Listen to today's Around the Mountain-9-24-14

[EastHallApp]

Let's put this is perspective.

If on March 27, 2013 when we announced the move someone told you we'd sign the following deals within 18 months:

H & H w/ S. Miss., ODU, UNCC, Arkon, Wyoming, and UMass

and @ Clemson, UGA, and UT-k

would you have taken that deal?

No.

Southern Miss and UNCC are solid, if not spectacular. The rest of the H&H are just filler IMO. And the money games are the same types that we've been playing for years.

Changing a C to a B is not going to make people automatically beat the gates of KBS down. In fact I will go ahead and tell you that UNCC will have an easier time getting big names to come to their place. Just like ODU is getting big names. There is no incentive right now. We will have to prove ourselves first. Then teams will schedule us as a winnable FBS matchup that strengthens their schedule. We don't have the market or recruiting bait that others have.

Agree with all that. I'm not going to bash our athletic department because I don't know enough to say whether they could be doing better. This may be the best we can do for now. Just hope that changes soon.

[AppGrad78]

Follow the money. Scheduling will improve when our home games generate more revenue. That'll improve when we draw more fans. East Carolina plays a quality non-conference because it draws about twice as many fans to Dowdy-Ficklen as we do to Kidd Brewer.

[MtnMan09]

[quote="AppState89"]After thinking about it over night. I still don't like the fact we are playing UMASS, instead of Wake or ECU. But, these are just the growing pains we will have for a while since we just moved to FBS. It will be easier to get mid major teams to come to Boone, than a P5 team, even Wake. They will come in time, but it's just going to take a while. Hope I'm wrong, but ECU had the same issues years ago we are now with getting teams like UNC, NCSU, VT, WVU to play us at home. We will have to go there for a while..."

Recruits do not want to play the Wyomings, Akrons, and UMASS's of the CFB world. It seems that we are really pressing just so that we can say we have secured non-conference home and home series. I also do not expect that ECU, State, or even Wake is chomping at the bit to come to Boonetown to play before we earn it. However, now that we are FBS I think those schools (other than ECU since they were never scared) are more likely to play us on their turf. I have always been a fan of the Bobby Bowden mantra of "play anyone, anywhere." He built a nothing program into a national powerhouse by taking multiple tough road games in a season. It looks as if our friends down in the Stink are following the same strategy. State, Tech, and Navy all in one year? If I was a 2 to 4 star recruit that seems much more exciting/appealing than Clemson, ODU, Howard, and Wyoming. In 2015 they also have non-conferences against WVU and the UGA. I think So. Miss was a good pull, I'm just not convinced that home and homes with far flung, historically mediocre to bad FBS programs is the best way to build fan excitement or attract the best recruits. Just my 2 cents.

[Saint3333]

So UNCC is solid if not spectacular in your opinion, but you are disappointed in the scheduling to date????

I don't agree with either of those two statements individually and taken collectively I'm down right confused.

All three money games are within driving distance of our fanbase, that is a big difference. I challenge you to find a three year stretch in which that was been the case since the Wake days.

I rate UNCC higher than other fans might, because of non-football factors like media interest, recruiting benefit, playing a road game that's a reasonable day trip for in-state alumni, possibly developing a regional rivalry, etc. Certainly on-field, they are the weakest of the six teams at the moment and may well still be when we play them. But also, that would make it a near-certain FBS win, which isn't a bad thing either.

Having the money games within driving distance is nice. I just personally don't care who the money game is against unless and until we have a reasonable chance of winning or at least being competitive. If we're going to get blown out, it doesn't matter to me whether it's by Clemson, UGa, Michigan or LSU.

Bottom line, three of the six teams either moved to FBS or started from scratch within the past few years, while two others have little to no winning tradition in FBS. I have a hard time imagining many people in March 2013 saying, "Man, I wonder if this means we'll finally get to play Akron!"

So you pick the weakest of the 6 series to make your point, that is a straw man.

You want to play weaker FBS teams for an easy win, but then poo poo on UMass and Arkon.

Then complain about playing schools that moved up in the last three years. We just moved up, why should we not play those teams?

Your expectations are too high, the games will get better as we get better. I'd give the scheduling a solid B, nothing to get overly excited about but above average.

[EastHallApp]

So UNCC is solid if not spectacular in your opinion, but you are disappointed in the scheduling to date????

I don't agree with either of those two statements individually and taken collectively I'm down right confused.

All three money games are within driving distance of our fanbase, that is a big difference. I challenge you to find a three year stretch in which that was been the case since the Wake days.

