Moving Forward

[MrCraig]

My concern is Clark will or is coaching scared. App is in rare and somewhat uncharted territory with this season. Not so sure bowl eligible can be achieved at this point. Both ODU and the Stink are both very winnable games. Just concerned that moving forward we see success with status quo. Don't know what changes will or are needed to be honest. The defense is what we expected, the offense is in the biggest ditch we could have fallen into. Another concern is Clark's lack of any reasonable response on post game last night. When asked what went wrong he said he didn't know and hoped to find answers when they reviewed film today. We all put those coaches and players under the microscope but I don't think any of us truly know what we are seeing right now. There was no reason we should have lost yesterday or several other games this season with what has been traditionally put on the field. I'm rambling on and I apologize.

I’m almost sure that whoever was calling the offensive plays the first 3 games hasn’t been calling them since. I don’t know why, and I’ll probably never know, but whoever was calling the plays the first 3 games should get play calling responsibilities for the last 2 (3?) games.

[WataugaMan]

I’m almost sure that whoever was calling the offensive plays the first 3 games hasn’t been calling them since. I don’t know why, and I’ll probably never know, but whoever was calling the plays the first 3 games should get play calling responsibilities for the last 2 (3?) games.

If true, if I was the one calling the plays the first 3 games (and, had been cancelled for no apparent reason), I find employment elsewhere at season end.

[Yosef84]

I don't know that the play calling responsibility was pulled, but it certainly wasn't for the first 3 games. The reality is that, in the games following, we weren't making adjustments. Opponents figured out the passing game (apparently) and the OL was getting stood up. In the first three games, App as a passing offense was unexpected and nobody prepared for it. I really don't know what happened but something certainly did. Maybe over-confidence bred complacency...maybe something else.

[MrCraig]

I don't know that the play calling responsibility was pulled, but it certainly wasn't for the first 3 games. The reality is that, in the games following, we weren't making adjustments. Opponents figured out the passing game (apparently) and the OL was getting stood up. In the first three games, App as a passing offense was unexpected and nobody prepared for it. I really don't know what happened but something certainly did. Maybe over-confidence bred complacency...maybe something else.

I've seen what you're saying too. However, from my amateur perspective, it doesn't seem like we are running the same type of plays. It would be one thing if we were running the same sort of run and pass plays we did during the first 3 games, with a good bit of misdirection, some sweeps, shorter passes and some focused plays on the tight ends, and those plays were just being stopped. I haven't seen us running those type of plays. Our offense has gotten very predictable, harkening back to the Pederson offense from a couple years ago. That's what makes me think the person calling the plays at the beginning of the season isn't the person calling the plays now. I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong, though.

[Yosef84]

I don't know that the play calling responsibility was pulled, but it certainly wasn't for the first 3 games. The reality is that, in the games following, we weren't making adjustments. Opponents figured out the passing game (apparently) and the OL was getting stood up. In the first three games, App as a passing offense was unexpected and nobody prepared for it. I really don't know what happened but something certainly did. Maybe over-confidence bred complacency...maybe something else.

I've seen what you're saying too. However, from my amateur perspective, it doesn't seem like we are running the same type of plays. It would be one thing if we were running the same sort of run and pass plays we did during the first 3 games, with a good bit of misdirection, some sweeps, shorter passes and some focused plays on the tight ends, and those plays were just being stopped. I haven't seen us running those type of plays. Our offense has gotten very predictable, harkening back to the Pederson offense from a couple years ago. That's what makes me think the person calling the plays at the beginning of the season isn't the person calling the plays now. I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong, though.

I completely agree that our offense doesn't seem to be running the same plays. My point is just whether it's a chicken/egg thing. Are we running different plays because we were getting shut down, or are we being shut down because we're running different plays? I have no idea. I've seen/heard people who have much better connections to the program saying that Clark is getting involved, and others saying Clark wouldn't micro-manage his coaches. I'm just armchair commenting. I just hope we can get some better plays called. I think the last two losses (especially Coastal) were definitely driven by less that stellar offensive strategy.

[mike87]

Probably be a good idea if they'd put a suggestion box at the gates. That way we could tell them the plays that need to be run.

