three years
- First team to having a losing record vs. the SBC, on pace for our second season
- First team to lose to ULL 0-4, CCU 1-3, ODU, and Texas St.
- First 0-3 start to conference play (including SoCon era)

If you don't believe the performance the last 4.5 years is a downward trend I would have to question your analytic skills.

You could also add first team to lose Sunbelt Championship game. 0-2 under Clark.

[bcoach]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

[Pikapp79]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

He continues to bust. Time for new direction.

[bcoach]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

https://sunbeltsports.org/news/2024/7/2 ... -poll.aspx

Multiple pre-season magazines predicted us winning the conference this year as well.

and it was based on smoke and mirrors. We did not have the horses and that has been proven. My word the other teams best offense is our defense.

[BallantyneApp]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

https://sunbeltsports.org/news/2024/7/2 ... -poll.aspx

Multiple pre-season magazines predicted us winning the conference this year as well.

and it was based on smoke and mirrors. We did not have the horses and that has been proven. My word the other teams best offense is our defense.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Either we are underperforming based on expectations and it was unknown or we are underperforming based on expectations and it was known. It really doesn't change anything. Frankly I think you are taking our question marks and assigning it as if people knew we were deficient rather than it being unknown how we were going to be.

[Saint3333]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

Are you this quick to give folks a pass at your place of business as well?

[bcoach]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

https://sunbeltsports.org/news/2024/7/2 ... -poll.aspx

Multiple pre-season magazines predicted us winning the conference this year as well.

and it was based on smoke and mirrors. We did not have the horses and that has been proven. My word the other teams best offense is our defense.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Either we are underperforming based on expectations and it was unknown or we are underperforming based on expectations and it was known. It really doesn't change anything. Frankly I think you are taking our question marks and assigning it as if people knew we were deficient rather than it being unknown how we were going to be.

I am going to leave it at this as I have a bunch of things to do. There is more than one point but lets just ask this one question. Who is it that thought we would have great line play.
Now for real I am going to stop beating this dead horse. It gets us nowhere.

[bcoach]

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

Who am I giving a pass?
Are you this quick to give folks a pass at your place of business as well?

[bcoach]

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

Who am I giving a pass?
Are you this quick to give folks a pass at your place of business as well?

Not sure what that was.
Who am I giving a pass?

[appgrad95&97]

*** App State is one of only five Group of Five
programs (and 14 FBS programs) in the country with at least three
nine-win seasons since the start of 2020.
***3 STRAIGHT YEARS WITH A RANKED WIN
2021: 30-27 vs. #14 Coastal Carolina
2022: 17-14 at #6 Texas A&M
2023: 26-23 (OT) at #18 James Madison
*** No losing seasons
*** Division Champions 2 of last 3 years

Again, these are facts not opinions and they are in the ballpark of W-L records - the only other reason I have seen is that the program is on a downward trend. Without question this is a down year but as pointed out last season we were division champs and won another bowl game. Only one other team in the SB world of 14 teams can say that.
In the last 6 years there have been 84 (give or take) teams playing for the 2 slots in the Conf.Champ game - those 12 slots have been filled by just 4 teams - APPSTATE 4 times --- LOUISIANA 4 times --- TROY 2 times and COASTAL 2 times
I know some who see a downward trend here - convince an impartial party that this is your case to fire the coach. None of us are impartial but some are totally impractical

Anecdotal stats are great:
- First team to miss bowl season, that GS loss was brutal
- First team to lose a bowl game, so many blowouts the last three years
- First team to having a losing record vs. the SBC, on pace for our second season
- First team to lose to ULL 0-4, CCU 1-3, ODU, and Texas St.
- First 0-3 start to conference play (including SoCon era)

If you don't believe the performance the last 4.5 years is a downward trend I would have to question your analytic skills.

I'd be surprised if anyone doesn't see the regression over Clark's tenure. I think some people are willing to look past it because Clark is a likable App guy. And some people excuse it because of a lack of resources or the transfer portal or NIL.

[hapapp]

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

Are you this quick to give folks a pass at your place of business as well?

He's simply saying that many of us bought into the coach speak and what others thought. But given our inexperience on the OL, we should have realized that we had some big question marks. I don't think he's excusing Shawn for where we are, I think he's saying we shouldn't have been so surprised.