I rate UNCC higher than other fans might, because of non-football factors like media interest, recruiting benefit, playing a road game that's a reasonable day trip for in-state alumni, possibly developing a regional rivalry, etc. Certainly on-field, they are the weakest of the six teams at the moment and may well still be when we play them. But also, that would make it a near-certain FBS win, which isn't a bad thing either.

Having the money games within driving distance is nice. I just personally don't care who the money game is against unless and until we have a reasonable chance of winning or at least being competitive. If we're going to get blown out, it doesn't matter to me whether it's by Clemson, UGa, Michigan or LSU.

Bottom line, three of the six teams either moved to FBS or started from scratch within the past few years, while two others have little to no winning tradition in FBS. I have a hard time imagining many people in March 2013 saying, "Man, I wonder if this means we'll finally get to play Akron!"

So you pick the weakest of the 6 series to make your point, that is a straw man.

You want to play weaker FBS teams for an easy win, but then poo poo on UMass and Arkon.

Then complain about playing schools that moved up in the last three years. We just moved up, why should we not play those teams?

Your expectations are too high, the games will get better as we get better. I'd give the scheduling a solid B, nothing to get overly excited about but above average.

I don't think Akron is the weakest of the six series. I would say it's UMass. But I could have used either of those, or Wyoming, or ODU, or even UNCC. Which is kind of the point.

I'm not saying we can't play any bottom-of-the-barrel teams. I understand that it's a necessity. I would have just hoped to have seen SOME more appealing series mixed in - if not a lower P5 like Wake, at least better G5 - ideally Marshall and/or ECU, but plenty of other possibilities out there. Or, maybe schedule a road game with a P5 that we actually have a reasonable chance to beat (though I understand the financial reasons for not doing so).

Basically I want us to schedule teams that bring SOMETHING to the table. A brand name, close proximity, recruiting benefit... whatever. To me, Wyoming and UMass bring nothing beyond just filling out the schedule, and the same for Akron unless we're going to start recruiting Ohio.

[EastHallApp]

Also, I don't understand why we're in such a rush to fill the schedule. If it's true that we need to establish ourselves and then we'll start scheduling better teams, then why not hold a spot for 2016/17 instead of adding UMass? And even more so, why add Wyoming to essentially fill a 2018/2021 date? What was the rush there?

[JTApps1]

Also, I don't understand why we're in such a rush to fill the schedule. If it's true that we need to establish ourselves and then we'll start scheduling better teams, then why not hold a spot for 2016/17 instead of adding UMass? And even more so, why add Wyoming to essentially fill a 2018/2021 date? What was the rush there?

Everyone is scheduling this far in advance so we can't just wait til the last minute, but as we saw with next years USM game things can still change. I too want a big name team in Boone, but I don't have a problem with playing several recent move ups like UMass, ODU, and UNCC. While we are playing very tough P5 games each we are also scheduling winnable games for where we are as a program at the moment. We are transiting into FBS so there is nothing wrong with scheduling similar schools.

[MtnMan09]

Also, I don't understand why we're in such a rush to fill the schedule. If it's true that we need to establish ourselves and then we'll start scheduling better teams, then why not hold a spot for 2016/17 instead of adding UMass? And even more so, why add Wyoming to essentially fill a 2018/2021 date? What was the rush there?

This was the whole crux of my post. There seems to be a rush to fill open spaces so that we can say we secured home and home series without much consideration for what the teams offer us other than bodies on a field. I'm not condeming scheduling ODU or UNCC as they upcoming on-the-field peer institutions now and they are within driving distance of the majority of our fan base. However, I just dont see the benefit of home and home series with a UMASS or an Akron. Do we really think thats going to develop into a nice OOC "rivalry," are our fans going to be excited about going to watch them at KBS anymore than we were excited about playing Northern Arizona, are recruits going to be pumped to fly to Fort Laramie for a game that probably won't be on TV so their parents can't watch? Probably not. We are in the bread basket of CFB with a plethora of mediocre to incredible teams. I just thought we might be able secure a few more games per season with opponents who have "drawing capacity" than the typical 1 money game we have always played. Its not unheard, of a few years ago as an FCS team we played LSU and Kansas in the same season. Still far flung locations but with a shot of getting on TV. Simply put, I think we can schedule better. The first few years might contain more road games but it will help build a solid FBS foundation.