[AtlAppMan]

If the offensive line is not getting the push for running and protection for passing, which started happening, the defenses started figuring out they could crash the box (all of them are playing D downhill) and it is blowing up our plays. That appears to be part of the root of the problem which then becomes a self fulfilling problem. O play calling changes to try to add extra TE blockers, which causes more crowding of the box, etc. etc. It is clear our O line is NOT getting push on rushing plays so RBs can't get any space. Why? Talent, under performing, coaches, ??? Some or all of the above. I do think this is compounding problem. It seems O line has been going downhill for a few years and we may be seeing the culmination of that.

I am just brainstorming here with some personal observations as a basis. I am not saying this is prescription but it does appear to be valid symptoms.

[BambooRdApp]

To the above...when they crash box, we do not seem to have alternative option to change to...short pass to the outside,. slant pass, etc. to keep LBs and DBs honest

[WVAPPeer]

The previous two years, I believe, our OL has been finalists for top OL in the country

[Mjohn1988]

Probably be a good idea if they'd put a suggestion box at the gates. That way we could tell them the plays that need to be run.

I know one think for sure, we would never run another inside zone run again!!!

[Mjohn1988]

The previous two years, I believe, our OL has been finalists for top OL in the country

I haven’t missed seeing a game and I trust my eyes more than I trust the folks giving out those awards.

[ASUTodd]

Hard to be the best when you have a coach that tells a lineman he's too tall for his liking. That player then accepts an offer from another school in NC. Especially when that lineman is a stud. Oh well.... I guess we can use the portal....wait....

[WVAPPeer]

Just so people don't think I am nuts ---
JOE MOORE AWARD ANNOUNCES 2021 SEMIFINALISTS
November 23, 2021

THIRTEEN UNITS EARN SEMIFINALIST HONOR THROUGH TOUGH, PHYSICAL O-LINE PLAY
NEW YORK, New York – November 23, 2021 — The Foundation for Teamwork announced today thirteen semifinalists for the 2021 Joe Moore Award, given to the top offensive line unit in college football. The Joe Moore Award has annually presented the unique award since 2015.

The thirteen semifinalists include (in alphabetical order): Air Force, #25 Arkansas, Appalachian State, #9 Baylor, #1 Georgia, Kentucky, #23 Louisiana, #2 Ohio State, #6 Michigan, #12 Michigan State, #11 Oregon, Oregon State, and #18 Wisconsin.

For games played through November 20th, the 2021 Joe Moore Award semifinalists have a combined record of 115-28 and represent six FBS conferences: BIG TEN (4), BIG-12 (1), MOUNTAIN WEST (1), PAC-12 (2), SEC (3), and SUN BELT (2). Combined, these teams average 439.7 total yards per game (compared to national average of 399.4) and 218.9 rushing yards per game (compared to national average 163.9), and represent four of the Top 10 and nine of the Top 25 in the latest AP poll.*

“Due to unprecedented inconsistency for many teams and units, this has been a challenging year for our evaluation process,” said Cole Cubelic, lead sideline analyst for the SEC Network and the Chairman of the Joe Moore Award Voting Committee. “Several units that played well one week, struggled the next. And vice versa. This sort of inconsistency has made it more difficult than usual, but this year’s semifinalists have earned their inclusion through the sort of elevated play that excellence at our position requires.”

The Joe Moore Award finalists will be named on Tuesday, December 7th. The eventual winner will be recognized in the ensuing weeks during a surprise, on campus visit to the winning unit’s school (TBD as per the winning school’s schedule).

“Like in year’s past, in addition to the extensive film review and voting committee conference calls, we solicited the opinions of more than sixty-five FBS head coaches that had personally faced many of the O-line units under consideration,” said Phil Steele, analyst and founder of the popular preseason magazine Phil Steele's College Football Preview. “It’s been an honor to be a part of an award that matters so much to the O-line community, and we take that responsibility seriously.”

“Although it has been a challenging year to evaluate O-line units, what’s proven to hold true is the undeniable relationship between excellence at our position and winning football,” said Aaron Taylor, CBS college football analyst and co-founder of the Joe Moore Award. Taylor played guard at the University of Notre Dame for the award’s namesake, the legendary offensive line coach Joe Moore. “The exciting thing this year is that it’s still wide open, and these last few weeks will be extremely important, and we can’t wait to see who will be at their best when their best is needed.”

2021 Semifinalists at a Glance
Appalachian State (9-2)

Appalachian State has allowed eight sacks in 11 games, which leads the Sun Belt and is tied for third nationally.

App State is 10th in the country in lowest pressure percentage allowed.

