# of Clemson tickets sold?

[nomadb]

good post Saint

I'd also toss out that we are coming out of an historic recession. Way less disposable income for a lot of people and it's definitely cheaper to watch at home.

To me, watching on TV is not a replacement for going to the stadium....any stadium. I guess it's a replacement but not on an equal level. I will always prefer the live experience but have had to choose to watch on TV for financial and other reasons.

[hapapp]

So your assertion is that these fans, who probably drove 2-3 hours each way for one or more games earlier in the season, not only stopped attending but also stopped even paying attention to App football? And even now ~9 months later still haven't heard that we finished out strong and are looking to make a run this year? Really?

If you believe everyone who comes to football games actually "follows" the football program, you're a bit deluded.

Are you asserting that winning games, conference championships and garnering attention and hype doesn't draw bigger crowds? Because it sounds like that's exactly what you're asserting.

I believe the people you're talking about quit planning on making that 2-3 hour drive after the Liberty debacle. And I don't blame them.

If we somehow were to knock off Clemson in week 2, I would bet my car that we fill up Kidd Brewer the next home game. Do you disagree?

Why then the big crowd to start the 2005 season after losing to Western to close out 2004 and starting 1-1 to start the season?

I don't know. That's an excellent question. I'd love to hear your theory on that.

But, it doesn't change the fact that winning programs have full stadiums and losing programs don't.

There's no disputing that but we weren't coming off a great season heading into 2005. I do agree that winning a conference championship should help boost interest but it is disheartening to me that we seem to struggle to get folks to the home opener. We often do a decent walk up business but I fear the weather forecast may scare away our "fair weather" fans.

[hapapp]

what year was it when the game times changed from 12:30 to 3:30 and the tailgating policies loosened up?

It could have been 2005.

[hapapp]

My concern is that some of the decline is due to disagreement with the move to FBS. I don't have any evidence of this, and I don't even think it's likely, but if true could signal more of an extended lull as these fans come around to our new situation.

I really don't think that is the reason, but if it is then a solid season this year will pull those people back in. Two consecutive strong league finishes in years 1 and 2 should convince anyone who is open to facts.

Let' see what attendance is this Saturday. I'm still hopeful that it will be much better than some expect.

The arguments about "proving demand" seem tired to me. Those arguments were made years ago and have been followed by several years of over capacity attendance. Yes, we are down NOW, but the demand has already been proven. In a project that takes a couple of years to realize, waiting to Exceed capacit MORE to justify an expansion is actually waiting too late. Yes, this is a business, but businesses prepare forecasts and sales projections. No business in growth mode is going to limit its sales staff by capping their capacity at last year's sales.

In my opinion, the only valid argument against expansion is currently the fiscal argument. We need a plan to finance it...or better yet we need to find one of those coveted corporate donors to help fund the expansion. I think it's time to put the naming rights back into the mix and get busy. We have a new AD with a new staff and that is supposed to be their strength. Let's let them do their job and figure out how to fund the expansion that we NEED in a responsible manner. THAT is the hurdle.

The Demand has been there before and will be there again. I'm not saying we need to go to 40K but we need 28 - 30K of permanent seating. I absolutely agree with being fiscally responsible in how we do it. That might delay things, but I have ZERO doubt that the AD staff are already working on this.

It is not likely going to be cheaper to expand in the future and it would seem smart to actually put together a plan now rather than try and do it on the cheap down the road.

[AppDawg]

Saint - nail on head!

"Price point and ease of access"

I looked up ticket prices for each of the FBS schools in NC (not uncc for obvious reasons).

A paying adult can attend any game (conference or non-conference game) at UNC, Duke or Wake at full price Cheaper than the cost of a youth ticket to a non-conference game in Boone. Only NCSU and ECU had single game tickets priced more than ours.

If someone simply wants a football fix, why not go to a P5 game that likely is more accessible than driving hour/hours most likely to a G5 that costs more admission? Harsh reality, but we have to make our product accessible.

[97grad]

Putting together a plan is a good idea; I'm on record as against doing anything on the cheap again. Especially since I'd hope a portion of the next project will be to improve what we did on the last one. We just need to be smart about when we execute said plan.

[97grad]

Saint - nail on head!

"Price point and ease of access"

I looked up ticket prices for each of the FBS schools in NC (not uncc for obvious reasons).

A paying adult can attend any game (conference or non-conference game) at UNC, Duke or Wake at full price Cheaper than the cost of a youth ticket to a non-conference game in Boone. Only NCSU and ECU had single game tickets priced more than ours.

If someone simply wants a football fix, why not go to a P5 game that likely is more accessible than driving hour/hours most likely to a G5 that costs more admission? Harsh reality, but we have to make our product accessible.

Huh? I just checked the Duke site and the cheapest single game ticket looked like Central at $35 with the rest in the $50 range.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml? ... EM_ID=4200

Regardless, I don't think we're in competition with these schools. Casual fans wanting a "football fix" aren't going to argue so much about an extra $5-10 as they are about having to be in a car for 2-3 hours each way. I do agree that we likely are in competition with ESPN3 though.

[Saint3333]

It is not likely going to be cheaper to expand in the future and it would seem smart to actually put together a plan now rather than try and do it on the cheap down the road.

If we expand now given fiscal restraints it will be done on the cheap, it will have to be, the funds aren't available.

This is my BIGGEST fear with the expansion discussion. IMO when we did the east expansion we did it on the cheap, those access ramps on the side of the east expansion are an eye sore.

The next plan needs to have two or three steps planned out and done right.

Often times people take my posts as anti-expansion, they aren't. No more short-term fixes.

[AppDawg]

Saint - nail on head!

"Price point and ease of access"

I looked up ticket prices for each of the FBS schools in NC (not uncc for obvious reasons).