[Yosef10]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

For it to be coach speak it would have to be a typical statement, but Shawn never once mentioned an NY6 bowl as a program goal. He obviously thought this team could achieve the G5 playoff spot. The knots you guys twist yourself in to defend the coach is funny though.

[Saint3333]

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

Are you this quick to give folks a pass at your place of business as well?

He's simply saying that many of us bought into the coach speak and what others thought. But given our inexperience on the OL, we should have realized that we had some big question marks. I don't think he's excusing Shawn for where we are, I think he's saying we shouldn't have been so surprised.

When someone that has access to the level of talent we possess on a daily basis is stating 2024 is the year and we are primed for a title run I'm going to put trust in them. (every media outlet did as well)

When that person is a good person and representative of App State off the field I'm going to believe them.

Now it's the fanbase's fault for not trusting the staff's words, yet we should have trust they are what is best for the program?

The mental gymnastics are very impressive.

Perhaps we were naive, I won't make that mistake again. I now have a healthy amount of doubt about this staff's ability to assess and develop talent. And that is maybe more damning than the current win/loss record, it provides less hope that this staff in the answer longterm.

[bcoach]

We never had the horses to run this race. Yes that is the fault of recruiting but it does not change the fact we didn't have them. Nobody who was not wearing rose colored glasses thought we were the team this year. I still can't get a really good answer as to why anyone thought so.

This is revisionist history. There’s a reason Clark himself publicly said a stated goal for this team was to make the playoff.

Really? Coach speak is the answer?

For it to be coach speak it would have to be a typical statement, but Shawn never once mentioned an NY6 bowl as a program goal. He obviously thought this team could achieve the G5 playoff spot. The knots you guys twist yourself in to defend the coach is funny though.

Nice try but no. I am not defending Coach with what I said. I am saying it was coach speak. That is all. No twist no knots. Him stating that needs no defense. It is simply coach speak. Sorry that upsets you but it is what it is.

[bcoach]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlayberg ... tradition/

“Being an alum and knowing what it takes to win, I’ve been a part of great championship runs here,” said Clark, an assistant at his alma mater under Scott Satterfield (2016-18) and Eliah Drinkwitz (2019) before assuming the lead role prior to the 2019 New Orleans Bowl. “There are high expectations at App State. It’s championship or bust.”

Exactly. It is coach speak.

Are you this quick to give folks a pass at your place of business as well?

He's simply saying that many of us bought into the coach speak and what others thought. But given our inexperience on the OL, we should have realized that we had some big question marks. I don't think he's excusing Shawn for where we are, I think he's saying we shouldn't have been so surprised.

When someone that has access to the level of talent we possess on a daily basis is stating 2024 is the year and we are primed for a title run I'm going to put trust in them. (every media outlet did as well)

When that person is a good person and representative of App State off the field I'm going to believe them.

Now it's the fanbase's fault for not trusting the staff's words, yet we should have trust they are what is best for the program?

The mental gymnastics are very impressive.

Perhaps we were naive, I won't make that mistake again. I now have a healthy amount of doubt about this staff's ability to assess and develop talent. And that is maybe more damning than the current win/loss record, it provides less hope that this staff in the answer longterm.

I keep hearing ( but not as much lately ) about this wealth of talent. Serious question. Do you still believe that?

[Saint3333]

Hard to say if we don't have the talent or we are getting out prepared, outcoached, or out executed.

Whether the answer is we aren't recruiting the same level of talent or we aren't executing in relation to our peers comes back to the same problem/solution.

[bcoach]

Hard to say if we don't have the talent or we are getting out prepared, outcoached, or out executed.

Whether the answer is we aren't recruiting the same level of talent or we aren't executing in relation to our peers comes back to the same problem/solution.

I am in no way defending the coaching. I just don't believe we have the talent. Could a new staff of coaches do a better job? That is very possible maybe even probable. I don't believe though that we have the talent that I kept hearing about. So yes I think we all know the solution.

[BeauFoster]

Thank god the gatekeeper is back to tell us how we should feel about our team as fans. I was struggling.

That’s it…Clark should definitely stay because WV thinks he’s a nice guy with a family, and the consistent, downward trend of the football program should be ignored because we beat an over-rated TAMU team 2 years ago!

[appgrad95&97]

I bet the "2024 is our year" crowd and the "funding secured" crowd are very similar.