What the committee is saying: “App State continues to put themselves in the conversation by having an edge and chippiness to their style of play. They seem to excel in the “Gotta Have Its” and goal line plays, and work combos with a consistency that is fun to watch. They admittedly struggled with Louisiana, but their collective body of work warrants their inclusion this year.

Offensive line coach: Nic Cardwell
The 2021 voting committee includes Chairman Cole Cubelic (Auburn, SEC Network); Charles Arbuckle (UCLA, Indianapolis Colts); Randy Cross (UCLA, San Francisco 49ers); Gerry DiNardo (Notre Dame, head coach at LSU); Mike Golic, Jr. (Notre Dame, ESPN); Harry Hiestand (Joe Moore disciple, NFL and College O-line Coach); Barrett Jones (Alabama, St. Louis Rams); Duke Manyweather (Humboldt State, player and coach; founder of OL Masterminds); Geoff Schwartz (Oregon, Carolina Panthers); Sam Schwartzstein (Stanford, XFL rules creator); Phil Steele (publisher of Phil Steele’s College Football Preview, ESPN); Aaron Taylor (Notre Dame, Green Bay Packers); and Lance Zierlein (NFL draft analyst, NFL.com).

[AppStateNews]

Probably be a good idea if they'd put a suggestion box at the gates. That way we could tell them the plays that need to be run.

I know one think for sure, we would never run another inside zone run again!!!

Which would be absolutely insane... If we don't run the inside, the outside won't work.

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

Probably be a good idea if they'd put a suggestion box at the gates. That way we could tell them the plays that need to be run.

This is a great idea, too bad it doesn’t already exist so you could put this one in it!

[Mjohn1988]

Probably be a good idea if they'd put a suggestion box at the gates. That way we could tell them the plays that need to be run.

I know one think for sure, we would never run another inside zone run again!!!

Which would be absolutely insane... If we don't run the inside, the outside won't work.

Agreed but most fans hate the inside zone until I pops for a big gain. We have scored a bunch of TD’s running between the tackles.

[MrCraig]

Just so people don't think I am nuts ---
JOE MOORE AWARD ANNOUNCES 2021 SEMIFINALISTS
November 23, 2021

THIRTEEN UNITS EARN SEMIFINALIST HONOR THROUGH TOUGH, PHYSICAL O-LINE PLAY
NEW YORK, New York – November 23, 2021 — The Foundation for Teamwork announced today thirteen semifinalists for the 2021 Joe Moore Award, given to the top offensive line unit in college football. The Joe Moore Award has annually presented the unique award since 2015.

The thirteen semifinalists include (in alphabetical order): Air Force, #25 Arkansas, Appalachian State, #9 Baylor, #1 Georgia, Kentucky, #23 Louisiana, #2 Ohio State, #6 Michigan, #12 Michigan State, #11 Oregon, Oregon State, and #18 Wisconsin.

For games played through November 20th, the 2021 Joe Moore Award semifinalists have a combined record of 115-28 and represent six FBS conferences: BIG TEN (4), BIG-12 (1), MOUNTAIN WEST (1), PAC-12 (2), SEC (3), and SUN BELT (2). Combined, these teams average 439.7 total yards per game (compared to national average of 399.4) and 218.9 rushing yards per game (compared to national average 163.9), and represent four of the Top 10 and nine of the Top 25 in the latest AP poll.*

“Due to unprecedented inconsistency for many teams and units, this has been a challenging year for our evaluation process,” said Cole Cubelic, lead sideline analyst for the SEC Network and the Chairman of the Joe Moore Award Voting Committee. “Several units that played well one week, struggled the next. And vice versa. This sort of inconsistency has made it more difficult than usual, but this year’s semifinalists have earned their inclusion through the sort of elevated play that excellence at our position requires.”

The Joe Moore Award finalists will be named on Tuesday, December 7th. The eventual winner will be recognized in the ensuing weeks during a surprise, on campus visit to the winning unit’s school (TBD as per the winning school’s schedule).

“Like in year’s past, in addition to the extensive film review and voting committee conference calls, we solicited the opinions of more than sixty-five FBS head coaches that had personally faced many of the O-line units under consideration,” said Phil Steele, analyst and founder of the popular preseason magazine Phil Steele's College Football Preview. “It’s been an honor to be a part of an award that matters so much to the O-line community, and we take that responsibility seriously.”