[WVAPPeer]

What everyone needs to keep in mind - Scheduling is a two-way street --- just because we want to play Team A in Boone doesn't mean Team A wants to play us in Boone --- An analogy I use is this - You might really want to take the Homecoming Queen to the Prom, you might even ask her - But, if she doesn't accept you then move on to others ---

[goapps93]

We schedule FBS teams now so we don't have to schedule Campbells or other FCS teams at the last minute. I'd rather have home and homes with so-so FBS teams than pay FCS teams to come to Boone. Especially while we are one of the so-so FBS teams.

[Saint3333]

We aren't FCS any longer. If we get to 2015 and are trying to schedule 2016 games you really aren't going to like the results.

Crawl before you walk. We may not beat GS tonight, but in recruiting and scheduling I believe we are. I think our long-term strategy of redshirting and building will pay off as well.

App's OOC next two years:

2015
09/05 - Howard
09/12 - at Clemson
09/26 - at Old Dominion
10/03 - Wyoming

2016
09/03 - at Tennessee
09/10 - Old Dominion
09/24 - at Akron
10/29 - UMass

GS OOC next two years:

2015
09/05 - at West Virginia
09/12 - Western Michigan
09/19 - The Citadel
11/21 - at Georgia

2016
09/03 - Jacksonville
09/24 - at Western Michigan
10/08 - at Ole Miss
TBA - Savannah State

[moonshine]

It looks as if our friends down in the Stink are following the same strategy. State, Tech, and Navy all in one year? If I was a 2 to 4 star recruit that seems much more exciting/appealing than Clemson, ODU, Howard, and Wyoming. In 2015 they also have non-conferences against WVU and the UGA.

While I understand your reasoning, there is a flipside to that coin. If GSU doesn't win those marquee games, it puts them behind the 8 ball in regards to making it to a bowl game. Those recruits you're trying to covet like to play on winning teams who go bowling. Although not the most impressive schedule, it does set-up well for App to have winnable games that will get our Mountaineers into a bowl, thus attracting recruits.

[EastHallApp]

What everyone needs to keep in mind - Scheduling is a two-way street --- just because we want to play Team A in Boone doesn't mean Team A wants to play us in Boone --- An analogy I use is this - You might really want to take the Homecoming Queen to the Prom, you might even ask her - But, if she doesn't accept you then move on to others ---

Definitely. And maybe it's because we're new, Boone's remote, there are no recruits here, etc.

Still...

Missouri @ A-State
Miami @ A-State
Air Force @ Ga. State
Miss. St. @ South Alabama
NC State @ South Alabama
Oklahoma St. @ South Alabama
Navy @ Texas St.
Houston @ Texas St.
Duke @ Troy
NC State @ Troy
Boise St. @ Troy
Boise St. @ ULL
Wake Forest @ ULM

Georgia Tech @ MTSU
BYU @ MTSU
Vanderbilt @ MTSU (2x)
Duke @ MTSU
NC State @ ODU
Virginia Tech @ ODU (2x)
Colorado @ UMass
BC @ UMass
UConn @ UMass

[WVAPPeer]

We aren't FCS any longer. If we get to 2015 and are trying to schedule 2016 games you really aren't going to like the results.

Crawl before you walk. We may not beat GS tonight, but in recruiting and scheduling I believe we are. I think our long-term strategy of redshirting and building will pay off as well.

App's OOC next two years:

2015
09/05 - Howard
09/12 - at Clemson
09/26 - at Old Dominion
10/03 - Wyoming

2016
09/03 - at Tennessee
09/10 - Old Dominion
09/24 - at Akron
10/29 - UMass

GS OOC next two years:

2015
09/05 - at West Virginia
09/12 - Western Michigan
09/19 - The Citadel
11/21 - at Georgia

2016
09/03 - Jacksonville
09/24 - at Western Michigan
10/08 - at Ole Miss
TBA - Savannah State

I agree - we needed to go ahead and get a schedule set - things can change just like the SoMiss game for next year - Didn't realize GaSo had such a poor schedule for '16 - a non-scholly and probably the worst FCS program -

[Saint3333]

What everyone needs to keep in mind - Scheduling is a two-way street --- just because we want to play Team A in Boone doesn't mean Team A wants to play us in Boone --- An analogy I use is this - You might really want to take the Homecoming Queen to the Prom, you might even ask her - But, if she doesn't accept you then move on to others --- :mrgreen:

Definitely. And maybe it's because we're new, Boone's remote, there are no recruits here, etc.

Still...