A paying adult can attend any game (conference or non-conference game) at UNC, Duke or Wake at full price Cheaper than the cost of a youth ticket to a non-conference game in Boone. Only NCSU and ECU had single game tickets priced more than ours.

If someone simply wants a football fix, why not go to a P5 game that likely is more accessible than driving hour/hours most likely to a G5 that costs more admission? Harsh reality, but we have to make our product accessible.

Huh? I just checked the Duke site and the cheapest single game ticket looked like Central at $35 with the rest in the $50 range.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml? ... EM_ID=4200

Regardless, I don't think we're in competition with these schools. Casual fans wanting a "football fix" aren't going to argue so much about an extra $5-10 as they are about having to be in a car for 2-3 hours each way. I do agree that we likely are in competition with ESPN3 though.

You are right about Duke. I looked at it the other night and was going off memory. Its UNC and Wake that are cheaper except for maybe a game or two that are priced the same as us.

[Longrifle28]

I heard UNC was offering free AFAM degrees to the first 1,000 persons that showed up....

[nomadb]

I heard UNC was offering free AFAM degrees to the first 1,000 persons that showed up....

well....you don't actually have to ***show up***....just register

[Gonzo]

So clearly none of you think Coastal need expand prior to their first year in the Belt?

Coastal needs to increase to at least 15,000 per FBS minimums. Although it can be debated how often that's enforced.

Then why are they expanding to 25k?

[Gonzo]

I'm afraid the argument for additional seating isn't going to be helped by attendance this weekend. Prove me wrong App Nation!

And again, isolated bad draws don't change the fact that we need to expand.

Two things. Unfortunately this can no longer be termed isolated. Second this isn't a court of law, this is business. The burden of proof will be on the side that wants to expand.

Until evidence suggests we should expand my take of this subject will not change.

It is opening weekend and half of the east side seats are unsold two days before the game. I've said we need to break the 10k season ticket mark to expand, but the single game sales are even down. Im sure you will come up with half a dozen excuses, but that is all they will be. We need results.

I hope I feel the need to sign on here on Sunday and eat crow, I truly do.

They'll be 17 in my crew, looking forward to the game.

It's not a court of law. Nor is it any dynamic in which two sides would make an argument at all. It's an administrative decision.

To me, if we have just one game a year where we need more seats it's time to expand.

[Gonzo]

For the record I'm not suggesting we add 10,000 seats as soon as possible. Just move the track and bowl in the Owens side. The rendering we've been seeing for 3 years minus the third deck on the "State" side would be perfect.

[Dmanuhone]

So what can we really do as individuals? Come to home games instead of giving our money to Klempsom or who ever. Bring some friends with you. Join the YOSEF Club.

[NewApp]

So your assertion is that these fans, who probably drove 2-3 hours each way for one or more games earlier in the season, not only stopped attending but also stopped even paying attention to App football? And even now ~9 months later still haven't heard that we finished out strong and are looking to make a run this year? Really?

If you believe everyone who comes to football games actually "follows" the football program, you're a bit deluded.

Are you asserting that winning games, conference championships and garnering attention and hype doesn't draw bigger crowds? Because it sounds like that's exactly what you're asserting.

I believe the people you're talking about quit planning on making that 2-3 hour drive after the Liberty debacle. And I don't blame them.

If we somehow were to knock off Clemson in week 2, I would bet my car that we fill up Kidd Brewer the next home game. Do you disagree?

Why then the big crowd to start the 2005 season after losing to Western to close out 2004 and starting 1-1 to start the season?

I don't know. That's an excellent question. I'd love to hear your theory on that.

But, it doesn't change the fact that winning programs have full stadiums and losing programs don't.

There's no disputing that but we weren't coming off a great season heading into 2005. I do agree that winning a conference championship should help boost interest but it is disheartening to me that we seem to struggle to get folks to the home opener. We often do a decent walk up business but I fear the weather forecast may scare away our "fair weather" fans.

I believe 2005 was the year App got trendous pub in the Charlotte and Charlotte area media. I was surrounded by Piedmont area fans, many of whom had never attended an App game previous. Non App people were talking about us in the coffee shop.

[Saint3333]

For the record I'm not suggesting we add 10,000 seats as soon as possible. Just move the track and bowl in the Owens side. The rendering we've been seeing for 3 years minus the third deck on the "State" side would be perfect.

You are oversimplifying the situation, who is paying for it and paying for it to be done right?

[hapapp]

It is not likely going to be cheaper to expand in the future and it would seem smart to actually put together a plan now rather than try and do it on the cheap down the road.

If we expand now given fiscal restraints it will be done on the cheap, it will have to be, the funds aren't available.

This is my BIGGEST fear with the expansion discussion. IMO when we did the east expansion we did it on the cheap, those access ramps on the side of the east expansion are an eye sore.

The next plan needs to have two or three steps planned out and done right.

Often times people take my posts as anti-expansion, they aren't. No more short-term fixes.

I wasn't calling for expansion now. But I do believe we need to be planning for it.

[Gonzo]

For the record I'm not suggesting we add 10,000 seats as soon as possible. Just move the track and bowl in the Owens side. The rendering we've been seeing for 3 years minus the third deck on the "State" side would be perfect.

You are oversimplifying the situation, who is paying for it and paying for it to be done right?

I really don't think I am. It's a building project. College campuses are in a constant state of construction.

Who is paying for it: Students, fans, and tax payers.

Why? To enhance the front porch of ASU.

Done right? I don't know if your standards are attainable even if we had 33k for every single game. I think my suggestion would look awesome.

[appfan83]

If I recall correctly. The rendering also showed renovation of Owens Field House and adding a dorm.