“Although it has been a challenging year to evaluate O-line units, what’s proven to hold true is the undeniable relationship between excellence at our position and winning football,” said Aaron Taylor, CBS college football analyst and co-founder of the Joe Moore Award. Taylor played guard at the University of Notre Dame for the award’s namesake, the legendary offensive line coach Joe Moore. “The exciting thing this year is that it’s still wide open, and these last few weeks will be extremely important, and we can’t wait to see who will be at their best when their best is needed.”

2021 Semifinalists at a Glance
Appalachian State (9-2)

Appalachian State has allowed eight sacks in 11 games, which leads the Sun Belt and is tied for third nationally.

App State is 10th in the country in lowest pressure percentage allowed.

What the committee is saying: “App State continues to put themselves in the conversation by having an edge and chippiness to their style of play. They seem to excel in the “Gotta Have Its” and goal line plays, and work combos with a consistency that is fun to watch. They admittedly struggled with Louisiana, but their collective body of work warrants their inclusion this year.

Offensive line coach: Nic Cardwell
The 2021 voting committee includes Chairman Cole Cubelic (Auburn, SEC Network); Charles Arbuckle (UCLA, Indianapolis Colts); Randy Cross (UCLA, San Francisco 49ers); Gerry DiNardo (Notre Dame, head coach at LSU); Mike Golic, Jr. (Notre Dame, ESPN); Harry Hiestand (Joe Moore disciple, NFL and College O-line Coach); Barrett Jones (Alabama, St. Louis Rams); Duke Manyweather (Humboldt State, player and coach; founder of OL Masterminds); Geoff Schwartz (Oregon, Carolina Panthers); Sam Schwartzstein (Stanford, XFL rules creator); Phil Steele (publisher of Phil Steele’s College Football Preview, ESPN); Aaron Taylor (Notre Dame, Green Bay Packers); and Lance Zierlein (NFL draft analyst, NFL.com).

I haven't paid too much attention to Louisville other than wins and losses, so I went and looked at their stats. Surprise, surprise! After bringing Nic Cardwell on as O-line coach, Louisville is 4th in the ACC in total yards and 3rd in rushing yards!

Fun fact: Myquon Stout and Zeb Speir are also on the staff at Louisville.

[Mjohn1988]

Just so people don't think I am nuts ---
JOE MOORE AWARD ANNOUNCES 2021 SEMIFINALISTS
November 23, 2021

THIRTEEN UNITS EARN SEMIFINALIST HONOR THROUGH TOUGH, PHYSICAL O-LINE PLAY
NEW YORK, New York – November 23, 2021 — The Foundation for Teamwork announced today thirteen semifinalists for the 2021 Joe Moore Award, given to the top offensive line unit in college football. The Joe Moore Award has annually presented the unique award since 2015.

The thirteen semifinalists include (in alphabetical order): Air Force, #25 Arkansas, Appalachian State, #9 Baylor, #1 Georgia, Kentucky, #23 Louisiana, #2 Ohio State, #6 Michigan, #12 Michigan State, #11 Oregon, Oregon State, and #18 Wisconsin.

For games played through November 20th, the 2021 Joe Moore Award semifinalists have a combined record of 115-28 and represent six FBS conferences: BIG TEN (4), BIG-12 (1), MOUNTAIN WEST (1), PAC-12 (2), SEC (3), and SUN BELT (2). Combined, these teams average 439.7 total yards per game (compared to national average of 399.4) and 218.9 rushing yards per game (compared to national average 163.9), and represent four of the Top 10 and nine of the Top 25 in the latest AP poll.*

“Due to unprecedented inconsistency for many teams and units, this has been a challenging year for our evaluation process,” said Cole Cubelic, lead sideline analyst for the SEC Network and the Chairman of the Joe Moore Award Voting Committee. “Several units that played well one week, struggled the next. And vice versa. This sort of inconsistency has made it more difficult than usual, but this year’s semifinalists have earned their inclusion through the sort of elevated play that excellence at our position requires.”

The Joe Moore Award finalists will be named on Tuesday, December 7th. The eventual winner will be recognized in the ensuing weeks during a surprise, on campus visit to the winning unit’s school (TBD as per the winning school’s schedule).

“Like in year’s past, in addition to the extensive film review and voting committee conference calls, we solicited the opinions of more than sixty-five FBS head coaches that had personally faced many of the O-line units under consideration,” said Phil Steele, analyst and founder of the popular preseason magazine Phil Steele's College Football Preview. “It’s been an honor to be a part of an award that matters so much to the O-line community, and we take that responsibility seriously.”