Missouri @ A-State
Miami @ A-State
Air Force @ Ga. State
Miss. St. @ South Alabama
NC State @ South Alabama
Oklahoma St. @ South Alabama
Navy @ Texas St.
Houston @ Texas St.
Duke @ Troy
NC State @ Troy
Boise St. @ Troy
Boise St. @ ULL
Wake Forest @ ULM

Georgia Tech @ MTSU
BYU @ MTSU
Vanderbilt @ MTSU (2x)
Duke @ MTSU
NC State @ ODU
Virginia Tech @ ODU (2x)
Colorado @ UMass
BC @ UMass
UConn @ UMass

All of those programs have 2 or more years head start, in 2016 if we have scheduled a similar program for 2018 or beyond your complaints will be valid.

[EastHallApp]

Definitely. And maybe it's because we're new, Boone's remote, there are no recruits here, etc.

Still...

Missouri @ A-State
Miami @ A-State
Air Force @ Ga. State
Miss. St. @ South Alabama
NC State @ South Alabama
Oklahoma St. @ South Alabama
Navy @ Texas St.
Houston @ Texas St.
Duke @ Troy
NC State @ Troy
Boise St. @ Troy
Boise St. @ ULL
Wake Forest @ ULM

Georgia Tech @ MTSU
BYU @ MTSU
Vanderbilt @ MTSU (2x)
Duke @ MTSU
NC State @ ODU
Virginia Tech @ ODU (2x)
Colorado @ UMass
BC @ UMass
UConn @ UMass

All of those programs have 2 or more years head start, in 2016 if we have scheduled a similar program for 2018 or beyond your complaints will be valid.

Some of those games are for 2014, so if a two-year head-start is the explanation, we should start seeing those types of opponents in KBS by 2016. Except App is already full for 2016 due to the UMass addition. (Nevermind that some of those with the "head start" were starting from scratch, which isn't really the same as building on decades of FCS success with the accompanying fan support.)

And look at some of the names on that list. I'm just hoping for low-level P5 or high-level G5. Many of those teams are way beyond what I'd dare hope for in the foreseeable future. Yet those schools managed to get it done.

[EastHallApp]

Anyway Saint, look, I get what you're saying. It's probably better to keep expectations low and be realistic. I just can't say I find much to like about scheduling teams like UMass. JMO.

[JTApps1]

What everyone needs to keep in mind - Scheduling is a two-way street --- just because we want to play Team A in Boone doesn't mean Team A wants to play us in Boone --- An analogy I use is this - You might really want to take the Homecoming Queen to the Prom, you might even ask her - But, if she doesn't accept you then move on to others ---

Definitely. And maybe it's because we're new, Boone's remote, there are no recruits here, etc.

Still...

Missouri @ A-State
Miami @ A-State
Air Force @ Ga. State
Miss. St. @ South Alabama
NC State @ South Alabama
Oklahoma St. @ South Alabama
Navy @ Texas St.
Houston @ Texas St.
Duke @ Troy
NC State @ Troy
Boise St. @ Troy
Boise St. @ ULL
Wake Forest @ ULM

Georgia Tech @ MTSU
BYU @ MTSU
Vanderbilt @ MTSU (2x)
Duke @ MTSU
NC State @ ODU
Virginia Tech @ ODU (2x)
Colorado @ UMass
BC @ UMass
UConn @ UMass

Everyone of those teams play in stadiums that actually seat at least 30,000 except for ODU who is planning to expand and has very fertile recruiting grounds around them. It will be tough to get those teams until we expand seating.

[Saint3333]

Anyway Saint, look, I get what you're saying. It's probably better to keep expectations low and be realistic. I just can't say I find much to like about scheduling teams like UMass. JMO.

I'm not saying I like signing UMass either, but that is where we are in year two of a transition from FCS to FBS. The good news is they would have been the highlight of our OOC schedule just five years ago and now they are the lowlight.

I will have no problem in joining your complaints if we don't have a better schedule for 2018. As for 2014-2016, thus far they have met or exceeded my expectations from a scheduling perspective.

[EastHallApp]

Everyone of those teams play in stadiums that actually seat at least 30,000 except for ODU who is planning to expand and has very fertile recruiting grounds around them. It will be tough to get those teams until we expand seating.

Have discussed this with others on here before, and there's no way to know for sure how big a factor that is. However, IMO if teams want more visiting tickets than we normally offer, we should offer them 2-3 of the upper level sections behind the normal visitor's sections (208, 209, and maybe 210). That should put us very much in line with what comparable schools would offer, and frankly is probably more than some of these prospective visiting schools could sell.

At that point it's just a matter of overall attendance, and we already draw better than most other Sun Belt schools.