“Although it has been a challenging year to evaluate O-line units, what’s proven to hold true is the undeniable relationship between excellence at our position and winning football,” said Aaron Taylor, CBS college football analyst and co-founder of the Joe Moore Award. Taylor played guard at the University of Notre Dame for the award’s namesake, the legendary offensive line coach Joe Moore. “The exciting thing this year is that it’s still wide open, and these last few weeks will be extremely important, and we can’t wait to see who will be at their best when their best is needed.”

2021 Semifinalists at a Glance
Appalachian State (9-2)

Appalachian State has allowed eight sacks in 11 games, which leads the Sun Belt and is tied for third nationally.

App State is 10th in the country in lowest pressure percentage allowed.

What the committee is saying: “App State continues to put themselves in the conversation by having an edge and chippiness to their style of play. They seem to excel in the “Gotta Have Its” and goal line plays, and work combos with a consistency that is fun to watch. They admittedly struggled with Louisiana, but their collective body of work warrants their inclusion this year.

Offensive line coach: Nic Cardwell
The 2021 voting committee includes Chairman Cole Cubelic (Auburn, SEC Network); Charles Arbuckle (UCLA, Indianapolis Colts); Randy Cross (UCLA, San Francisco 49ers); Gerry DiNardo (Notre Dame, head coach at LSU); Mike Golic, Jr. (Notre Dame, ESPN); Harry Hiestand (Joe Moore disciple, NFL and College O-line Coach); Barrett Jones (Alabama, St. Louis Rams); Duke Manyweather (Humboldt State, player and coach; founder of OL Masterminds); Geoff Schwartz (Oregon, Carolina Panthers); Sam Schwartzstein (Stanford, XFL rules creator); Phil Steele (publisher of Phil Steele’s College Football Preview, ESPN); Aaron Taylor (Notre Dame, Green Bay Packers); and Lance Zierlein (NFL draft analyst, NFL.com).

I haven't paid too much attention to Louisville other than wins and losses, so I went and looked at their stats. Surprise, surprise! After bringing Nic Cardwell on as O-line coach, Louisville is 4th in the ACC in total yards and 3rd in rushing yards!

Fun fact: Myquon Stout and Zeb Speir are also on the staff at Louisville.

Good, we need some App guys learning from Satt. Hopefully they make it back to the mountain some day.

[311neers]

Hard to be the best when you have a coach that tells a lineman he's too tall for his liking. That player then accepts an offer from another school in NC. Especially when that lineman is a stud. Oh well.... I guess we can use the portal....wait....

Who was this? I hope SC isn't telling kids they are too tall for our liking yet they end up at NCST or UNC. We also have a few lineman that are 6"4+ so this doesnt make much sense. When are we going to get away from the zone blocking scheme and pull some guards and centers? Zone blocking seems to have run it's course as the front 7 knows whats coming at them. Have to keep the front 7 guessing at times with pulls and misdirections. maybe it's a personnel problem but i would love to see some pulling guards and shoot even pull a center

[AppStateNews]

Hard to be the best when you have a coach that tells a lineman he's too tall for his liking. That player then accepts an offer from another school in NC. Especially when that lineman is a stud. Oh well.... I guess we can use the portal....wait....

Who was this? I hope SC isn't telling kids they are too tall for our liking yet they end up at NCST or UNC. We also have a few lineman that are 6"4+ so this doesnt make much sense. When are we going to get away from the zone blocking scheme and pull some guards and centers? Zone blocking seems to have run it's course as the front 7 knows whats coming at them. Have to keep the front 7 guessing at times with pulls and misdirections. maybe it's a personnel problem but i would love to see some pulling guards and shoot even pull a center

Why do you think you can't pull in zone?

You can certainly have pulls in zone. Problem is they are struggling with base reads. You can't add more complexity to something when they can't figure out the most simple version.

A zone concept is hard to run. It takes a good line coach (which, IMO, we don't have right now). Hell, Cardwell wasn't a good coach either but he at least poured his heart and soul in to the guys and they would run through a wall for him.

I will also say not everything is on the line. Our RBs are also getting too close to the line before kicking out on the outside zones. This is why we've seen more pitches this year.

But, there is zero need to add more complexity to the blocking rules if they can't figure out the basic.